815 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It seemed pretty obvious to me on the first playthrough that the Collectors were interested specifically in Shepard, and set the DCS trap specifically to catch Shepard and crew.

Why?  We don't need to know exactly why. 

  If they wanted to catch Shepard, why blow him to smithereens at the beginning of the game?  Why not capture him then?

[smudboy]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It seemed pretty obvious to me on the first playthrough that the Collectors were interested specifically in Shepard, and set the DCS trap specifically to catch Shepard and crew.

Why?  We don't need to know exactly why. 

  If they wanted to catch Shepard, why blow him to smithereens at the beginning of the game?  Why not capture him then?

Yeah, God forbid we get an opposing force, let alone an antagonist, whose motives are clear.

[NPH11]

I first played ME1 in January, followed immidately by ME2. All in all, I prefer the story of ME1, but I prefer the combat and much of the streamlining introduced in ME2. They're both really good games, probably in my top 5, but I like ME2 a little more.

[Julie the bogan]

I think it would have been great for them to add random factors into the suicide mission that made you loose squad members regardless of loyalty, tripping over something or an unforeseen sniper or any kind of random occurrence. That would have truly made it dark, something that the player could not control, maybe you got lucky and everybody survives or maybe somebody dies. Heck it doesn’t even have to be the suicide mission either it could be on any of the story missions, horizon or the derelict reaper.
 
I hate the “I didn’t do so and so’s loyalty mission so I could kill them off”, they say time and time again that they want to get emotional responses out of us what better the something totally uncontrollable. I’m not saying add a “this is the part where his/her LI dies” but what if they did?
 
Either way I like both games just fine, both were emotionally engaging and enjoyable if your so logical and can’t get over things like plot holes, sure I know that they exist but it was pretty easy for me to overlook them.
 
This brings me to the only two things that were pretty hard to swallow coming from me1 to me2, the butchery of Shepard’s humanity and the way main characters from the first game changed so much that you could barely relate to them anymore, sure changing as a person is a part of growing and fiction characters should be no exception to this, but changing so much from something that is not even explained was pretty rough, if they wanted a “but I loved your or I still love you” or “but your supposed to be a friend” from the player it was not reflected by Shepard at all.
 
And being forced into Cerberus, TIM’s puppet... Alright so there are a few things but it’s pretty easy for me to fill in some blanks using my own imagination but do we really need every little thing explained to us anyway?
 
Is it rose colored glasses on my part or perhaps nostalgia, its entirely possible yes.
 
Woah I kinda went on and on didn’t I, sorry started writing and couldn’t stop.

[Nightwriter]

I mean really, suggesting I have nostalgia for a game for which I have shamelessly whiny criticisms.

How quickly we forget that much of the writing for ME1 was not fantastic either, it just becomes insanely better in comparison when looking at ME2, just like Ashley's ridiculous Barbie outfit looks miles better when Miranda and Samara come along in their liquid latex.

Then you look back with longing at Ashley's Barbie outfit, and they accuse you of wearing rose-colored glasses. Pah!

[Randy1012]

I liked Ashley's Barbie outfit.

[Julie the bogan]

Nightwriter wrote...

I mean really, suggesting I have nostalgia for a game for which I have shamelessly whiny criticisms.

How quickly we forget that much of the writing for ME1 was not fantastic either, it just becomes insanely better in comparison when looking at ME2, just like Ashley's ridiculous Barbie outfit looks miles better when Miranda and Samara come along in their liquid latex.

Then you look back with longing at Ashley's Barbie outfit, and they accuse you of wearing rose-colored glasses. Pah!

I see your point Nightwriter, but there is quite a few regulars on these forums (myself included) who didn't become regulars till ME2.. why is that?

I bought ME1 on pc when it was released knowing nothing about it, i didnt pay any attention to who made it it just looked like fun, I played it through 2 times mabye then uninstalled it (deleting my saved games).

[Nightwriter]

Julie Shepard wrote...

I see your point Nightwriter, but there is quite a few regulars on these forums (myself included) who didn't become regulars till ME2.. why is that?

I bought ME1 on pc when it was released knowing nothing about it, i didnt pay any attention to who made it it just looked like fun, I played it through 2 times mabye then uninstalled it (deleting my saved games).

I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly.

[Frybread76]

Julie Shepard wrote...

I think it would have been great for them to add random factors into the suicide mission that made you loose squad members regardless of loyalty, tripping over something or an unforeseen sniper or any kind of random occurrence. That would have truly made it dark, something that the player could not control, maybe you got lucky and everybody survives or maybe somebody dies. Heck it doesn’t even have to be the suicide mission either it could be on any of the story missions, horizon or the derelict reaper.
 
I hate the “I didn’t do so and so’s loyalty mission so I could kill them off”, they say time and time again that they want to get emotional responses out of us what better the something totally uncontrollable. I’m not saying add a “this is the part where his/her LI dies” but what if they did?
 
Either way I like both games just fine, both were emotionally engaging and enjoyable if your so logical and can’t get over things like plot holes, sure I know that they exist but it was pretty easy for me to overlook them.
 
This brings me to the only two things that were pretty hard to swallow coming from me1 to me2, the butchery of Shepard’s humanity and the way main characters from the first game changed so much that you could barely relate to them anymore, sure changing as a person is a part of growing and fiction characters should be no exception to this, but changing so much from something that is not even explained was pretty rough, if they wanted a “but I loved your or I still love you” or “but your supposed to be a friend” from the player it was not reflected by Shepard at all.
 
And being forced into Cerberus, TIM’s puppet... Alright so there are a few things but it’s pretty easy for me to fill in some blanks using my own imagination but do we really need every little thing explained to us anyway?
 
Is it rose colored glasses on my part or perhaps nostalgia, its entirely possible yes.
 
Woah I kinda went on and on didn’t I, sorry started writing and couldn’t stop.

I like your idea.  But I think having random factors that are totally outside of our control would just tick a lot of people off.  They'd question why even do the loyalty missions and choose the correct person for the right job when their fate is partially or fully determined by a random stat or factor.

[wizardryforever]

Nightwriter wrote...

I mean really, suggesting I have nostalgia for a game for which I have shamelessly whiny criticisms.

How quickly we forget that much of the writing for ME1 was not fantastic either, it just becomes insanely better in comparison when looking at ME2, just like Ashley's ridiculous Barbie outfit looks miles better when Miranda and Samara come along in their liquid latex.

Then you look back with longing at Ashley's Barbie outfit, and they accuse you of wearing rose-colored glasses. Pah!

Accusing is a rather strong word for something like nostalgia.  It's not like I'm accusing you of being a communist in the 50s.

Nitpicks are something that I think we all have for every game we've ever played.  All I'm saying is that nitpicks have a tendency to color our outlook on a game until something new comes out.  Then a lot of people tend to forget their grievances with the previous game and focus on the new game's minor problems.  Nostalgia plays into this, as do lofty expectations that are next to impossible to meet.

I'm unsure how serious you are with most of this statement, though, so maybe I misread it.

[Nightwriter]

wizardryforever wrote...

Accusing is a rather strong word for something like nostalgia.  It's not like I'm accusing you of being a communist in the 50s.

Nitpicks are something that I think we all have for every game we've ever played.  All I'm saying is that nitpicks have a tendency to color our outlook on a game until something new comes out.  Then a lot of people tend to forget their grievances with the previous game and focus on the new game's minor problems.  Nostalgia plays into this, as do lofty expectations that are next to impossible to meet.

I'm unsure how serious you are with most of this statement, though, so maybe I misread it.

Not very serious.

I don't really see this thread as the accusation, more like, the acknowledgement of the accusation. And I was addressing the accusation in the thread which acknowledges it. Dig?

If there's anything I can say about my having played ME1 first, it's that it made me expect certain things from the plot direction.

When I started ME2 this is where my mind was:

- What happens now that the galaxy finally acknowledges the Reaper threat?
- What happens now that I’m a Spectre who has finally proven themselves?
- What happens now that humanity is part of the Council and has a place in the galaxy?
- What are my old allies up to and when will I get back with them? What’s our next step?

Instead I get:
 
- The galaxy does not acknowledge the Reaper threat. You have proven nothing.
- You’re not a Spectre anymore. The Spectre plotline is gone. You have proven nothing.
- Humanity has a seat on the Council but it means nothing. That's not what this game is about.
- Your old allies are gone. They treat you with scorn and distrust. You're part of a terrorist organization now.

W. T. F.

[Frybread76]

Nightwriter wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Accusing is a rather strong word for something like nostalgia.  It's not like I'm accusing you of being a communist in the 50s.

Nitpicks are something that I think we all have for every game we've ever played.  All I'm saying is that nitpicks have a tendency to color our outlook on a game until something new comes out.  Then a lot of people tend to forget their grievances with the previous game and focus on the new game's minor problems.  Nostalgia plays into this, as do lofty expectations that are next to impossible to meet.

I'm unsure how serious you are with most of this statement, though, so maybe I misread it.

Not very serious.

I don't really see this thread as the accusation, more like, the acknowledgement of the accusation. And I was addressing the accusation in the thread which acknowledges it. Dig?

If there's anything I can say about my having played ME1 first, it's that it made me expect certain things from the plot direction.

When I started ME2 this is where my mind was:

- What happens now that the galaxy finally acknowledges the Reaper threat?
- What happens now that I’m a Spectre who has finally proven themselves?
- What happens now that humanity is part of the Council and has a place in the galaxy?
- What are my old allies up to and when will I get back with them? What’s our next step?

Instead I get:
 
- The galaxy does not acknowledge the Reaper threat. You have proven nothing.
- You’re not a Spectre anymore. The Spectre plotline is gone. You have proven nothing.
- Humanity has a seat on the Council but it means nothing. That's not what this game is about.
- Your old allies are gone. They treat you with scorn and distrust. You're part of a terrorist organization now.

W. T. F.

To me, ME2 felt more like a reboot than a sequel.

[Julie the bogan]

Nightwriter wrote...

Julie Shepard wrote...

I see your point Nightwriter, but there is quite a few regulars on these forums (myself included) who didn't become regulars till ME2.. why is that?

I bought ME1 on pc when it was released knowing nothing about it, i didnt pay any attention to who made it it just looked like fun, I played it through 2 times mabye then uninstalled it (deleting my saved games).

I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly.

Sorry ill try to clarify, it wasn’t until ME2 that I got into the series hook line and sinker and then went back and replayed ME1.
 
I was just asking why in your opinion what makes ME1 insanely better then ME2, when there are people like me who were suckered into Mass Effect by ME2 first.

Edit: ill take your above post as your answer? 
didnt see it while writing this

Modifié par Julie Shepard, 14 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Nightwriter]

Lol. Well I actually don't find it that surprising.

You know, there will always be some games you just played a few times and put down for a while. But when you play ME2 they make tons of references to ME1, so you naturally want to go back and play it. Even I experienced this. Sequels make us want to re-experience the value of the first installment.

I should also point out that I don't think ME1 is "insanely better". But it's like a five part story, and ME2 is a one part story - it just can't compete.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I played ME1 after ME2, so I really doubt that my opinion ME1 does some things better comes from nostalgia.

[khevan]

smudboy wrote...

khevan wrote...

You know, I can almost buy the Horizon collector attack as showing Shepard is connected to the plot. Not necessarily integral, but at least connected. I'm not fully convinced yet.

Horizon could easily have happened either way, TIM could have spread enough rumors thru enough sources that it'd be worth it for the Alliance to investigate, and thus the Collector attack, but if Harbinger hadn't seen Shepard on Horizon, the Collectors may well have not set the DCS up as a trap to catch Shepard, and thus we wouldn't have had the information that led us to needing the IFF, which TIM conveniently had access to via the Derelict Reaper.

So, yes, without Shepard the story might have changed...but it's still flimsy enough that I wish there was more.

Edit:  Wow that was one long compound sentence.   Not gonna change it though, 'cause it's neat looking. 

:huh:The Collectors arrived on Horizon, and then saw Shepard there.

Oh wait you're referring to the Disabled Collector Cruiser.  Still, there's no indication why they did that because of Shepard.

Yeah, the Collectors' motives are murky at best, and down right incomprehensible at worst.  However, from the gameplay, not necessarily exposition, it certainly seems like the Disabled Collector Ship (DCS) was set up as a trap.  If not for Shepard, than for who?  Harbinger's comments to Shepard on Horizon seem to suggest that the Collectors have a personal interest in Shepard (which begs the question, "Why?") so it seems logical to me that the DCS was set up as a trap specifically for Shepard.  Which does tie Shepard to the plot, although in a way that makes me go...um, "Why?"

Why are the Collectors so interested in capturing Shepard specifically?
Why did they attack and kill Shepard in the beginning if they were trying to capture him?

I never really thought about it like this before, so I'm kinda treading water here, but this gives me some feeling of connecting Shepard to the story in a way that does make it about him, but there are alot of "Why's"  That's why I say I can kinda buy into this being the tie that makes it "Shepard's Story,"  but it's flimsy and confusing, and I wish I had more.

[khevan]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

khevan wrote...
So, yes, without Shepard the story might have changed...but it's still flimsy enough that I wish there was more.

This may have been addressed previously, but I honestly just can't stomach another 22 pages of "check me out, I like ME1 more than ME2 because I'm smarter than you dumb, dumb shooter fans", so I'll just jump in here and risk making a fool of myself.

The problem with Shepard's connection to the main plot is that you get the impression that there was meant to be more, but it fell by the wayside at some point. The fact that the Collectors are after Shepard specifically is referred to several times; "the same ship dogging me for two years", numerous combat lines from Harbinger telling the Collectors to focus their attack on Shepard, etc. But then the game doesn't do anything with this. We never even find out why they were after him/her, they just were, and there's a few allusions to the fact that maybe it's just because Shepard killed Sovereign - which (s)he actually didn't. Instead, there's the baby Terminator made of human smoothie, which doesn't really have anything to do with Shepard. That's always been my biggest issue with ME2's main plot.

If you forget that, though, I think the Illusive Man's reasons for bringing Shepard back from the dead make about as much sense as this kind of explanation is going to make in a videogame, even a well written one, and the whole angle that Shepard's after the Reapers and almost nobody else even believes the Reapers exist works pretty well for the type of story that ME2 set out to tell.

Although it still leaves the problem that there really isn't a single good reason to kill Shepard off in the first place, there's any number of less contrived ways he/she could've ended up working with Cerberus. Y'know, the Illusive Man being the only one with access to information about the Reapers, for example.

For the most part, I tend to agree with you.  There are specifics I think differently about, but I don't really feel up to going into them too much.  But I do want to ask you exactly what you meant by this comment:

spacehamsterZH wrote...

..."check me out, I like ME1 more than ME2 because I'm smarter than you dumb, dumb shooter fans"....

If you weren't refering to me, then ignore the rest.

Where did I ever say anything like that?  When have I ever insulted anyone who likes ME2 better than ME1?  I was talking about one specific example of why I have issues with ME2's plot, but I have also said repeatedly in other posts that I like ME2 alot.  It's one of my favorite games.  The gameplay mechanics have been improved considerably, the side characters are some of the best in computer gaming, many of their side missions are well written and fun to play, etc. etc. etc.  I'm not going to list what I don't like about ME2 in this post because I don't want to take away from what I've already written, but please don't lump me in with those who think that if you like ME2 better that you're a Halo-****** and I'm some RPG-god who's so much better than you.

I don't think that way, I don't post that way, so don't talk about me as if I do.

[Evil_Weasel]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Much better soundtrack, much, much better story.

Really????!!!!!!??!?!?!?!!!!!!!???

OK, lets look at this

Story is blue

Character development is white

The story of Mass Effect 2 is:

You were dead, but we fixed that so you can stomp these alians that may have something to do with reapers. Please go to a collonie and check things out please.

Build your team, get Mordin.

Build your team, get Garrus.

Build your team, get Jack.

Build your team, get Grunt.

Collecters are attacking Horizion

Build your team, get Samara.

Build your team, get Thane.

Build your team, get Tali.

Make Mordin loyal.

Make Jacob loyal.

Make Miranda loyal.

Take the fight to the Collectors on the disabled Collector ship.

Build your team, get DLC characters Zaeed, and Kasumi maybe.

Make Garrus loyal.

Make Tali loyal.

Make Grunt loyal.

Make Samara loyal.

Make Thane loyal.

Make DLC characters loyal, if you got them.

Go get the Reaper IFF / build your team, get Legion.

Make Legion loyal.

Suicide mission.

As you can see, the story to ME2 is almost non existant, but you think it is great? Really!?!?!?!?!?

Now, yeah you got to spend a lot of time getting to know your characters, but as many have complained; they live in their insular little worlds were they have virtualy no opinions on the goings on of anything eals but their recruitmen and loyalty missions.

But for real, the game lacked story wise and if you dont think so then you were too busy shooting things to notice.

Modifié par Evil_Weasel, 15 octobre 2010 - 10:46 .

[smudboy]

khevan wrote...
Yeah, the Collectors' motives are murky at best, and down right incomprehensible at worst.  However, from the gameplay, not necessarily exposition, it certainly seems like the Disabled Collector Ship (DCS) was set up as a trap.  If not for Shepard, than for who?  Harbinger's comments to Shepard on Horizon seem to suggest that the Collectors have a personal interest in Shepard (which begs the question, "Why?") so it seems logical to me that the DCS was set up as a trap specifically for Shepard.  Which does tie Shepard to the plot, although in a way that makes me go...um, "Why?"

Wasn't it so they could hack the Normandy?  That seemed like the only plan they had going there.

Why are the Collectors so interested in capturing Shepard specifically?
Why did they attack and kill Shepard in the beginning if they were trying to capture him?

I never really thought about it like this before, so I'm kinda treading water here, but this gives me some feeling of connecting Shepard to the story in a way that does make it about him, but there are alot of "Why's"  That's why I say I can kinda buy into this being the tie that makes it "Shepard's Story,"  but it's flimsy and confusing, and I wish I had more.

The problem is we don't know their motives, and their actions jump from kill to capture, both Shepard, Shepard's crew, and the Normandy.

For example, for some reason, the IFF broadcasts their location to the Collectors.  Okay.  Why not just blow up the Normandy at that point?  Is a crew of a few dozen really worth the effort from a ship that's trying to destroy them, that captures defenseless colonies of humans, somewhere in the tens of thousands?  Since they already knew of EDI at that point, why bother with the hassle?

Of course we know the reason to this: we needed that Joker level and to give us a reason to strike back.

In any event, we simply don't know the motives of our opposing force, and we still can't tie in as to why Shepard's important: the Cruiser would've still shown up at the colony/when the IFF was finished installing, regardless of Shepard being there.

[Tasker]

Evil_Weasel wrote...
 
*Snip...*
 ( As it's the post above the post above this. 

Very true.

A large part of ME2 for me was that it felt like I was playing a game made up out of pre-downloaded DLC plug-ins. 

Everything was self-contained and linear.

And I still don't get the reasoning behind some of the team mate choices.

 
In ME 1, they all respected the chain of command and they made sense =

Kaiden - Alliance Crew - Already known, already part of squad.
Ashley - Alliance Marine - Met during story progressing mission, proved herself good in a fight and a convenient replacement for Jenkins
Garrus -  C-Sec - Met during story progressing mission, Is used to the chain of command and has extensive info about Saren.
Liara - Prothian specialist - Found during story progressing mission - Has info on Benizia and extensive knowlage of Prothians.
Wrex - Krogan Merc - Met during story progressing mission, is good in a fight - the only one not really necessary, but awsome anyway.
Tali - Geth Specialist - Met during story progressing mission, has evidence against Saren and knowlage of the way Geth work.


In ME2 its a bunch of disfunctional misfits =

Miranda - Cerberus Administrator - Met during story progressing mission, liason between Shepard and TIM ( Whom we have no choice of working with - despite Shepard hating Cerberus. )
Jacob - Cerberus Yes man, Lap dog - Met during story progressing mission, not bad in a fight.
Garrus - Friend - Met during story progressing mission, is a known factor and has already proven reliable previously.
Mordin - Scientist - Shep goes out of way to recruit -  No real reason to take him over any other scientist.
Tali - Friend - Met during story progressing mission, is a known factor and has already proven reliable previously.
Jack - Biotic Psycho - Shep goes out of way to recruit , powerful human biotic, doesn't really serve any purpose that warrants being headhunted by Sheperd - Why not just take a more powerful and more reliable Asari commando.
Samara - Asari Justicar - Shep goes out of way to recruit, powerfull biotic, doesn't really serve any purpose that warrants being headhunted by Sheperd.
Legion - Geth - Met during story progressing mission, can hack anything and yet is plonked in the AI core of the SR2, can just leave him turned off. Recruited right at the end of the game and serves no real purpose.
Okeer - Krogan Scientist - Shep goes out of way to recruit, has information of the Collectors - dies before Shepard can get any info out of him, - The only one with a reason for going after and he ends up dead.
Grunt - Krogan Experiment - Can just leave in tank - serves no real purpose but is good in a fight.
Zaeed - Merc - Good in a fight
Kasumi - Thief - Shep goes out of way to recruit, good at information gathering
Thane - Assasin - Shep goes out of way to recruit, still trying to work out the point of going out of the way to hire an assasin, If Shep needed anyone dead she'd just do it herself.




After being brought back from the dead, i'm sent on a mission that is thought will probably kill me again, and Instead of being allowed to take people I know, trust or have information I might need, I have to take a bunch of mentally challenged misfits that i've never met before and can't stand each other.

Modifié par Orkboy, 15 octobre 2010 - 12:04 .

[December Man]

Evil_Weasel wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Much better soundtrack, much, much better story.

Really????!!!!!!??!?!?!?!!!!!!!???

OK, lets look at this

Story is blue

Character development is white

The story of Mass Effect 2 is:

You were dead, but we fixed that so you can stomp these alians that may have something to do with reapers. Please go to a collonie and check things out please.

Build your team, get Mordin.

Build your team, get Garrus.

Build your team, get Jack.

Build your team, get Grunt.

Collecters are attacking Horizion

Build your team, get Samara.

Build your team, get Thane.

Build your team, get Tali.

Make Mordin loyal.

Make Jacob loyal.

Make Miranda loyal.

Take the fight to the Collectors on the disabled Collector ship.

Build your team, get DLC characters Zaeed, and Kasumi maybe.

Make Garrus loyal.

Make Tali loyal.

Make Grunt loyal.

Make Samara loyal.

Make Thane loyal.

Make Mordin loyal.

Make DLC characters loyal, if you got them.

Go get the Reaper IFF / build your team, get Legion.

Make Legion loyal.

Suicide mission.

As you can see, the story to ME2 is almost non existant, but you think it is great? Really!?!?!?!?!?

Now, yeah you got to spend a lot of time getting to know your characters, but as many have complained; they live in their insular little worlds were they have virtualy no opinions on the goings on of anything eals but their recruitmen and loyalty missions.

But for real, the game lacked story wise and if you dont think so then you were too busy shooting things to notice.

This is funny, because it's true. Unfortunately.

[pacer90]

Xeranx wrote...

pacer90 wrote...

Heh, I thought of something the other day. The WHOLE lead up was about how dark, and dirty ME2 was going to be. They compared it to ME1 saying that ME1 was the big introduction, but now that you were there you had to peel back layers and see this ugly underneath, the mean details of the universe.

Well, that's what you got. The delivered on every word.

- ME1 classic "fellowship of the ring" situation. HUGE new world running around things are mostly on the up and up, decent resolution at the end. Very satisfying for most people, much like how most people play paragon.

- ME2 REALLY does have the "dark two towers" thing going on. 2 towers was my favorite movie of the trilogy. Everyone else I know complained because it was so dark, so focused and never let you see much of the outside world. Well? If the trilogy is all sunshine and roses you won't feel like you kicked the **** out of them at the end.



Personally... the story struck me a really good way. ME1 I hated Saren, the reapers were fringe. The cool part of the game was unraveling it all. (The discovery part of the trilogy) But he's gone now, and we pwned the Reaper pretty bad. Doesn't really seem to have a whole lot of threat at the end to be honest.

ME2? Well I get killed. Pretty pissed. I watch colonists get carried off... people getting liquified, a few of my teammates got killed in the suicide mission (don't make fun, I thought Miranda would be a perfect Biotic...)

Well now I REALLY hate the Reapers. All my elves in helms deep are dead, half of my favorite characters are dead, and we still don't really have a good handle on how to beat them. But we know that we have to, we know that they are coming, and it's all thanks to ME2.


Which is why I love both of them equally. They can't be the same, or we shaft ME3.

I'm glad you got all that.  What I got that was dark and gritty about ME2 was PG-13 just like Hudson said he was aiming for.  Juvenile sexual innuendo (LOTSB I'm definitely looking at you).  Four letter words that do nothing but make me wonder what the rating on the box says.  I was thinking T for teen rather than M for mature.  Extreme sexualization of women to the point that I, as a heterosexual male, felt insulted.  In short, there was nothing dark or gritty about it for me.  

When I hear dark, gritty I think of being led (not forced) to a place I'd rather not be but have to in order to get a job done.  I would have rather, if I was going to have to work for with Cerberus, have to do it reluctantly.  A basic deal with the devil kind of thing so I can overcome the large obstacle that exists in front of me.  If Cerberus had been the one group to approach because they might be on the cusp of having something that will thwart the reapers I would have been happy with that...kind of.  <_<  Then we would have to overlook TIM's heinous projects in order to determine what Cerberus has that will help our overall goal of stopping the Reapers from committing mass genocide.

If these are the things that stood out to you instead of:

- Piles of dead bodies in the collector ship, cast aside after their use
- Krogan females giving themselves up for brutal experiments so they can cure the genophage. Humans being the "control" as they were intentionally given cancer.
- A teammates father setting up a harem and subjecting his crew to horrors for 13 years
- A team mate having a daughter that is unleashing hell across the galaxy, has spent centuries hunting her down... devoting her life to it
- Tali's father going against the migrant fleet, endangering everyone. She risks herself to protect his image
- A teammate that has been a complete mess from day 1, and has run around the galaxy commiting atrocities herself.
- Mordin struggling with what he did to an entire species
- An engineered plague on omega, people locked in their homes as they die while human looters wait for them to keel over to steal their possesions
- A father who designed 2 women, wants to control them. Fighting to keep them free but debating if it's whats best for the younger
- Liara's friend Feron has been locked away for 2 years... all to save you.
- Garrus tried to make Omega a better place, but he got his entire team killed and barely made it out. He's scarred for life physically now too.
- Zaeed's mission of revenge against the man that ruined his life and blew off half his face.
- Kasumi's lover's memories being a trophy of a billionaire. She has to struggle if she should delete these or not.
- Thane's mission/loyalty. You were watching civilians get mowed down then you yourself mow down a skyscraper full of people to get to 1 man. In his loyalty mission you saw how terrible of a father he was, and how he got his wife killed.
- WATCHING HUMANS GET LIQUIFIED
- Watching teammates die because of your decision.
- Garrus either blowing Sidonis's head off or forgiving him, but the steps he took to get there anyway were brutal.
- The fate of the collectors... they are repurposed tools. Could that be us? 
- Colonies of people... vanishing. The bodies that are left behind on horizon are frozen... watching their captors pick them up one by one to some unknown fate
- People who are barely teenagers signing up as mercs, getting face blown off in first minute of combat
- You are basically DEAD at the beginning
- Normandy destroyed...
- You can get your entire crew liquified.



Not to mention you are allied with an avowed enemy, getting no support on the home front from the alliance or whoever you get instated as councillor or the council themselves. You're working with an AI, you're unable to save the hundreds of thousands of colonists that are going missing. Best you can do is stop MORE from getting abducted.




If what you posted was all you took away as the dark mood of the story... I think you missed it. There are plenty of legitimate points in the story to create a dark mood other than what you listed. You could make the argument that you didn't like ME2's story for various reasons, but to make the claim that the writers setup the atmosphere using the methods you described is a little out there.

Also your end paragraph about working with Cerberus is exactly what happened. You can make dialogue choices all along the beginning that you hate everything that is going on, down to the Normandy being a copy. Then at the end you can tell the Illusive man that he can fall in line, or simply cut him off saying there is a load of bull**** on the line.

Modifié par pacer90, 15 octobre 2010 - 02:37 .

[Jebel Krong]

how quickly people forget that me1 was even more self-contained and linear:



kaiden - anonymous. garrus - just happens to be on citadel and peripherally involved but you don't even have to recruit him, no impact on plot. ashley - happened to be stationed on eden prime, no impact on plot thereafter. wrex - randomly wandering round citadel making trouble, not necessary (but awesome). tali - just happens to have the vital evidence against saren for no particular reason other than she managed to obtain that one specific thing without looking for it, no other effect on plot. liara - benezia's daughter and prothean expert, only one you recruit much later, subsequently has effect on plot. apart from that, and some specific conversations none of the character shave any effect on each other.



at least in mass effect 2 you are told to go after certain individuals because of the skills they bring.