815 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

smudboy wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I found the combat to be better and I though the plot was better than ME1(better characters).

:lol:

[smudboy]

wizardryforever wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I can judge a game on whatever I damn well please, thank you very much.
ME had a great plot, and it was told well. It wasn't perfect, but as far as sci-fi stories go, it was pretty well put together and executed.
Story gives ANYTHING value, meaning, and purpose. The plot gives the story value. It makes the explosions, the shooting, the things you do, mean something to me. It motivates that player.
What? You said plot didn't matter? How come Jacob didn't feel like a character in a story? How dare you contradict yourself! I am now confused, and am going to laugh at myself in the mirror for bothering with your silly complex thoughts of chaos.

Who are you referring to with this?  It's uncharacteristically vague as to who you are pointing to.  If it's me, I never argued that story meant nothing, only that gameplay means something, a very significant something almost equal to story.  I fail to see how ME1's plot was SO much better than ME2's.  Sure, I'll agree that it was better, but not so much that ME2 is a complete letdown because of it.  They both have issues and plotholes, which you have made abundantly clear (about ME2 anyway) in almost all of your posts on this board.

The guy who said "plot has nothing to do with a game."

Let's see.  If ME2 is a continuation of ME1?  Then yes, it's a let down.  A huge one.  ME2 didn't develop the overarching plot one bit.  It told us the Reapers are coming.  Really?

The expected thing would be to develop the plot: ME1 taught us about the enemy we need to defeat.  So logically, ME2 should've been about how we go about defeating it, or figuring out when they'll come and attack us, or any number of motives about our big bad guys.  ME3 would then be enacting that plan, and the the struggle we were preparing for in ME2.  Instead, we get a proxy war from our supposed bad guys who are trying to build a Human Reaper for absolutely no explainable reason.

But instead, at the end of ME2, we're in exactly the same position we were in at the end of ME1, the Reapers are coming.  Although now, the Council has gone stupid, our pistols run out of "ammo", and we can sell a live Geth and blow up a base that makes the enemy we're trying to stop.  Woo.  Nice development.

[Mongerty]

smudboy wrote...

But instead, at the end of ME2, we're in exactly the same position we were in at the end of ME1, the Reapers are coming.  Although now, the Council has gone stupid, our pistols run out of "ammo", and we can sell a live Geth and blow up a base that makes the enemy we're trying to stop.  Woo.  Nice development.

Well, you don't really know how the allies and choices you made in Mass Effect 2 will affect Mass Effect 3.
Including, but not limited to:
Fate of Collector Base
Geth and Quarian conflict
Shadow Broker  (Liara)
Cerberus Support/ Opposition
Sheperd cybernetic implants
Geth in General (Legion's mission)


Going by your standards, the Rebellion wasn't any closer to defeating the Empire at the end of Empire Strikes back, so it was a terrible movie according to how the trilogy works.

[Razorsedge820]

I think the only thing Mass Effect 1 has over Mass Effect 2 is that it was better written, other than that ME2 was an improvement across the board.

[Iakus]

smudboy wrote...

Story gives ANYTHING value, meaning, and purpose. The plot gives the story value. It makes the explosions, the shooting, the things you do, mean something to me. It motivates that player.

This.

A lot.

I repeat.

This.

A lot.

Modifié par iakus, 05 octobre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Phaedon]

smudboy wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I found the combat to be better and I though the plot was better than ME1(better characters).

Because we all know how good the character development in ME1 was... :innocent:

[Iakus]

Mongerty wrote...

smudboy wrote...

But instead, at the end of ME2, we're in exactly the same position we were in at the end of ME1, the Reapers are coming.  Although now, the Council has gone stupid, our pistols run out of "ammo", and we can sell a live Geth and blow up a base that makes the enemy we're trying to stop.  Woo.  Nice development.

Well, you don't really know how the allies and choices you made in Mass Effect 2 will affect Mass Effect 3.
Including, but not limited to:
Fate of Collector Base
Geth and Quarian conflict
Shadow Broker  (Liara)
Cerberus Support/ Opposition
Sheperd cybernetic implants
Geth in General (Legion's mission)


Going by your standards, the Rebellion wasn't any closer to defeating the Empire at the end of Empire Strikes back, so it was a terrible movie according to how the trilogy works.

Or they could blow up the Normandy again, Shepard could spend a couple of more years dead, and we start again with Normandy #3 and a whole new crew working for, oh, I don't know, the Blood Pack, maybe. 

The problem is, we have no idea what matters anymore.  There were plenty of choices made in ME 1 that should have had an effect in ME 2, but ended up meaning squat. 

Council lives or dies (and if dies, is a new human or alien Council formed)
Sell Cerberus information to Shadow Broker or not.
Wrex lives or dies
Who you save on Virmire
Anderson or Udina on Council
Paragon or renegade Garrus

All of those should have had at least some effect on ME 2, but all was rendered esesntially meaningless.  A few lines of dialogue change, but that's it.  Who's to say they won't do the same in ME 3 to keep it "standalone"?

This is why I don't speculate on what ME 3 will encompass.  We've been given no assurances that our decisions mean anything, no indication what direction the story could go in,
 
At least at the end of Empire, we learned Darth Vader's identity, Luke had received training as a Jedi, and Han and Leia declared their love for each other. 

Modifié par iakus, 05 octobre 2010 - 09:13 .

[smudboy]

Mongerty wrote...

smudboy wrote...

But instead, at the end of ME2, we're in exactly the same position we were in at the end of ME1, the Reapers are coming.  Although now, the Council has gone stupid, our pistols run out of "ammo", and we can sell a live Geth and blow up a base that makes the enemy we're trying to stop.  Woo.  Nice development.

Well, you don't really know how the allies and choices you made in Mass Effect 2 will affect Mass Effect 3.
Including, but not limited to:
Fate of Collector Base
Geth and Quarian conflict
Shadow Broker  (Liara)
Cerberus Support/ Opposition
Sheperd cybernetic implants
Geth in General (Legion's mission)


Going by your standards, the Rebellion wasn't any closer to defeating the Empire at the end of Empire Strikes back, so it was a terrible movie according to how the trilogy works.

Please do not compare ME2 to TESB. It's been done to death, and it has very, very little in common.

The only thing that matters, which is what I already listed, was the Collector Base: but that can be blown up.  Ditto with Legion: but Legion can be sold.  These are the two, unavoidable choices.

So whoopedy-freaking-do.

Let's face it, the story is shattered.  They'll be making another ME2, cause that's what ME3's going to be.

[theBioticGod]

Sajuro wrote...

I found the combat to be better and I though the plot was better than ME1(better characters).

I liked characters in ME2 more.
The first Mass Effect had characters like Kaiden and Ashley, who are probably my least favorite, while Mass Effect 2 had the Biotic God.

[brgillespie]

Gillespie's Guide to Participating in ME1 vs. ME2 Threads

Type the following statement: {insert "ME1" or "ME2"} is better than {insert opposite of selected game placed in first bracket} because {insert justifications that are personal opinion and impossible to prove/disprove}.

{optional: go hardcore nerd and make a bullet-point list of reasoning supporting your choice}

{bonus points: when posting your thoughts, act like the below picture if someone disagrees with you; this is your favorite game, after all... dissenting opinions are to be crushed}

Modifié par brgillespie, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:18 .

[ScooterPie88]

My compalint with ME1 was that it felt like it took years to complete (doing all sidequests is just a chore with few exceptions). In ME2 at least the sidequests were varied and there were only like 20 and you can complete all of them in 2.5 to 3 hours. I also think ME2 improved the mechanics of the game. Instead of having the upgrades making unlimited fire (no overheat possible) you actually had to stop once in awhile. It also added location specific damage instead of just shooting at the head for 10 minutes and it not making any difference. The overall DLC has been improved. I mean sure BDTS was fun but let's face it Pinnacle Station was the most frustrating piece of garbage ever to disgrace some of our consoles. And there was little payoff. I like the stories of both games equally. Does ME2 have its problems? Certainly but Bioware has listened and been much more responsive in fixing them (planet scanning much improved from release). Overall I think ME2 made many improvements that I think most of us appreciate.

Modifié par ScooterPie88, 06 octobre 2010 - 03:08 .

[marshalleck]

Brodyaha wrote...

Forgive me for being ignorant, but how is ME2 less of an, "epic space opera?"

...

 Both feature Shepard as a hero.  ME1 was more linear, and ME2 was more episodic,

Answered your own question. 

[StarcloudSWG]

I dont' know. In ME 1, we learned about the Reapers and stopped their Plan A.

In ME 2, we learned the Reapers had a Plan B and stopped that too.

[sumof all fear]

I think for me it boils down to atmosphere. There are just a lot of little things that made mass effect feel more Sci-Fi than the squeal like the lighting the constant electronic music even the level layout.



There was more disconnect between nature and developed areas, in mass effect 2 it felt like the structures belonged where as in the original most of them were some sort of space portable pod based structure, albeit that many of these were the type of building strewn across the planets you would be exploring with the mayko, and lacking this functionality removed that feeling entirely.



Removing the mayko and the planet exploration feature did change how the game felt to me, it felt enclosed, controlled and restricted, where as the first game even if you did not use or like the mayko you knew you could go explore just about anywhere and that made the game feel big which is very important for a Sci-fi video game.



The flotilla felt like a planet, i'm sorry but there was just not enough reinforcement that you are on a migrating fleet of starships. which I felt was a major letdown. don't get me wrong, i understand that it should feel like a recreation of a planet as the inhabitants would strive for this, but they included so much flora in traditional growing positions and had so much overhead space (wasted space on a starship) that it ultimately felt like a building, had they made it feel more claustrophobic and added in some sort of zero grav feature or something the effect would probably have felt more appropriate, to me anyways.



Everything was dirty, again this is an atmosphere building complaint not that it wasn't all gorgeous and hi def and delicious looking, but stuff was scuffed and smeared and dirty. and lets get one thing straight, dirty dull and brown may be realistic and such, but bold colors with high contrast and stark shadows will always be more visually appealing, and in a Sci-Fi game they will enhance the player's experience by reinforcing the idea that time has passed since when the player exists and when the characters exist, it sets the game world apart from the modern world.



So yea, characters, writing, primary story and combat were all epic and fantastic but I think the overall atmosphere of the sequel was lacking compared to the first game.

[Arijharn]

I think one of the big problems with ME2's story was that there was no real surprise of immediate gravity to it. So what honestly if the Collector's are re-purposed Protheans? This pales into insignificance when we got the 'wtf' moment when we learnt what a Reaper was in ME1 when one just decides to talk to us out of the blue, because then the stakes are raised, we know the Reapers destroyed the Protheans, an entire civilisation that was spread out across the galaxy and now we know they want to come back?

[Iakus]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

I dont' know. In ME 1, we learned about the Reapers and stopped their Plan A.
In ME 2, we learned the Reapers had a Plan B and stopped that too.

In ME 1, we find out what exactly Sovereign was out to do:  Open dark space relay, usher in new cycle of destruction. 

What was Plan B?

Sure we learned about the Human Smoothie Project and the baby Reaper.  But what was it for?  What were they trying to accomplish? 

[DarthCaine]

The haters are just a vocal minority, the majority prefers ME2 over ME1

http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/4081/
http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/

GameSpot User Scores:
ME1: 9.1 360, 8.9 PC
ME2: 9.4 360, 9.3 PC
(you can check other sites if you want, in every last one ME2 has a higher user score)

Sales

My mini review

Disliked:
-No armor for squad mates
-Effects of ME1 choices (though every realist saw this coming, it's the same in every BioWare game)
-Too many squad mates (by the time I recruited them all, I forgot about the ones I already have)
-Scanning (still, I'd rather scan a planet than go up 90 degrees hills just to get to an even more annoying minigame)
-Glitches
-No helmet toggle
-No skipping opening scene (still, it's better than ME1 where NO scenes were skippable)
-Box-art (worst ever)
-Very little armor parts
-A few unexplained plot holes
-Arnold Schwarzenegger (though not much worse than Zombie Cyborg Jumping Frog)

Liked:
-No mako
-Easier to manage equipment
-More cinematic
-More emotional
-Better written new interesting characters (ME1's squad mates were the most boring characters BioWare has ever made)
-Shepard speaks more often thus giving him more personality
-More Humor (than in ME1)
-Profanity (the more, the merrier I say)
-Better environments
-More atmospheric (Afterlife, Omega, Illium)
-Much better music (than  ME1's)
-Every weapon is different
-Biotics are awesome (unlike ME1)
-Better Powers
-Awesome combat
-New xp system
-Much better side quests
-Ammo
-Tougher decisions (thought still not tough enough, BioWare should take cues from The Witcher)
-Better easter eggs

Modifié par DarthCaine, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:04 .

[Slayer299]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

I dont' know. In ME 1, we learned about the Reapers and stopped their Plan A.
In ME 2, we learned the Reapers had a Plan B and stopped that too.

 What was Plan B exactly? Kidnapping Humans to make a Human Reaper was their Plan B? Because that made zero sense whatsover, how was that going to get the rest of the Reapers out of Dark Space?

[StarcloudSWG]

iakus wrote...

In ME 1, we find out what exactly Sovereign was out to do:  Open dark space relay, usher in new cycle of destruction.  

What was Plan B?

Sure we learned about the Human Smoothie Project and the baby Reaper.  But what was it for?  What were they trying to accomplish? 

Build a Reaper secretly, have it start sneaking about Alliance space, converting people into Indoctrinated servants, and eventually have the Alliance take over the Citadel, then open the front door from inside again. 

[Frybread76]

wizardryforever wrote...

Okay, there seems to be a lot of things that people like more about ME1 than the equivalent things in ME2.  The main question I have is why?  Be honest with us (and yourself) here.  Is at least part of the reason you like ME1 better because of nostalgia?  "Why did they change it, now it sucks!" is something I read all too frequently on these forums.  If you played ME2, then went back and played ME1 (nevermind story continuity here) could you honestly say that you would still like ME1 more?

I personally liked almost everything in ME2 better than in ME1, everything was an improvement to me.

I thought the main story in ME1 was better, as well as the way biotic/tech powers were done.  I also liked that each character had more powers or skills.

Although the inventory was a mess in ME1, I do like the fact that there was an inventory, because I like to upgrade weapons and armors.

[Slayer299]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

iakus wrote...

In ME 1, we find out what exactly Sovereign was out to do:  Open dark space relay, usher in new cycle of destruction.  

What was Plan B?

Sure we learned about the Human Smoothie Project and the baby Reaper.  But what was it for?  What were they trying to accomplish? 

Build a Reaper secretly, have it start sneaking about Alliance space, converting people into Indoctrinated servants, and eventually have the Alliance take over the Citadel, then open the front door from inside again. 

There's a problem with that idea though, according to EDI it was going to take MILLIONS of humans to finish the baby Reaper, not exactly inconsequential numbers. Uhmmmm, a giant Reaper is gonna 'sneak' around Alliance space? You do realize that that sounds seriously ridiculous.

[scotchtape622]

Slayer299 wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

I dont' know. In ME 1, we learned about the Reapers and stopped their Plan A.
In ME 2, we learned the Reapers had a Plan B and stopped that too.

 What was Plan B exactly? Kidnapping Humans to make a Human Reaper was their Plan B? Because that made zero sense whatsover, how was that going to get the rest of the Reapers out of Dark Space?

Actually that was Plan C, and ME1 was Plan B.

[Iakus]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

iakus wrote...

In ME 1, we find out what exactly Sovereign was out to do:  Open dark space relay, usher in new cycle of destruction.  

What was Plan B?

Sure we learned about the Human Smoothie Project and the baby Reaper.  But what was it for?  What were they trying to accomplish? 

Build a Reaper secretly, have it start sneaking about Alliance space, converting people into Indoctrinated servants, and eventually have the Alliance take over the Citadel, then open the front door from inside again. 

Take over the Citadel how?  indoctrinate who?  And where was this mentioned?  Where was it even hinted at?  Sure building a Reaper out of human colonists constitutes as a Bad Thing, but where did they say what the end goal was?  All I saw was human smoothie, pipes, and baby Reaper. 

[wizardryforever]

iakus wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

iakus wrote...

In ME 1, we find out what exactly Sovereign was out to do:  Open dark space relay, usher in new cycle of destruction.  

What was Plan B?

Sure we learned about the Human Smoothie Project and the baby Reaper.  But what was it for?  What were they trying to accomplish? 

Build a Reaper secretly, have it start sneaking about Alliance space, converting people into Indoctrinated servants, and eventually have the Alliance take over the Citadel, then open the front door from inside again. 

Take over the Citadel how?  indoctrinate who?  And where was this mentioned?  Where was it even hinted at?  Sure building a Reaper out of human colonists constitutes as a Bad Thing, but where did they say what the end goal was?  All I saw was human smoothie, pipes, and baby Reaper. 

That's the mystery.  Something I hope we find out more about in ME3.  Just because it ends with a mystery doesn't mean that it's a plothole, just that it's something that will be explained later.  It is meant to be something we wonder about until the next installment, not whine about how it wasn't explained.

[StarcloudSWG]

"Space is big. Really big. Not just "oh, it's a long walk to the corner grocery" big, but really, inconceivably, impossibly big."

Yes, Reapers are large. However, space is larger. A single Reaper could well "sneak" in Alliance space. For those who disbelieve this, I'd like to point out Sovereign literally dropped in undetected onto Eden Prime already. 

Yes, it would take millions, maybe billions of humans to finish the Reaper. But not all. The comment about hitting Earth is speculation on the parts of the characters, not necessarily actually part of the Collector's plan.

As for whom they'd indoctrinate.. everyone they could. Susceptible species. Vorcha in particular already seem to have been on "the list" of useful tools.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .