51 réponses à ce sujet

[Tonya777]

For $60 paid , **** closure I want the game to be seemingly endless lol

[Benndak]

It isn't much of a debate on Tonya's side, heh.

[Cursek]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

I can partfully agree that Oblivion's endgame has too much freedom, but you have to agree that we could use more leverage than 'they lived happily ever after' /qeue credits.


I think the DLC of Fallout 3 is a much better example of extra bang for the buck.

I never played the Fallout DLC's.

I like it when a game actually ends. It gives me a feeling of closure. Oblivion jsut goes on and on forever. You can do absolutely everything in the game, and you still end up free to roam, thinking there should be something to do but there just isn't.  It's mundane, as I said. That's my take anyways.

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

[Mordern]

I'm all for the letting you finish sidequests bit (since the epilogue is supposed to take place before the main quest), but I don't think that anything short of an actual sequel would be anything but anticlimatic.



Seriously. This is one of the few games where I actually felt like the actions I took and the choices I made had actual reprecussions on the gameworld. To just roam around pointlessly killing bandits after that would be a major letdown.

[Cursek]

Mordern wrote...

I'm all for the letting you finish sidequests bit (since the epilogue is supposed to take place before the main quest), but I don't think that anything short of an actual sequel would be anything but anticlimatic.

Seriously. This is one of the few games where I actually felt like the actions I took and the choices I made had actual reprecussions on the gameworld. To just roam around pointlessly killing bandits after that would be a major letdown.

I can agree with you, and with others that too much of a bad thing, but I still feel we should have a little more freedom, what I'm hoping for is a lot of DLC. That way, the content will always be more plotting than killing guards, you still have new content to do, and if you don't want to you don't have to.

[Reiella]

Dragon Age Origins is not a sandbox game.  If you want a Sandbox, I'd suggest Oblivion or Fallout 3 + Broken Steel.  After all, you can keep playing them still, even if you have already beaten them .

[Tonya777]

So what? You could just make the personal choice to no longer play the game after beating it



If you let people explore the game and play in the game after beating it then everyone wins



If someone thinks the game should end there , then it can for them all they have to do is simply not play beyond that , whereas everyone else could still enjoy the game with the character they beat it with

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

[Reiella]

Tonya777 wrote...

So what? You could just make the personal choice to no longer play the game after beating it

If you let people explore the game and play in the game after beating it then everyone wins

If someone thinks the game should end there , then it can for them all they have to do is simply not play beyond that , whereas everyone else could still enjoy the game with the character they beat it with

It weakens the intregrity of the main quest, and seriously degrades the ability for side quests to be rational.  It drastically changes the style of the game and does alot to invalidate certain plot choices in the game [which some folks already complain about happening so oh well ].

Personally, I also see it really diminishing the importance of the Origin stories and further reducing liklihood someone may be inclined to try them.

Then there's the whole gameplay balancing act, which Bethesda still has [and will always have] trouble with getting folks happy with.

[Mordern]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

Pretty much this.

In Oblivion, no matter what I do, there will always be random bandits hanging around in forests, there will always be vampires hiding in cave lairs, there will always be necromancers doing Evil Things. That's great if you like to run around killing them repeatedly, but for me it just completely undermines any sense of closure that you might feel, even after the main story is done.

In DA:O, I may not have made the world a wonderful place to live in and given it a happily ever after, but I did what I had to do in order to stop the Blight and when the game ends I feel like I've actually made a difference and changed Ferelden. That vanishes completely if the game then just says "Oh yeah, but the Darkspawn are totally back feel free to keep on killing them forever."

[Tonya777]

Actually they said the darkspawn never go away , they are apparently simply a species that live on the planet they are on



After I play through this game as a mage and (maybe) as a warrior too now I might go play oblivion all over again actually



I actually never bought some of the DLC for oblivion , the horse armor (who cares?) but then also that "The orrery" thing and then also the uhhh other thing the 800 point quest that ISN'T shivering isles



I might go ahead and do that , plus theres still the acheivement for if I finish shivering isles the other way instead of the path I picked the 1st time , so I guess I could maybe do that if I get bored and can't think of any new games to buy

[Cursek]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

LOL, again, you can read the main book and have YOUR idea of the plot end, what I'm talking about is Expanded Universe books that add to the world of the story without making you feel like you missed something important.

And for some reason you keep bringing up Oblivion? It's an old example now, and barely justifies my part of the discussion supporting my large extra content rather than smack random bandits. I want quests and side plots explained, not look 500 corpes so I can buy some runes.

[Reiella]

Tonya777 wrote...

Actually they said the darkspawn never go away , they are apparently simply a species that live on the planet they are on

After I play through this game as a mage and (maybe) as a warrior too now I might go play oblivion all over again actually

I actually never bought some of the DLC for oblivion , the horse armor (who cares?) but then also that "The orrery" thing and then also the uhhh other thing the 800 point quest that ISN'T shivering isles

I might go ahead and do that , plus theres still the acheivement for if I finish shivering isles the other way instead of the path I picked the 1st time , so I guess I could maybe do that if I get bored and can't think of any new games to buy

Knights of the Nine, to be honest, I found both the Stone Prisoner and Warden's Keep a bit more satisfying that Knights of the Nine, but to each their own .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I see no need for an endgame roamfest. Never liked it. If you play thoroughly enough, there's nothing to do and it feels very anticlimactic.

I just defeated an Archdemon!! Okay, now I need to go kill a bandit in Denerim then sell some gear. <- lame

A good point. But the success of a game always lies in its options. IF you don't like it, and rightfully so imo, then you don't have to continue. But some others do, why not let them?

[Mordern]

Cursek wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

LOL, again, you can read the main book and have YOUR idea of the plot end, what I'm talking about is Expanded Universe books that add to the world of the story without making you feel like you missed something important.

And for some reason you keep bringing up Oblivion? It's an old example now, and barely justifies my part of the discussion supporting my large extra content rather than smack random bandits. I want quests and side plots explained, not look 500 corpes so I can buy some runes.

But what sort of quest could possibly trump the climax of killing the Archdemon? And even if it did, how do they take into account all the possible endings? Including some where the main character ends up, you know, dead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There will be nothing short of a true sequel that will take place after the main quest. Even a true expansion (Old School expansion, not DLC) would be impractical, considering that they'd have to somehow make a quest even more impressive than slaying an archdemon and let you continue playing in the game world without causing you to lose the feeling that you've altered the world in some tangible way during your quest.

The end is supposed to be the climax. What everythings been leading to. The inevitable confrontation that you will potentially sacrifice your life to resolve. That whole thing gets cheapened if right after, they send you off to go do (insert quest here).

[Cursek]

Mordern wrote...

Cursek wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

LOL, again, you can read the main book and have YOUR idea of the plot end, what I'm talking about is Expanded Universe books that add to the world of the story without making you feel like you missed something important.

And for some reason you keep bringing up Oblivion? It's an old example now, and barely justifies my part of the discussion supporting my large extra content rather than smack random bandits. I want quests and side plots explained, not look 500 corpes so I can buy some runes.

But what sort of quest could possibly trump the climax of killing the Archdemon? And even if it did, how do they take into account all the possible endings? Including some where the main character ends up, you know, dead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There will be nothing short of a true sequel that will take place after the main quest. Even a true expansion (Old School expansion, not DLC) would be impractical, considering that they'd have to somehow make a quest even more impressive than slaying an archdemon and let you continue playing in the game world without causing you to lose the feeling that you've altered the world in some tangible way during your quest.

The end is supposed to be the climax. What everythings been leading to. The inevitable confrontation that you will potentially sacrifice your life to resolve. That whole thing gets cheapened if right after, they send you off to go do (insert quest here).

That's exactly why you don't have to do it? Are you listening? I don't think you are.

The point of the extended content isn't to top the original conflict, it's to expand the world the conflict is in.

[Reiella]

Mordern wrote...

But what sort of quest could possibly trump the climax of killing the Archdemon? And even if it did, how do they take into account all the possible endings? Including some where the main character ends up, you know, dead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There will be nothing short of a true sequel that will take place after the main quest. Even a true expansion (Old School expansion, not DLC) would be impractical, considering that they'd have to somehow make a quest even more impressive than slaying an archdemon and let you continue playing in the game world without causing you to lose the feeling that you've altered the world in some tangible way during your quest.

The end is supposed to be the climax. What everythings been leading to. The inevitable confrontation that you will potentially sacrifice your life to resolve. That whole thing gets cheapened if right after, they send you off to go do (insert quest here).

Well a side-romp that shows the resolution differently.  Of course, that mandates a certain course of action in the main quest, which isn't too pleasant.  Although this has been a ridiculously short blight.

[Kalfear]

superfeds26 wrote...

the ending of the story is the ending....the "epilogue" is just there for any future DLC they put in, like the fallout stuff

This!
Morrowind, Oblivion, Fall Out 3, those games have no real ending and thus you never have a feeling of immersion or completion!
Id gladly take Dragon Age as it is over 10 Obilvions or 5 Fall Out 3s
This game has a ending and its a EPIC ending.

[Athran1]

Tonya777 wrote...

I didn't even get to lvl 20 for the acheivement , and I don't even see how thats possible either because theres no such thing as going XP on purpose in this game , especially after you beat it

Like lvl 19.75 (sigh) so close

There is no way to go XP after beating the game right? No more random attacks when traveling on the map?

You couldn't be more wrong in saying there is no way to get to 20, as there is plenty of chances to get way further. At the post-coronation party of my first playthrough I was already 25% towards level 21 and I didn't even do all the sidequests in the game, just a few. And as for the companions quests I did only Leliana's, Morrigan's and Wynne's ones.
To make a long story short: you can get way farther than 20, don't just rush through the main storyline events.

[Mordern]

Cursek wrote...

Mordern wrote...

Cursek wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

LOL, again, you can read the main book and have YOUR idea of the plot end, what I'm talking about is Expanded Universe books that add to the world of the story without making you feel like you missed something important.

And for some reason you keep bringing up Oblivion? It's an old example now, and barely justifies my part of the discussion supporting my large extra content rather than smack random bandits. I want quests and side plots explained, not look 500 corpes so I can buy some runes.

But what sort of quest could possibly trump the climax of killing the Archdemon? And even if it did, how do they take into account all the possible endings? Including some where the main character ends up, you know, dead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There will be nothing short of a true sequel that will take place after the main quest. Even a true expansion (Old School expansion, not DLC) would be impractical, considering that they'd have to somehow make a quest even more impressive than slaying an archdemon and let you continue playing in the game world without causing you to lose the feeling that you've altered the world in some tangible way during your quest.

The end is supposed to be the climax. What everythings been leading to. The inevitable confrontation that you will potentially sacrifice your life to resolve. That whole thing gets cheapened if right after, they send you off to go do (insert quest here).

That's exactly why you don't have to do it? Are you listening? I don't think you are.

The point of the extended content isn't to top the original conflict, it's to expand the world the conflict is in.

The 'expand the world the conflict is in' vein is exactly what they're doing with the current DLC. They're just purposefully placing it before the resolution so as not to take away from the impact of the moment.

And saying "If you don't like it, don't play it" is like telling someone to stop reading a book because they won't like the ending. Not reading it doesn't mean it doesn't keep going anyway. The story's there whether you experience it or not.

[DeepGray]

GhoXen wrote...

Tonya777 wrote...

Now I just accidently got some great new sword called Starfang at the wardens keep , but I have nothing to use it on oh boy! D:

I got that sword at level 8-10, and used it for the rest of the game. 'sup.

Same here. I also used that shield from the first Orge in the Tower of Ishal(sp) to tank the Archdemon. I tried to find better ones but couldn't.

[superfeds26]

I ended the game at 22 and got the 75% of the sidequests completed achievement my first time through



the game is not meant to be continuously played, but played through again and again, so you can see the story from different points of view, play different styles, and see different endings



thats what bioware games are about

[Cursek]

Mordern wrote...

Cursek wrote...

Mordern wrote...

Cursek wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cursek wrote...

The problem with your games wanting to end is that nowadays RPG's are just way too big a world to have a happily ever after in. You can't advertise a diverse and extensive world when you beat the game and all of a sudden the entire planet simultaneously 'stops being bad, THE END'.

You want games to end, stick to older games where there wasn't enough developement space to do that in, or just never DLC again, or replay the game 6 or 7 more times.

When did I say I wanted a "happy ever after" ending? I just want the game to end, not the conflict of the entire world.

A game is like a book, it's a portion of a world's story. It doesn't have to be and should never be completely open and free to explore completely. It would be like a "choose your own ending" book where all the decisions just lead you around in circles. That's what Oblivion feels like.

I'm not asking for Thedas to stop having conflict, I'm asking for Thedas to not need me to solve and witness all its future conflicts. The ending should be left open to allow future expansions, conflicts, games, scenarios, but it also should end the story it's currently telling.

Oblivion completely lacks the feeling of telling a specific story. As I said, releasing your character to roam the world makes it feel like there's more story to tell when there isn't. I'll say it again: it's mundane.

LOL, again, you can read the main book and have YOUR idea of the plot end, what I'm talking about is Expanded Universe books that add to the world of the story without making you feel like you missed something important.

And for some reason you keep bringing up Oblivion? It's an old example now, and barely justifies my part of the discussion supporting my large extra content rather than smack random bandits. I want quests and side plots explained, not look 500 corpes so I can buy some runes.

But what sort of quest could possibly trump the climax of killing the Archdemon? And even if it did, how do they take into account all the possible endings? Including some where the main character ends up, you know, dead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There will be nothing short of a true sequel that will take place after the main quest. Even a true expansion (Old School expansion, not DLC) would be impractical, considering that they'd have to somehow make a quest even more impressive than slaying an archdemon and let you continue playing in the game world without causing you to lose the feeling that you've altered the world in some tangible way during your quest.

The end is supposed to be the climax. What everythings been leading to. The inevitable confrontation that you will potentially sacrifice your life to resolve. That whole thing gets cheapened if right after, they send you off to go do (insert quest here).

That's exactly why you don't have to do it? Are you listening? I don't think you are.

The point of the extended content isn't to top the original conflict, it's to expand the world the conflict is in.

The 'expand the world the conflict is in' vein is exactly what they're doing with the current DLC. They're just purposefully placing it before the resolution so as not to take away from the impact of the moment.

And saying "If you don't like it, don't play it" is like telling someone to stop reading a book because they won't like the ending. Not reading it doesn't mean it doesn't keep going anyway. The story's there whether you experience it or not.

That can work, so long as there's plenty of it to not make it a $5 regret.

No, that's not what I'm getting at. You can read Lord of The Rings without ever reading The Hobbit and still be happy is what I'm saying.

[Tonya777]

Reiella wrote...

Knights of the Nine, to be honest, I found both the Stone Prisoner and Warden's Keep a bit more satisfying that Knights of the Nine, but to each their own .

Thats insane , theres no denying the DAO DLC that is currently out is WAY too short

I feel as though I finished them both in like ... idk 15 minutes? I expect more than that lol

[Onyx Jaguar]

I personally would have liked a new game plus option to keep the characters level but go through the story with everything reset. Alas they seemed to have taken that out of the next Mass Effect as well.