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[wizardryforever]

wulf3n wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
It's the same complaint that people level at the mining game, "Why am I the one doing this?  Isn't there someone else that can do it?  Do they really need a Spectre for this?"  That's why we aren't investigating the Collectors ourselves, because Cerberus is.  As much as I dislike Cerberus, it's an important plot point meant to introduce and incorporate Cerberus into the story.  Look at how TIM found the derelict Reaper, through investigation of the Great Rift on Klendagon and the weapon that made it.

Those two things are a bit different. One is a menial task that has very little bearing on the story. The other is the entire point of the game, and the very reason Shepard is brought back from the dead. Whats next, Shepard has to clean his own weapons, because if you don't they'll jam up and your squad mates will die?

The collector story is supposed to be like a mystery story, yet we spend very little time trying to solve the mystery, and when we actually do TIM comes out and says he pretty much knew all that anyway, completely destroying any importance Shepard might have had. Ultimately TIM knew everything already, we just tagged along for the ride to make us feel "special"

Gathering intel on the Collectors is not what they need Shepard for.  They need Shepard to fight the Collectors, which is a pretty big difference.  Every time the Illusive Man contacts Shepard, it's a dangerous mission that he thinks only Shepard can handle.  Gathering little details in a safe environment, or even one that is only mildly dangerous, is something that Cerberus has been doing just fine all on its own.  Shepard was chosen because Cerberus wanted Shepard's experience and "face" leading the operation.  They felt that he/she was humanity's best hope.  As for TIM knowing everything already, he may have suspicions, but he may need Shepard to go into a dangerous situation to confirm it.  Of course, because TIM is an ****, he doesn't tell Shepard this, so Shepard gets the impression that he/she isn't doing much.  That's my take on it.

[Hyper Cutter]

It's hard to have nostalgia for ME1 when I first played it only a few months before ME2...

[Tasker]

Nozybidaj wrote...


Haven't bothered with LotSB so can't comment there, but....

The story of ME2 is in fact not about Shepard, agreed.  I'd dare say that the Shepard in ME2 is only cosmetically the same Shepard we played in ME1.   Not even just based on the ridiculous death and resurrection either.

In ME1 Shepard was very much a take charge, do it my way kind of guy.  Anything someone told him he couldn't do, he went out and did.  Tell him he doesn't have what it takes to stop Saren, ho goes out and does.  Tell him its impossible to stop the Reapers, he goes out and proves you wrong.  Tell him he's grounded, lock his ship up, and place the crew under guard watch and he'll break out of the frackin Citdael with ship and crew intact, stop Saren and the Reapers, and give you the finger while doing it.

In ME2:
Shep:  Hey think I can get my old team back together?
TIM:  They are like, busy, and....stuff...
Shep:  Ah, okay. /pouts

Shep:  Hey you backstabbed me!
TIM:  Not really, I knew you'd be okay.
Shep:   Phew, thats good to know.  Anything else I can do for you?
TIM:  Yeah think you can tell that ship full of people whose lives I just put in danger not to be mad at me?
Shep:  Yes sir, right away sir.

Bleh....

In the entirety of ME2 Shep did basically nothing but take order after order from the same guy responsible for one of the most traumatic events in his life (depending on background).  Did they forget to give him a backbone when they resurrected him?

The story in ME1 was just as much about the characters and introducing them and the world as much as it was about unravelling the mystery and overcoming the impossible odds.

In ME2 the story is nothing but a series a characater viginettes.  Any mystery that had a possibility of existing is erased in the first half hour, but that's okay because the plot had about as much fortitude to carry a mystery as a wet paper bag anyway.  There wasn't much of a point to the game except to introduce a series of characters and then kill them all off at the end. 

It might have served very well as a spin-off game, throw Conrad Verner in the starring role and have at it, heck I'd probably have loved it if that had been the case.  Presenting it as a sequel to the first game and the second part of a trilogy however obviously created expectations that it would, you know, carry on the story of the first game and lead us into the third.

As for it being a sequel to the first game it did absolutely nothing to advance the story.  We're still basically at the same place we were at the end of ME1, waiting to figure out how the Reapers are going to advance, while giving us a new bigger ship now with no one on it. /shrug

We don't know anything more about the Reapers, how they plan to get out of darkspace, how the plan to attack, why they want to attack, how we can stop them, or even what color briefs Shepard perfers to wear.  Characters from the first game are presented as caricatures of themselves with stupid lines like "Ah yes, the Reapers" and "I'll shove him in a coffee cup".  The entire plot of the first game is hand waved away with silly explanations like nothing being left of Harbinger to retrieve.

Far as I can tell, ME2 is nothing short of a poorly done reboot of the series that doesn't come close to living up to the standards of the first.   Like a Hollywood summer blockbuster it is shinier, it has more explosions, and a chick that likes to cuss a lot.  All substance and believablity is drained right out of it though, and just as with many of the afore mentioned Hollywood sequels, it is a shame to see creators that treat their own subject matter so insincerely. 

In the end, no reason crying over spilled milk, but it is a shame to see such great oppurtunity to do something more wasted.

Yeah kinda all over the place there, but oh well.

Very nicely put.   Couldn't agree more.  

All in all, it was a butchered story to go with butchered game mechanics.

Hyper Cutter wrote...

It's hard to have nostalgia for ME1 when I first played it only a few months before ME2...

So very true, you can't dwell on something that's in the past when it isn't. 

And it can't also be dwelling on the past when I still play ME1 and actually play it more often than ME2?

Modifié par Orkboy, 08 octobre 2010 - 10:06 .

[wulf3n]

wizardryforever wrote...
Gathering intel on the Collectors is not what they need Shepard for.  They need Shepard to fight the Collectors, which is a pretty big difference.  Every time the Illusive Man contacts Shepard, it's a dangerous mission that he thinks only Shepard can handle.  Gathering little details in a safe environment, or even one that is only mildly dangerous, is something that Cerberus has been doing just fine all on its own.  Shepard was chosen because Cerberus wanted Shepard's experience and "face" leading the operation.  They felt that he/she was humanity's best hope.  As for TIM knowing everything already, he may have suspicions, but he may need Shepard to go into a dangerous situation to confirm it.  Of course, because TIM is an ****, he doesn't tell Shepard this, so Shepard gets the impression that he/she isn't doing much.  That's my take on it.

This is how i see it. ME2 dangles this cool mystery story right in front of us, once again we'll be at the cutting edge of saving the galaxy, being the first to uncover who's behind the disappearing colonies, what they want, and how to stop them, instead TIM slaps us in the face, tells us instead were going to be babysitting a bunch of immature morons that can't deal with their own personal issues, and that he'll call us when he needs us for generic combat encounter #46.  

[Iakus]

wizardryforever wrote...

The story was constructed in such a way that Cerberus is the one gathering intel.  TIM only calls Shepard when it's going to be dangerous, when the Collectors are actually present.

This was a mistake.  This is supposed to be Shepard's story, not TIM's story.

 

This serves a couple of purposes.  First, it makes us dependent upon TIM for intel, so that we are forced to use Cerberus to acheive our goal of fighting the Collectors and by extension, the Reapers.

I can get behind having to work with the "bad guys", "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" or whatever.  But what you're describing many would call "railroading".  "Mister Illusive Man, sir.  Could you tell me what kind of weapons the Collectors might bring to bear on my squad?" "No!  Go hire another merc!"

 

Second, it means that Shepard can focus all of his/her efforts on ensuring he/she and his/her crew are prepared to fight the Collectors.

Ah, and when exactly does Shepard do this?  His tasks consist of 1) recruit squadmate and 2) Run errand for squadmate.  Twelve uber bad****es with strong personalities, most of whom prefer working alone.  Many of whom "don't play well with others"  When does Shepard prepare them or mold them into a team?  Remember, there's virtually no interaction between the squaddies.  Shepard isn't leading a team, he's a glorified recruiting officer.

  It's the same complaint that people level at the mining game, "Why am I the one doing this?  Isn't there someone else that can do it?  Do they really need a Spectre for this?"  That's why we aren't investigating the Collectors ourselves, because Cerberus is.  As much as I dislike Cerberus, it's an important plot point meant to introduce and incorporate Cerberus into the story.  Look at how TIM found the derelict Reaper, through investigation of the Great Rift on Klendagon and the weapon that made it.

Oddly enough, I didn't mind the mining game too much.  Do I have anything in common with ME2 fans? 

But the fact remains, why is the person who will be leading the charge against the Collectors left out of the loop in information-gathering?  Wouldn't it have made sense to toss in some missions to go check out leads Cerberus tracked down?  Something that isn't an obvious trap?  Something that lets you both learn about the Collectors, work with Cerberus and gague your team's combat-readiness?  Learn how well they work together, give them chances to get used to fighting side by side, come together as a team?  Dry runs for the Suicide Mission, perhaps?

It's more than liking the focus of the story, plot or character.  It's also how well it was pulled off.  Even if ME 1's wasn't the greatest, it was still done well.  ME 2 had all the ingredients needed for a great story, but was left half-done.

[wizardryforever]

wulf3n wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
Gathering intel on the Collectors is not what they need Shepard for.  They need Shepard to fight the Collectors, which is a pretty big difference.  Every time the Illusive Man contacts Shepard, it's a dangerous mission that he thinks only Shepard can handle.  Gathering little details in a safe environment, or even one that is only mildly dangerous, is something that Cerberus has been doing just fine all on its own.  Shepard was chosen because Cerberus wanted Shepard's experience and "face" leading the operation.  They felt that he/she was humanity's best hope.  As for TIM knowing everything already, he may have suspicions, but he may need Shepard to go into a dangerous situation to confirm it.  Of course, because TIM is an ****, he doesn't tell Shepard this, so Shepard gets the impression that he/she isn't doing much.  That's my take on it.

This is how i see it. ME2 dangles this cool mystery story right in front of us, once again we'll be at the cutting edge of saving the galaxy, being the first to uncover who's behind the disappearing colonies, what they want, and how to stop them, instead TIM slaps us in the face, tells us instead were going to be babysitting a bunch of immature morons that can't deal with their own personal issues, and that he'll call us when he needs us for generic combat encounter #46.  

I think you're seeing what you want to see, or you're just that cynical.  Shepard does discover things that cerberus didn't know about the Collecors, and when there is a situation that Shepard is best suited to handle, TIM calls us up.  The rest of the time TIM lets us do our own thing, which includes building up a team ideally suited to adapt to whatever may be beyond the Omega-4 Relay.  Loyalty missions are there to develop the characters, and strictly speaking are not necessary.  I believe that you can start the suicide mission with no loyalties at all if you want.  Besides, TIM calls you up four times total in the game.  Before and after Horizon, and before and after the Collector ship mission.  Any other time you speak with him either you or Jacob calls him.  So it's not like TIM is running us ragged with missions, and everything we do for Cerberus is important in discovering something crucial about the Collectors or how to fight them.

[Iakus]

Frybread76 wrote...


While your idea is plausible and would make sense from TIM's perspective to keep Shepard in the dark, it is a bad move from a storytelling perspective, especially when the audience is relegated to only Shepard's POV.

This.

It's supposed to be Shepard's story.  Not TIM's

[wulf3n]

wizardryforever wrote...
I think you're seeing what you want to see, or you're just that cynical.  Shepard does discover things that cerberus didn't know about the Collecors, and when there is a situation that Shepard is best suited to handle, TIM calls us up. 

Sure TIM gets Shepard to confirm his suspicions, but with the exception of the first mission, Shepard is not needed, a regular science team, or even a sensor probe would suffice.

wizardryforever wrote...
 The rest of the time TIM lets us do our own thing, which includes building up a team ideally suited to adapt to whatever may be beyond the Omega-4 Relay.  Loyalty missions are there to develop the characters, and strictly speaking are not necessary. 

Perhaps, but how much of a game would their be if you didn't do loyalty or recruitment missions.

wizardryforever wrote...
I believe that you can start the suicide mission with no loyalties at all if you want.  Besides, TIM calls you up four times total in the game.  Before and after Horizon, and before and after the Collector ship mission.  Any other time you speak with him either you or Jacob calls him.  So it's not like TIM is running us ragged with missions, and everything we do for Cerberus is important in discovering something crucial about the Collectors or how to fight them.

Something crucial that TIM already knew. was there any situation where TIM was unaware of something shepard found out?

The difference to me is:
ME1 you're upgraded to a spectre. You decide what you do, where you go. You're the one solving the mystery, saving the galaxy.
ME2 you're downgraded to special forces again. You go where you're told, follow you're orders, and report back.

[wizardryforever]

wulf3n, I believe Shepard actually has a line that goes like this:

Shepard: I haven't even started yet and you're already telling me what to do?

TIM: I'm giving you direction. What you do with it is up to you.



Shepard reports to the Illusive man far less than he does to the Council in ME1. In fact, Shepard doesn't actually work for TIM, so it's not like you're reporting to him, more like working with him.

[wulf3n]

wizardryforever wrote...

wulf3n, I believe Shepard actually has a line that goes like this:
Shepard: I haven't even started yet and you're already telling me what to do?
TIM: I'm giving you direction. What you do with it is up to you.

Shepard reports to the Illusive man far less than he does to the Council in ME1. In fact, Shepard doesn't actually work for TIM, so it's not like you're reporting to him, more like working with him.

A direction you must follow, for what reason? I admit you're forced to do things in ME1, that you may not want to, but they are necessary for you to uncover what Saren is doing. Both ME1 and ME2 are just situations you have to do in order to make the game progress, but in ME1 its not as obvious because each forced mission reveals something no one knew, and leads you to your final destination. In ME2 the final destination is known, and so is pretty much everything that we discover, so when you reach the end of the game you wonder why Shepard was really needed at all? TIM knew practically everything, with the exception of the IFF, but was Shepard the only one that could have acquired it? hardly! the collectors were offering themselves up on a silver platter expecting shepard to be stupid and go aboard, without punching holes in its weapons and engines.

edit: Example, try not going to Horizon. it'll get to a point, where you physically can't do anything but that. Next try avoiding Virmire you can do whatever you want, the story may not progress but you're not forced to go.

Modifié par wulf3n, 08 octobre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Pocketgb]

Nostalgia sucks. It gets in the way of determining the actual quality of a product. It makes it hard for any form of media to move in a different direction: game developers, musicians, artists, everyone will have difficulty attempting to 'branch out'.



In regards to ME1 to ME2: Story and plot took a bit of a hit, but there was still much gained. I love both games in the series so far.

[Iakus]

Pocketgb wrote...

In regards to ME1 to ME2: Story and plot took a bit of a hit, but there was still much gained. I love both games in the series so far.

Unfortunately, I value story and plot more than graphics and cinema.  Even the gameplay improvements were not enough in my mind to justify the loss.  It was an unequal trade to me.

[wizardryforever]

Pocketgb wrote...

Nostalgia sucks. It gets in the way of determining the actual quality of a product. It makes it hard for any form of media to move in a different direction: game developers, musicians, artists, everyone will have difficulty attempting to 'branch out'.

In regards to ME1 to ME2: Story and plot took a bit of a hit, but there was still much gained. I love both games in the series so far.

Yep, this is pretty much my whole point.  Well said.

[Iakus]

wizardryforever wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

Nostalgia sucks. It gets in the way of determining the actual quality of a product. It makes it hard for any form of media to move in a different direction: game developers, musicians, artists, everyone will have difficulty attempting to 'branch out'.

In regards to ME1 to ME2: Story and plot took a bit of a hit, but there was still much gained. I love both games in the series so far.

Yep, this is pretty much my whole point.  Well said.

So what do you call it with the posters who have played ME 1 and ME 2 back to back and like ME 1 better?

Edit:  And those of us who have replayed ME 1 just to make sure it isn't just nostalgia?

Modifié par iakus, 08 octobre 2010 - 11:21 .

[bjdbwea]

Shepard could at least close the connection when the council wanted a report (and their reactions were quite funny too). At least Shepard could express some anger at the council. At least Shepard was allowed to have an opinion on the things that happened and the things that were requested by the council. Of course Shepard still had to do what they wanted, of course the story is predetermined, but at least there was the illusion of choices in ME 1. ME 2 doesn't even try to create that illusion. TIM tells Shepard what to do, and that's it.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 08 octobre 2010 - 11:23 .

[Iakus]

bjdbwea wrote...

Shepard could at least close the connection when the council wanted a report (and their reactions were quite funny too). At least Shepard could express some anger at the council. At least Shepard was allowed to have an opinion on the things that happened and the things that were requested by the council. Of course Shepard still had to do what they wanted, of course the story is predetermined, but at least there was the illusion of choices in ME 1. ME 2 doesn't even try to create that illusion. TIM tells Shepard what to do, and that's it.

This.  Well said!

[Randy1012]

bjdbwea wrote...

Shepard could at least close the connection when the council wanted a report (and their reactions were quite funny too). At least Shepard could express some anger at the council. At least Shepard was allowed to have an opinion on the things that happened and the things that were requested by the council. Of course Shepard still had to do what they wanted, of course the story is predetermined, but at least there was the illusion of choices in ME 1. ME 2 doesn't even try to create that illusion. TIM tells Shepard what to do, and that's it.

Agreed completely, but the railroading started even before we met TIM. Shepard and Jacob fight their way through the Lazarus Station to reach the evac shuttle, and Miranda tells Shepard that they're taking him to see the Illusive Man, and Shepard just goes along with the idea without a second thought. Sorry, but this doesn't fly. As soon as Jacob told Shepard the truth about who he and Miranda were working for, any Shepard who wasn't insane would have wanted to get the heck away from them and report to the Alliance and/or the Citadel Council ASAP.

[wizardryforever]

Randy1083 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Shepard could at least close the connection when the council wanted a report (and their reactions were quite funny too). At least Shepard could express some anger at the council. At least Shepard was allowed to have an opinion on the things that happened and the things that were requested by the council. Of course Shepard still had to do what they wanted, of course the story is predetermined, but at least there was the illusion of choices in ME 1. ME 2 doesn't even try to create that illusion. TIM tells Shepard what to do, and that's it.

Agreed completely, but the railroading started even before we met TIM. Shepard and Jacob fight their way through the Lazarus Station to reach the evac shuttle, and Miranda tells Shepard that they're taking him to see the Illusive Man, and Shepard just goes along with the idea without a second thought. Sorry, but this doesn't fly. As soon as Jacob told Shepard the truth about who he and Miranda were working for, any Shepard who wasn't insane would have wanted to get the heck away from them and report to the Alliance and/or the Citadel Council ASAP.

Shepard asks them specifically, "where are we going?"  When Miranda tells him/her, he/she has the clear option to say, "I'm not sure I trust you."  At that point Miranda says that this is the only evac shuttle, and if Shepard wants to stay and rot with the mechs, he/she can be her guest.  So it's not like Shepard goes along without complaint.  Besides, the illusion of choice is what we are basing our opinions off of?  Really?

[Therion942]

Randy1083 wrote...
Agreed completely, but the railroading started even before we met TIM. Shepard and Jacob fight their way through the Lazarus Station to reach the evac shuttle, and Miranda tells Shepard that they're taking him to see the Illusive Man, and Shepard just goes along with the idea without a second thought. Sorry, but this doesn't fly. As soon as Jacob told Shepard the truth about who he and Miranda were working for, any Shepard who wasn't insane would have wanted to get the heck away from them and report to the Alliance and/or the Citadel Council ASAP.

Indeed. If this were like any of the much older RPGs, you would have even had the chance to outright execute Jacob and Miranda at the very beginning. Yes, we understand that you want us to work for Old Blue-Eyes, but lie to us a little, don't just turn our character into a glorified Yes-Man. That's all Shepard is in ME2 up until the very end, a Yes-Man. Shepard there's this problem on Horizon "Yassuh boss" Shepard go to this obvious trap "Sir yes sir" Shepard my mother doesn't love me, I'll die if she doesn't knit me a sweater "You got it!"

Modifié par Therion942, 09 octobre 2010 - 12:08 .

[cachx]

This was a mistake.  This is supposed to be Shepard's story, not TIM's story.

Actually...

Mass Effect 2
has an untraditional structure, "building the team" as your narrative
thrust rather than just being relegated to the first act like in many
games. Was there a worry that people wouldn't get it or would be waiting
for the "real game" to start?



We knew it was a risk and something different. You're right, the story of Mass Effect 2
is very much about how you get ready for a mission by building a team
and understanding who they are, and about learning the magnitude of what
you're facing. The funny thing is that people will say "other than
gathering your crew and building your team and getting ready for this
mission, there's not much story there." But that is the story. In other
media, you find stories that are about so many different kinds of
things, different structures. In movies you find there are stories about
how someone gathers a team and makes them well equipped and well
trained.
(source)

This is not the first time this has been quoted. But people keep pushing what "it could have been" (wich is really: "what I wanted it to be" or "I would totally have had written it like that"). What a trite circle of discussion this is.

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was arguing something like that earlier, then got a 24 hour ban for responding to a spam thread. Came back to check where some threads I was in earlier had gone and... looks like this one's gotten nowhere.

[Paladin Latham]

In ME1 there was less cheesecake and no thermal clips, also leveling up made a lot more sense. In ME2 there was better combat, no lame inventory and better level design. There.

[Frybread76]

cachx wrote...

This was a mistake.  This is supposed to be Shepard's story, not TIM's story.

Actually...

Mass Effect 2
has an untraditional structure, "building the team" as your narrative
thrust rather than just being relegated to the first act like in many
games. Was there a worry that people wouldn't get it or would be waiting
for the "real game" to start?



We knew it was a risk and something different. You're right, the story of Mass Effect 2
is very much about how you get ready for a mission by building a team
and understanding who they are, and about learning the magnitude of what
you're facing. The funny thing is that people will say "other than
gathering your crew and building your team and getting ready for this
mission, there's not much story there." But that is the story. In other
media, you find stories that are about so many different kinds of
things, different structures. In movies you find there are stories about
how someone gathers a team and makes them well equipped and well
trained.
(source)

This is not the first time this has been quoted. But people keep pushing what "it could have been" (wich is really: "what I wanted it to be" or "I would totally have had written it like that"). What a trite circle of discussion this is.

It will be a big misake if we spent so much time building up this team in ME2 only to have a few transfer over to ME3.  If that happens, what would have been the point?

[Gibb_Shepard]

cachx wrote...

This was a mistake.  This is supposed to be Shepard's story, not TIM's story.

Actually...

Mass Effect 2
has an untraditional structure, "building the team" as your narrative
thrust rather than just being relegated to the first act like in many
games. Was there a worry that people wouldn't get it or would be waiting
for the "real game" to start?



We knew it was a risk and something different. You're right, the story of Mass Effect 2
is very much about how you get ready for a mission by building a team
and understanding who they are, and about learning the magnitude of what
you're facing. The funny thing is that people will say "other than
gathering your crew and building your team and getting ready for this
mission, there's not much story there." But that is the story. In other
media, you find stories that are about so many different kinds of
things, different structures. In movies you find there are stories about
how someone gathers a team and makes them well equipped and well
trained.
(source)

This is not the first time this has been quoted. But people keep pushing what "it could have been" (wich is really: "what I wanted it to be" or "I would totally have had written it like that"). What a trite circle of discussion this is.

I've never read that interview before, thats really insightful.

It's good to see that bioware have taken on board that they need to bring more RPGness to ME3. Hopefully they have read the complaints about the story aswell. I understand where Casey's coming from when he says in ME2 the characters are the story, but ME3 really shouldn't take this route.

[Randy1012]

wizardryforever wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Shepard could at least close the connection when the council wanted a report (and their reactions were quite funny too). At least Shepard could express some anger at the council. At least Shepard was allowed to have an opinion on the things that happened and the things that were requested by the council. Of course Shepard still had to do what they wanted, of course the story is predetermined, but at least there was the illusion of choices in ME 1. ME 2 doesn't even try to create that illusion. TIM tells Shepard what to do, and that's it.

Agreed completely, but the railroading started even before we met TIM. Shepard and Jacob fight their way through the Lazarus Station to reach the evac shuttle, and Miranda tells Shepard that they're taking him to see the Illusive Man, and Shepard just goes along with the idea without a second thought. Sorry, but this doesn't fly. As soon as Jacob told Shepard the truth about who he and Miranda were working for, any Shepard who wasn't insane would have wanted to get the heck away from them and report to the Alliance and/or the Citadel Council ASAP.

Shepard asks them specifically, "where are we going?"  When Miranda tells him/her, he/she has the clear option to say, "I'm not sure I trust you."  At that point Miranda says that this is the only evac shuttle, and if Shepard wants to stay and rot with the mechs, he/she can be her guest.  So it's not like Shepard goes along without complaint.

I remember the dialogue, but it wasn't good enough. Why spend two years and over four billion credits on reviving Shepard if he could "stay and rot with the mechs" for all Miranda cared? He was the only one at the Lazarus Project who wasn't expendable, after all. Maybe Shepard decides he doesn't trust Miranda or Jacob--you know, what with their being Cerberus agents--and takes the shuttle for himself, leaving them to rot with the mechs instead.