815 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeranx]

[quote]pacer90 wrote...

If these are the things that stood out to you instead of:

Piles of dead bodies in the collector ship, cast aside after their use[/quote]

Unfortunately this didn't really have an effect on me.  Any feeling of anger that I was supposed to have as a result of seeing that pile left as fast as I felt it.  It was about as moving as the Protheans being repurposed as the Collectors.  I didn't care.

[quote]- Krogan females giving themselves up for brutal experiments so they can cure the genophage. Humans being the "control" as they were intentionally given cancer.[/quote]

That one was good.  Too bad it's completely optional.  The fact that I could have completely missed it had I moved on to something else doesn't make it all that important in my eyes.  Everything I brought up is part of the main game.  I can't avoid not taking Jack as part of my crew so I'm not able to avoid her choice of words that would make my adolescent self think, "cool".

[quote]- A teammates father setting up a harem and subjecting his crew to horrors for 13 years[/quote]
I don't remember Jacob's father subjecting his crew to horrors especially for 13 years (wasn't it 10?).  In any case, learning about this is optional and still it didn't move me.  Jacob says he doesn't really care, but he'd like to look it up.  He stresses he doesn't care and when you complete the mission...yeah, he moved on.  My Shepard: "That was a pure waste of time."

[quote]- A team mate having a daughter that is unleashing hell across the galaxy, has spent centuries hunting her down... devoting her life to it[/quote]
Subjective and untrue.  Sovereign unleashed hell on the Citadel in the first game.  Morinth doesn't have anywhere near that kind of impact in ME2 to warrant "unleashing hell" especially since Samara...I've made my posts about her elsewhere.  I won't go into it here if I don't have to.  I don't like her because of what we get concerning her.  Because I know Bioware won't make her a kind of ticking time bomb everyone can be rest assured that Samara won't be some kind of disaster waiting to happen, but Samara has all the trappings of being a walking disaster in the future.  At least she does to me.

[quote]- Tali's father going against the migrant fleet, endangering everyone. She risks herself to protect his image[/quote]
I don't find this dark at all.  The geth are machines and as a result I don't care about someone trying to figure out the inner workings of a machine in order to take a whole army down.
 
[quote]- A teammate that has been a complete mess from day 1, and has run around the galaxy commiting atrocities herself.[/quote]
This is Jack, right?  After they showed the original trailer (not the FFTL one) I wanted to choice to leave her or take her.  I wanted nothing to do with a cliche character like her.  What was done to her sucked.  That's about as dark as it gets in ME2 if I'm not mistaken.  Still it's optional and my previous impression of Jack is only mildly subdued because of what happened on that planet.
 
[quote]- Mordin struggling with what he did to an entire species[/quote]
You mentioned this already.  It's good, but it doesn't affect him once you're off.  That "Salarians process grief different from Humans" hand wave took me out of it considering that he has enough emotional fortitude to need you to help him find Maelon.

[quote]- An engineered plague on omega, people locked in their homes as they die while human looters wait for them to keel over to steal their possesions[/quote]
If it were presented that way I would agree that it is dark.  In fact I wish it were presented that way and then when we get to see Harbinger we get something that signifies anger towards us.  I would then have some feeling that this guy needs to be put down.  Unfortunately it's not done that way.  

[quote]- A father who designed 2 women, wants to control them. Fighting to keep them free but debating if it's whats best for the younger[/quote]
I saved Oriana for Oriana's sake.  I didn't do it for Miranda "look at the sexy body my dad engineered for me that I'm so tormented about it....no go ahead and look over how I'm shaped and my beautiful features...woe is me" Lawson.  The characterization of Miranda...before I found out she was a genetic experiment I didn't like her.  After I found out about it I started to feel sorry for her, but when she gets into it with Jack about her childhood and shows no compassion I'm right back to not liking her.  

When she continues to bring up her genetic manipulation due to her father I don't care anymore.

[quote]- Liara's friend Feron has been locked away for 2 years... all to save you.[/quote]
You get that from the comic right?  Probably a good thing I didn't see the comics to purchase them considering how dlc is doled out for ME2.  I don't want to pay for scraps of stories just so they all add up to one fine main meal.  Smacks too much of paying to dumpster dive.  You'll find true gems...after you sift through all the crap.  

[quote]- Garrus tried to make Omega a better place, but he got his entire team killed and barely made it out. He's scarred for life physically now too.[/quote]
That he tried to make Omega better is great, but it is futile.  That his entire team was killed save two is a bit dark, but keep in mind that he didn't barely escape/make it out.  He was removed from the situation entirely.

[quote]- Zaeed's mission of revenge against the man that ruined his life and blew off half his face.[/quote]
I can see the conflict we would have had had Zaeed gone off to chase Vido down while we do what the mission parameters were: save the workers.  Unfortunately it was we either go down path A or path B and we still get Zaeed to work with us.  He never has a moment were we're worried he'll undermine the mission.  Things are getting on as rosy as can be as far as we're concerned.

[quote]- Kasumi's lover's memories being a trophy of a billionaire. She has to struggle if she should delete these or not.[/quote]
That bit is touching.  She doesn't so much struggle as wait for you to give her a push in either direction.  If left to it herself she would have kept it.  Of course default will be that the graybox is destroyed however.

[quote]- Thane's mission/loyalty. You were watching civilians get mowed down then you yourself mow down a skyscraper full of people to get to 1 man. In his loyalty mission you saw how terrible of a father he was, and how he got his wife killed.[/quote]
That's an example of the overblown nature of the game.  I would say that offers a point to how Michael Bay-ish people are saying the game is no?  Still it's not dark or gritty.  It's pretty senseless.  His loyalty mission...is a mite touching.  Still not an example of how dark the game is as Kolyak didn't get into the assassin game to spite his father.

[quote]- WATCHING HUMANS GET LIQUIFIED[/quote]
...is akin to horror.  Had you seen that before you go to Horizon it would have made the atmosphere darker.  Because you see it near the end does nothing because there's no one left to save.  Add to that the fact that you defeat the Collectors and the game gives you the idea that the mass culling for a baby reaper slushie is a one shot deal.  You still have no idea what's on the horizon.

[quote]- Watching teammates die because of your decision.[/quote]
Considering how much harder it is to kill people off than it is to save them I'm not going to give you a dark or gritty stamp for this one either.  My first run through the only person I lost was Mordin.  With the combinations of people I used on subsequent playthroughs I only lost Mordin.  When I found out that you can give him the escort mission I lost not a soul ever again.

[quote]- Garrus either blowing Sidonis's head off or forgiving him, but the steps he took to get there anyway were brutal.[/quote]
Shows evidence that Garrus was in a dark place.  I wish it played out like that for the rest of us who are supposed to get an idea of this dark and gritty world.

[quote]- The fate of the collectors... they are repurposed tools. Could that be us?[/quote]
That idea does nothing for me.  It affected me much like the "they're going to go after Earth" line which is to say it didn't worry me one bit.  Characterization of the Collectors would have gone a long way to establish something so we could feel empathy for the Collectors.  

[quote]- Colonies of people... vanishing. The bodies that are left behind on horizon are frozen... watching their captors pick them up one by one to some unknown fate[/quote]
That's good, but then nothing substantial or intelligent is done with it.  They began setting a strong foundation and then left it incomplete and put a straw house on top.  

[quote]- People who are barely teenagers signing up as mercs, getting face blown off in first minute of combat[/quote]
That's an example of stupidity on their part.  That's not an example of dark to me.

[quote]- You are basically DEAD at the beginning[/quote]
Ridiculous. Stupid. Unnecessary.

[quote]- Normandy destroyed...[/quote]
See above.

[quote]- You can get your entire crew liquified.[/quote]
That works in the end game, but you're already there to stop the Collectors.  What difference does it make that you witness them melted into brown goo.  It's was horrific, but it doesn't stop what I'm there to do.



[quote]Not to mention you are allied with an avowed enemy, getting no support on the home front from the alliance or whoever you get instated as councillor or the council themselves. You're working with an AI, you're unable to save the hundreds of thousands of colonists that are going missing. Best you can do is stop MORE from getting abducted.[/quote]

The bolded part pissed me off more than anything.  It didn't make me want to look for the collectors.  It made me want to find out how the hell TIM got to the Council and the Alliance to have them virutally abandon me.  In ME3 I want an option to put two in TIM's head.  It's still not an example of dark atmosphere. 




[quote]If what you posted was all you took away as the dark mood of the story... there is no helping you. I can understand not enjoying the game as much as the first one, but your argument was very weak.[/quote]

You say this like I need help.  My argument satisfies my likes and dislikes.  It shows what I took away from this shallow (putting it mildly) dark mood that is supposed to exist.  I believe I gave my description of what I consider dark.  If I didn't here it is:  If I had to work with Cerberus because they and they alone seemed to have the means to provide considerable tactics, strategies, and/or weaponry that would help me in my goal of stopping the reaper threat and in order to get it I had to turn a blind eye to their nefarious research methods, then that would be an example of a dark atmosphere for the story.  Because that's not present I can't call it dark.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I guess if that's how you judge it, then you'd be right by that standard. 

Thanks for the acknowledgment. 

I think this is simply a by-product of BioWare contradicting their original idea of a planned trilogy and making each ME game stand-alone, though. ME2 is quite literally stand-alone. They really meant it when that said they wanted to make the games new-player-friendly. I wonder what this means for ME3, but then, who's in their right mind would start from the THIRD chapter? I just don't see it, but apparently potential customers > current (and loyal) customers.

[Nightwriter]

I don't think they should have gone that way.

Instead I think they should have made the ME2 segment of the overarching plot so enticing story-wise it practically commanded people to go back and play game 1 so they could understand it. 

In my fantasy bubble world this is even possible.

[smudboy]

RoninOmega wrote...

I personally think mass effect 2 had better story, character, and was aiming for better mechanics, and the game engine was definitely improved for the game, but the weapons and armor, vehicle, and level design is pretty bad, level design because most of the time it felt like I was playing levels similar in design to shooters, where it is a one way path, and then you just get transported back to the normandy... It's a better alternative to same level desgin, but it should be improved to not have that feeling either.

[Therion942]

Nightwriter wrote...

I don't think they should have gone that way.

Instead I think they should have made the ME2 segment of the overarching plot so enticing story-wise it practically commanded people to go back and play game 1 so they could understand it. 

In my fantasy bubble world this is even possible.

I miss the days of proper expansion packs where the first game was actually required to even play its 2nd act.

[Fiery Phoenix]

At this point, there is no reason to make ME3 stand-alone. Well, at least not as much as ME2 was. In the end, I can understand and accept ME2 as it is, but if ME3 turns out to be another seemingly unrelated game, then, as much as I hate to say it, the Mass Effect trilogy will have failed. And I refuse to even think about this being a possibility, but since when does the wind blow in accordance with a ship's desire?

[Nozybidaj]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

At this point, there is no reason to make ME3 stand-alone. Well, at least not as much as ME2 was. In the end, I can understand and accept ME2 as it is, but if ME3 turns out to be another seemingly unrelated game, then, as much as I hate to say it, the Mass Effect trilogy will have failed. And I refuse to even think about this being a possibility, but since when does the wind blow in accordance with a ship's desire?

They've already said ME3 will be a stand-alone experience.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the end you find yourself having defeated XYZ and are waiting on the Reaper's coming invasion.

[smudboy]

I just read Therion942's signature.

It made me smile.

Modifié par smudboy, 15 octobre 2010 - 08:14 .

[darth_lopez]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

ME2's story ended exactly where ME1's did. Therefore, no overall progress. Therefore, not a sequel. Therefore, BioWare took the whole stand-alone nonsense way too far, and that's exactly the whole reason behind this.

So at the end of ME1, the Collectors had been destroyed, and their base and the proto-Reaper therein had either been destroyed or turned over to Cerberus? 

I guess I missed that part of ME1.

ME2's main plot != the overarching plot

At the end of ME1, we are told the Reapers are coming. At the end of ME2, we are told (shown, actually) the Reapers are coming. No difference. We basically ran in circles.

LOTSB is ME1's true continuation, in my opinion. The most dangerous information broker in the galaxy has been replaced with a loyal friend, Liara, whose help will most definitely prove invaluable in the upcoming battle against the Reapers with all the information she now has.

Taking out the Collectors is good in its own right, but as long as it has done nothing to the overarching plot, it is, well, nothing.

I guess if that's how you judge it, then you'd be right by that standard. 

Hold on now Killing the collectors has established that the reapers needs us, potentially for Reproduction, and Forced the Reapers into the Open. The point of ME 2 was to assemble a team to take into ME 3 XD sorta of redundent but when the main point of The Empire Strikes Back was for luke to become a jedi and he doesn't finish his training to become a jedi we end up back where we started someone not a jedi trying to fight the empire and kill it. which is where star wars starts >.>. ME 2 much like TESB  only advances the plot if you have seen/played the first one and only stages it for the final Episode ME 3 just like TESB only really staged us for ROTJ Luke gets a few new powers, still isn't a jedi and loses a hand, then he resolves to fight lord vader and turn him over killing him, big reveal Vader is his father.

similarly

Shepard gets a few new squad mates, Also loses a few body parts i'm sure, Becomes a spectre in Name only again,  Resolves to either fight repears with what we got OR use their own tech against them, big reveal reapers don't just kill us they harvest us for something (possibly and heavily hinted reproduction).

Very similar in that both only stage us for the conclusion and only advance story slightly.

[Mox Ruuga]

Nozybidaj wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

At this point, there is no reason to make ME3 stand-alone. Well, at least not as much as ME2 was. In the end, I can understand and accept ME2 as it is, but if ME3 turns out to be another seemingly unrelated game, then, as much as I hate to say it, the Mass Effect trilogy will have failed. And I refuse to even think about this being a possibility, but since when does the wind blow in accordance with a ship's desire?

They've already said ME3 will be a stand-alone experience.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the end you find yourself having defeated XYZ and are waiting on the Reaper's coming invasion.

Yeah, it will be another stand alone game. I wonder if the PR will start claiming this was the plan all along...  Perhaps we'd better start collecting all the PR from when ME1 was released, that talked about how revolutionary the trilogy would be in allowing our choices to resonate through all three games?

My main worry is, that with the middle episode essentially wasted pissing in the wind, the defeat of the Reapers will be accomplished by some unconvincing deus ex machina. I'd rather they weren't defeated at all, and Shepard only managing to postpone the invasion for the next generation to fight off, than that.

[Fiery Phoenix]

smudboy wrote...

I just read Therion942's signature.

It made me smile.

It's so true, isn't? LOTSB is the first part of the actual ME2 in my books.

The funny thing is, we are told from the very beginning that the ME trilogy is a planned trilogy and will feature an import utility that carries your decisions through the three chapters. Some time later, world turns and we are told the exact opposite -- that the games will be stand-alone in order for them to appeal "for new players". What kind of player would want to start Mass Effect from Z?

I don't mean to sound negative, but I just can't seem to think of a reason actually justifying this -- other than the $$$.

[Frybread76]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

At this point, there is no reason to make ME3 stand-alone. Well, at least not as much as ME2 was. In the end, I can understand and accept ME2 as it is, but if ME3 turns out to be another seemingly unrelated game, then, as much as I hate to say it, the Mass Effect trilogy will have failed. And I refuse to even think about this being a possibility, but since when does the wind blow in accordance with a ship's desire?

They've already said ME3 will be a stand-alone experience.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the end you find yourself having defeated XYZ and are waiting on the Reaper's coming invasion.

Yeah, it will be another stand alone game. I wonder if the PR will start claiming this was the plan all along...  Perhaps we'd better start collecting all the PR from when ME1 was released, that talked about how revolutionary the trilogy would be in allowing our choices to resonate through all three games?

My main worry is, that with the middle episode essentially wasted pissing in the wind, the defeat of the Reapers will be accomplished by some unconvincing deus ex machina. I'd rather they weren't defeated at all, and Shepard only managing to postpone the invasion for the next generation to fight off, than that.

Bummer.  Then, in ME3, we'll have a new squad and new henchmen to fight with the Reaper invasion in the background.

[kraidy1117]

If ME3 squad is a bunch of new comers, then ME2's main story was a waste of time. The middle of the trilogy is ment to adavnce the story, setting up the last part.

Empire strikes back=You find out Darth Vader is Lukes father. A couple of other events happpen. This leads up to the epic end(which the Ewoks ruined)

Two Towers=Saruman is defeated, dealing a huge blow to Sauron. Plus Frodo and Sam are closer to mount Doom. All of this leads to the final battle in part three.

ME2 did nothing like that, nothing advances the overall the story. All we did was run around recruiting these people to stop threat that came out of no where.The game ends just like ME. The only thing that advanced the overall story was DLC and that should not happen. ME2 story was a joke, it was the side stories and LotSB that make ME2 interesting.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 15 octobre 2010 - 08:31 .

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...
My main worry is, that with the middle episode essentially wasted pissing in the wind, the defeat of the Reapers will be accomplished by some unconvincing deus ex machina. I'd rather they weren't defeated at all, and Shepard only managing to postpone the invasion for the next generation to fight off, than that.

Agreed.  Not only does it seem like a waste to take an enitre chapter of the trilogy to do.... well nothing, it also forces the last chapter to shoehorn in a very quick and dirty ending.  Of course, again, this assumes there will be a definitive ending to it.  I'm actually doubting we'll see much of a "reaper threat" or defeat them at all in ME3.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Now that I think about it; if at the very least the ME2 squadmates (whoever survived from them anyway) come back to help us in ME3, then ME2 will be more meaningful. Otherwise, like Kraidy said, ME2 is a complete waste of a chapter.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 15 octobre 2010 - 08:36 .

[Therion942]

I can't tell if I'm more or less forgiving than you guys, I won't bawl too much if none of the new band doesn't come back, I'd settle for any decision I've made in the game not ending with Shepard looking at his personal terminal or a one-off conversation.

[kraidy1117]

Oh it's possible to do the Reaper threat in ME3 well. It all depends if Bioware is wiling to fix there mistakes. Judging by LotSB and future story bridging DLC coming out, that will advance the story(which should be free, no matter the resources going in to it, things that advance the story that should be in the game should not have a price tag) it's possible mE3 will end the trilogy amazing with a great ending to the Reaper threat and show the war we want. Of ocurse this will only happen if ME3 is not focused on new comers, which I doubt will not happen. BW is all about money now, thanks to the rEApers.

[kraidy1117]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Now that I think about it; if at the very least the ME2 squadmates (whoever survived from them anyway) come back to help us in ME3, then ME2 will be more meaningful. Otherwise, like Kraidy said, ME2 is a complete waste of a chapter.

Well instead of lotSB and future story bridging DLC

But that has a price tag <_<

[Nightwriter]

This is what it seemed like.

They didn’t know how to occupy us betweens game 1 and 3. They needed a stall tactic.

So they invented this throwaway enemy and gave us new characters to play with while they went in a back room and planned the rest of the actual story.

ME2 plays like it had 10,000 people working on its environment, art, gameplay, and outfit design, and like 2 people working on its story.

 

[kraidy1117]

Therion942 wrote...

I can't tell if I'm more or less forgiving than you guys, I won't bawl too much if none of the new band doesn't come back, I'd settle for any decision I've made in the game not ending with Shepard looking at his personal terminal or a one-off conversation.

Your more forgiving then me. I will consider ME2 the middle chapter simply because of LotSB and how a three hour DLC advanced the plot better then a 35 hour game.

[Nozybidaj]

kraidy1117 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Now that I think about it; if at the very least the ME2 squadmates (whoever survived from them anyway) come back to help us in ME3, then ME2 will be more meaningful. Otherwise, like Kraidy said, ME2 is a complete waste of a chapter.

Well instead of lotSB and future story bridging DLC

But that has a price tag <_<

Meh, it would have been nice if the main game had actually had importance.  Regardless of how much some folks like LotSB, many (myself included) haven't played it.  Relying on the DLC to tell the story is beyond lame.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

This is what it seemed like.

They didn’t know how to occupy us betweens game 1 and 3. They needed a stall tactic.

So they invented this throwaway enemy and gave us new characters to play with while they went in a back room and planned the rest of the actual story.

ME2 plays like it had 10,000 people working on its environment, art, gameplay, and outfit design, and like 2 people working on its story.

 

Pretty much Night. I know we don't agree on characters, but when it comes to the story I agree with you 100%

Modifié par kraidy1117, 15 octobre 2010 - 08:42 .

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

This is what it seemed like.

They didn’t know how to occupy us betweens game 1 and 3. They needed a stall tactic.

So they invented this throwaway enemy and gave us new characters to play with while they went in a back room and planned the rest of the actual story.

ME2 plays like it had 10,000 people working on its environment, art, gameplay, and outfit design, and like 2 people working on its story.

 

Sadly, this strikes me as the best case scenerio for ME 2

[Nozybidaj]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Pretty much Nozy. I know we don't agree on characters, but when it comes to the story I agree with you 100%

You either quoted the wrong post, otherwise I didn't say that.  Not that I don't agree with it, but still....