8 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

 I am a TVTropes fan.  I know that Tropes Are Not Bad.

That being said, this whole dead ex/deadbeat dad trope?  Let me list out the ways in which it exists in BioWare's games.

Jaheira: romanceable, dead ex
Coran: deadbeat dad
Cernd: dead ex, deadbeat dad
Kivan: dead ex
Sarevok: dead ex (the presumption is that Tamoko dies somehow even if the PC does not kill her)
Aribeth: romanceable, dead ex
Aarin Gend: romanceable, dead ex (one that he killed himself, no less ><)
Valen Shadowbreath: romanceable, dead ex
Carth Onasi: romanceable, dead ex, deadbeat dad
Sky: romanceable, dead ex, deadbeat dad
Kaidan Alenko: doesn't fit the trope strictly speaking, but he does compare the PC to his estranged ex
Zevran: romanceable, dead ex
Thane Krios: romanceable, dead ex, deadbeat dad

I understand that some tropes are used a lot in RPGs.  I'm fine with that.  But this particular trope (or trope pair) pops up in romanceable NPCs (especially the ones for females) with annoying regularity.  I know it's meant to elicit sympathy, and it did the first few times.  But honestly, I don't think I'm the only one who's just plain sick of this.  It doesn't elicit sympathy--it elicits facestabbery.  Thane died because of it.  Poor Thane 

I also understand that this is metagaming, but you can't tell me that seeing the same storytelling device over and over again doesn't affect the player.  So please, for DA2, can we have a bit of a break from this?  There are plenty of other tropes out there--give them some love 

[Sheryl Chee]

No dead ex? Gotcha.

LI: Hey, you remind me of this girl I once fell in love with.
PC: Oh, yeah? What happened to her? She's not dead, is she?
LI: Dead?! Of course not. It just didn't work out. She was kind of high maintainance. We still hook up once in a while. You don't mind, do you?

Modifié par Sheryl Chee, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Sheryl Chee]

Tinxa wrote...

I'd like to see an evil backstabbing ex for a change.

Marjolaine?

[David Gaider]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I also understand that this is metagaming, but you can't tell me that seeing the same storytelling device over and over again doesn't affect the player.  So please, for DA2, can we have a bit of a break from this?  There are plenty of other tropes out there--give them some love 

Seriously?

Zevran mentions his former lover once, and it's in the context of "I feel guilty for having killed her" and not "I miss her so much" and that's the only one in all of DAO and we STILL have the "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO OVERRRRUUSSED!" thing going on?

Get. Over. It.

Modifié par David Gaider, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:18 .

[David Gaider]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I'm not talking about any one specific case, but rather its consistent use across multiple titles.  Of course I understand that no one writer is responsible across titles, but it does get used in a lot of BioWare's games with some consistency.  Kind of like Obsidian and their trope of EVERYTHING IS HORRIBLE 

Uh-huh.

Well, we'll see if we can come up with something just for those with jaded sensibilities, so they can get off the couch and stop taking laudanum to dull the pain of enduring so many thousands of tropes. We will come up with something so refreshingly new that TVTropes will be forced to create a new category and somewhere, a hipster will smile.

Or not. But it's fun to think about.


EDIT: Not that I necessarily disagree with the spirit of what you've said-- I thought we had avoided it in DA, but then someone brought up the Zevran thing like they had been watching, just waiting for it and... OMIGAWD! THERE IT IS! When the ex wasn't even really his issue. It was the fact he killed someone who didn't deserve it. Was she his lover? Sure... but so what? The insistence of some people on using reductionism to accuse us of lazy writing is ironic only because it's lazy criticism.

Modifié par David Gaider, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:39 .

[David Gaider]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I never said tropes were bad, nor did I ask for something wildly original.  I generally love your games, stories, and characters even if I make fun of some of them   (Making fun of RPG characters is like kicking one of those pink garden flamingos...I just can't resist)  I just think something different would be nice.  I entertain no illusions about you guys taking my suggestions.

Oh, I know. I get the reductionism thing a lot, though, mostly from people who think it's the equivalent of clever criticism. Not that this is what you're doing, so I suppose it's unfair to lump you in with others. Sorry.

We like to do different things, ourselves. Not necessarily between all our projects, but for writers working on one project and the next. People who seem to be waiting for any element of what we do that happens to be similar to something else, and then pouncing on that as if they've discovered a weakness, can be a little bizarre. I can't say I honestly care about it that much.

[David Gaider]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Wouldn't Zevran's story arc worked just as well with a trusted friend?

Err... no? This was someone he presumably cared about. Even a little. At some point you'd have to stop and ask yourself "Wow... am I some kind of unfeeling monster?" Even so, it could have just been a friend, sure. But what difference does it make, honestly? None at all, except to people who are still moaning about Carth.

Why specifically do all these poor lads and lasses have dead exes? 

Because they have exes. And some of them are dead. Generally it's different circumstances-- so the question really is: why wouldn't they have any? Just to avoid setting off the jaded? "Let's stay away from the ex thing specifically even if it makes sense"? Umm... no.

[Mary Kirby]

Due to Thane's overwhelming popularity, we decided that every romance in DA2 should have a dead former lover, spouse, fling, crush, or missed connection. In fact, each romanceable character in DA2 has more dead exes than the last!

[David Gaider]

pizoxuat wrote...
Mostly I am bothered by how little space there must be left in the fridge all these mothers/wives/girlfriends/daughters are getting stuffed into.

I'll have you know there is equal space in our fridge for dead people of both genders, thank you very much.

...okay, that was weird.

Modifié par David Gaider, 05 octobre 2010 - 07:02 .