143 réponses à ce sujet

[Ortaya Alevli]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

While being indifferent to one side is fine in theory, console and pc games have become linked to a degree that what happens to one will affect the other. 

Yes, but I'm only concerned with those effects that manifest on the PC.

But console players don't have the luxury of using mods to manually spec their companions. So they have to make do with what's included in the core game.

BioWare also don't have the luxury of being indifferent when it comes to console players. They need to keep console players in mind.while deciding what to include in the core game and what not to. If they rely on mod solutions during the decision-making process, we're screwed.

So, unless you don't expect your ideas to have any impact at all, mentioning the mods as a solution won't add your opinions any weight.

[Wulfram]

If Bioware do a better job of balancing, and of explaining what the various stuff actually does, respeccing would be a lot less necessary

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

While being indifferent to one side is fine in theory, console and pc games have become linked to a degree that what happens to one will affect the other. 

Yes, but I'm only concerned with those effects that manifest on the PC.

But console players don't have the luxury of using mods to manually spec their companions. So they have to make do with what's included in the core game.

BioWare also don't have the luxury of being indifferent when it comes to console players. They need to keep console players in mind.while deciding what to include in the core game and what not to. If they rely on mod solutions during the decision-making process, we're screwed.

So, unless you don't expect your ideas to have any impact at all, mentioning the mods as a solution won't add your opinions any weight.

Console players might have different preferences from mine (or from PC gamers generally).  For example, maybe the console players wouldn't mind a lore-breaking respec feature.  As such, they can have one.  I don't care.

I don't want the PC version to contain such a feature because it would impact other aspects of the game's design, and any PC players who want to respec can use mods to do so.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Console players might have different preferences from mine (or from PC gamers generally).  For example, maybe the console players wouldn't mind a lore-breaking respec feature.  As such, they can have one.  I don't care.

I don't want the PC version to contain such a feature because it would impact other aspects of the game's design, and any PC players who want to respec can use mods to do so.

I'm sure it sounds alright in theory, but it'd be rather difficult for the company to justify such a decision in people's eyes, don't you think? "We put a respec option in the console version but not in the PC version since we figured third party modifications could be utilized for that purpose." Imagine the rage. Especially considering even the simplest of interface variations across platforms can cause strong reactions, whether they make sense or not.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I'm sure it sounds alright in theory, but it'd be rather difficult for the company to justify such a decision in people's eyes, don't you think? "We put a respec option in the console version but not in the PC version since we figured third party modifications could be utilized for that purpose." Imagine the rage.

Players on different platforms don't want the same things.  Even BioWare thinks they want different things, given the auto-attack differences in DA2.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Players on different platforms don't want the same things.  Even BioWare thinks they want different things, given the auto-attack differences in DA2.

So I understand, but that's mostly related to interfacial differences and as such easy to explain. Respec tomes, on the other hand, can easily be implemented in the exact same manner on all platforms.

I'm not saying you can't find a way to enable auto-attack on consoles, but you can easily excuse yourself for not doing so. The same hardly holds true for such a feature as respec tomes.

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
S&S warriors are that much better than rogues? You can have this combination if the Warden is a S&S warrior himself, although Wynne's starting spells aren't all that great.

For my playstyle, in DA, yes. I was speaking specifically about respect options versus the vanilla, though. 

Essentially, having two S&S warriors allows you to physically alter the battlefield by drawing aggro, with your mages working as artillery. But I don't use tactics, at all (always pause & play) and dislike rogues because they require an incredibly amount of micromanaging to backstab.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I'm not saying you can't find a way to enable auto-attack on consoles, but you can easily excuse yourself for not doing so. The same hardly holds true for such a feature as respec tomes.

By your reasoning BioWare should include the click-to-attack option on the PC, rather than deny them a feature that's available to the consoles.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I'm not saying you can't find a way to enable auto-attack on consoles, but you can easily excuse yourself for not doing so. The same hardly holds true for such a feature as respec tomes.

By your reasoning BioWare should include the click-to-attack option on the PC, rather than deny them a feature that's available to the consoles.

Not really. Like I said, this is an interface issue, and different versions of the game may have differences in handling the player input. You're using your mouse in the PC version and a gamepad in the console version. Which is a proper excuse for doing the same thing (attacking your enemy) differently.

Taking away the respec option from one version, however, makes you unable to do the same thing in that version.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Not really. Like I said, this is an interface issue, and different versions of the game may have differences in handling the player input. You're using your mouse in the PC version and a gamepad in the console version. Which is a proper excuse for doing the same thing (attacking your enemy) differently.

That's like saying Diablo wouldn't have been meaningfully different if there had been an auto-attack rather than a click-to-swing.

It's a fundamental gameplay difference.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 07 octobre 2010 - 02:56 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Not really. Like I said, this is an interface issue, and different versions of the game may have differences in handling the player input. You're using your mouse in the PC version and a gamepad in the console version. Which is a proper excuse for doing the same thing (attacking your enemy) differently.

That's like saying Diablo wouldn't have been meaningfully different if there had been an auto-attack rather than a click-to-swing.

It's a fundamental gameplay difference.

It is. But you can still kill your enemy with or without auto-attack. It's just a different way to accomplish the same thing. A more practical one, but that's beside my point.

[Kail Ashton]

I'd definetly prefer it for followers, wynne & zevran are painfully good examples of why we either need a respec book in the main game or the option to set their stats upon their joining

[ladydesire]

Kail Ashton wrote...

I'd definetly prefer it for followers, wynne & zevran are painfully good examples of why we either need a respec book in the main game or the option to set their stats upon their joining

What was wrong with their stats; for that matter, what was wrong with the stats of any of the companions in Origins or Awakening? I always viewed their initial stat distributions as an example of what Bioware balanced the four difficulty settings around.

[PsyrenY]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

You can, though again there's a lore-based explanation for that. Shepard has effectively been rebuilt between the two games, arguably as a cyborg (that's never really made clear).

You're using THAT to argue for lore-based respeccing? So when my Vanguard Shepard from ME1 becomes an Infiltrator in ME2 in the project that was supposed to bring me back "exactly as I was", the lore supports that?

Hell, even the cybernetic implants independent of the respec ****** all over the lore, since I'm pretty sure Shepard wasn't part-machine in ME1.

It's simple story and gameplay segregation. Deal with it.

[Reaverwind]

ladydesire wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

I'd definetly prefer it for followers, wynne & zevran are painfully good examples of why we either need a respec book in the main game or the option to set their stats upon their joining

What was wrong with their stats; for that matter, what was wrong with the stats of any of the companions in Origins or Awakening? I always viewed their initial stat distributions as an example of what Bioware balanced the four difficulty settings around.

Everything. Ever pick up Oghren at a high level only to be frustrated by the inability to continue his development as a 2-handed warrior for several levels because of nonsensical stat distribution? Ditto for Wynne.

[JrayM16]

Reaverwind wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

I'd definetly prefer it for followers, wynne & zevran are painfully good examples of why we either need a respec book in the main game or the option to set their stats upon their joining

What was wrong with their stats; for that matter, what was wrong with the stats of any of the companions in Origins or Awakening? I always viewed their initial stat distributions as an example of what Bioware balanced the four difficulty settings around.

Everything. Ever pick up Oghren at a high level only to be frustrated by the inability to continue his development as a 2-handed warrior for several levels because of nonsensical stat distribution? Ditto for Wynne.

Yes.

[PsyrenY]

The first thing I did in Awakening when I picked up Nathaniel was turn him to a Bard/Ranger like I had Leliana as. I hate babysitting rogues to keep them alive, and if they do a little less damage standing back and shooting, at least they do more than they would trampled under a Hurlock's hobnailed boots. I also had a capable tank long before recruiting Justice thanks to his Bear summon.

Also, Howe Bow is the ****.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 07 octobre 2010 - 07:47 .

[Doyle41]

How is respec lore breaking? I would think if sombody were capable to summon animal (ranger) to aid them, they would certainly be capable of learning to be an assassin or duelist. I don't think lore is a legitimite argument. It basically comes down to difficulty. Seeing that this is a single player game, respec option doesn't effect anybody other than the player. Seems to me that sombody is a recovering tome user and can't resist the temptation of having the option available.

[Kileyan]

It isn't that hard. It would be an option. You would never get to a major story part of the game, that would force you to drink a respec potion. Use it if it enhanced your enjoyment of the game, don't use it if it offends your rpg sensibilities.

This is a single player game, if you are worrying about what other people are doing with their game, you are doing it wrong.

Play the game the way  you want to play it. Quit worrying if everyone else is being forced to play the game you want them to play it.

[ladydesire]

Doyle41 wrote...

How is respec lore breaking? I would think if sombody were capable to summon animal (ranger) to aid them, they would certainly be capable of learning to be an assassin or duelist. I don't think lore is a legitimite argument. It basically comes down to difficulty. Seeing that this is a single player game, respec option doesn't effect anybody other than the player. Seems to me that sombody is a recovering tome user and can't resist the temptation of having the option available.

It does affect me simply because I will have to see posts complaing about the (lack of) difficulty if a respec option is available. It's lore-breaking when a companion's dialogs and backstory are built around them having a certain specialization and you remove that specialization from them entirely, simply because you don't think it fits in with your view of the character.

[Nerevar-as]

ladydesire wrote...

Doyle41 wrote...

How is respec lore breaking? I would think if sombody were capable to summon animal (ranger) to aid them, they would certainly be capable of learning to be an assassin or duelist. I don't think lore is a legitimite argument. It basically comes down to difficulty. Seeing that this is a single player game, respec option doesn't effect anybody other than the player. Seems to me that sombody is a recovering tome user and can't resist the temptation of having the option available.

It does affect me simply because I will have to see posts complaing about the (lack of) difficulty if a respec option is available. It's lore-breaking when a companion's dialogs and backstory are built around them having a certain specialization and you remove that specialization from them entirely, simply because you don't think it fits in with your view of the character.

If it´s there, it´s optional (and I won´t be using it), I don´t think gameplay will be altered so that you have to respec at some moment. And I thought you can only change the class evolution, which now has less/none crossskills, not the class itself. Specializations can be tricky. Morrigan is a SS, it had a little plot/lore importance, but many people would rather respec her than take the effort to learn to exploit SS properly.

[asaiasai]

I have read quite a bit about how a respec option muight break the game but so far none of the objections make any sense,what difference does it make if the option is in the game for a respec? You feel it is a lore breaking aspect where as some might feel it is just fine, options are nice in that the player can decide just what they want to use and pass on the rest. I myself preffer options i may or may not use still be present in the game, i will not dictate to another player how they should play the game. My feeling is that if you or other folks do not like the respec option do not use it, just because it is there does not mean you have to use it. As i said in my earlier post if it is a matter of the option being provided and your not strong enough to resist the temptation to utalize the option, that is not anybodie's fault but your own. As such it is a problem that for the most part is one on your end, so keep it there on your end. You are entitled to your opinion when something will definatly break the game, like fixed ammo, or like sprint use crouch/cover all assigned to one key did to ME2. Those things that broke ME2 are not choices the player can excercise, as such are game breaking. But having the option to respec a character at anytime the player chooses does not break the game, damage the lore, or hamper the players choice in the game, because this is up to the player. The game is a single player experience, and my experience should be different from yours, that is IMHO what provides depth to a game.

You can run around in the best gear in DAO with your skill level set on insanity complaining the game is too easy, these same folks want the game to be made more difficult. The truth is they need to change the options they use, as in use gear with no buffs then tell me how easy the game is. You as the player have the option to use good gear or gear with out buffs, but it would not be a better game if Bioware decided to satisfy those individuals by removing all the good gear from the game entirely.

Conceptually it is the same, the game is as difficult or not as the player chooses it to be. Choice is always a good thing. The only people who do not like choice are those who stand to gain from lack of choice, are too weak to avoid the other choice, or to indecisive to arrive at a decision at all. Why should we allow those people to get to the front of the line?

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 09 octobre 2010 - 06:39 .

[Dubya75]

JeCy108 wrote...

this isnt an MMO,,  the game can be finished with skipping dialoge in basically a single day..  

no need for respec..  Start a new game..

NOT SO. You will not be able to skip conversations and cutscenes in DA2.
I'd love to see you finish DA2 in a day. If you do, that means you have to skip all the side quests and basically race through the game without stopping to appreciate it.
This is an RPG, not a racing game.

Modifié par Dubya75, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:10 .

[Naitaka]

If DA2 is anything even remotely like DA:O in terms of bug/glitches, respec in the core game would certainly be welcomed especially for the console players. I only play on PC myself, but I can easily imagine how frustrating it is to work toward a talent only to find it doesn't even function properly.

[Dubya75]

Naitaka wrote...

If DA2 is anything even remotely like DA:O in terms of bug/glitches, respec in the core game would certainly be welcomed especially for the console players. I only play on PC myself, but I can easily imagine how frustrating it is to work toward a talent only to find it doesn't even function properly.

Absolutely agree.
Oh well, I think we've missed the "add more features" boat so we'll have to hope for the best. If respec is not available in the game from the outset, we could always nag Bioware until they release a DLC to do it.