203 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

Maybe I got the wrong picture, but I can't imagine enemies just running away from Shepard or not shooting when you are in close range. I have yet to see this. The "be more aggressive advice" is about storming spawn points and using Charge as often as possible to recharge barrier. Not that if you charge you will screw enemy AI.

edit: I had already posted this when I read edit of your previous post, Simbacca.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:01 .

[Zalade]

Charge, shoot, get to cover, not hard but needs some planning ahead, and take your time weakening the enemies with your long/mid ranger before you charge in if you think they might live to tell the tale of the charge.

[Simbacca]

Kronner wrote...

Maybe I got the wrong picture, but I can't imagine enemies just running away from Shepard or not shooting when you are in close range. I have yet to see this. The "be more aggressive advice" is about storming spawn points and using Charge as often as possible to recharge barrier. Not that if you charge you will screw enemy AI.

As I said, I've seen it posted as such in insanity help threads by multiple forum members.  I guess you weren't among them. 

Anyway the only reason I brought it all up was because ryoldschool had a similar experience.  Up until now, I've only had my own personal experience to go on, along with my inability to recorded my xbox gameplay, so there was always a chance it was just me.  Now another xbox user, and someone who has been on this forum for quite some time, has had this experience as well.  My curiousity is piqued.

[Kronner]

I am not saying it is not different on xbox, I never played that version of ME2.

I've just never noticed any strange behaviour when fighting in close range (the "confusion" you described) and that I am pretty sure enemies shoot at me all the time in close range, is all I am saying

Modifié par Kronner, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:13 .

[ashwind]

XD

Did some test run - Mordin mission, 3 guys behind cover scene - Lv4 no Heavy Charge.

Charge like shown in video (didnt use Warp explosion)- The moment the 1st enemy dies, the other 2 gang up on me and I died 

Twice, send in team members to draw fire, Charge, the other 2 seems to be occupied, notice a slight delay before they actually turn their attention to me.

Just a theory - if the enemies are locked on you, they will attack you immediately but if they were locked on other targets prior to the Charge, there will be a slight delay.

Modifié par ashwind, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:24 .

[evolveNZ]

The warp explosion is a better delay, do it. And then after you shoot them in the face with a Claymore or charged GPS, there's a looong delay... still waiting for any of them to get up from that.

[curly haired boy]

vanguard doesn't need knowledge of a level beforehand to do extremely well.



case in point: my first experience of SB was with my insanity vanguard. i basically charged in and wiped the floor with much of it - but then was overcome with the strange impulse to reload the saves and play certain sections over again.



why? i suspect i have mentally tied playing as vanguard with dying every 20 seconds. thus, despite doing GREAT on previously unknown SB levels, it didn't feel "right" unless i was hitting the "load save" button on a regular basis.



even now on insanity playthroughs, if i accidentally close off an enemy spawn point, i'll reload the save and be less aggressive so i can get the full number of enemies.



i think i need professional help.

[ryoldschool]

Lauzli - I just looked more closely at the video, and it looks like ( he even mentions) he is using squad powers right after the charge to stagger targets. With xbox will have to pause to fire off squad powers ( you can assign to the dpad, but its unreliable because unless you are standing still, and sometimes even then, the dpad will direct squadmate to a place instead of firing a power ).



I'm going to do some N7 actions to get to the next level and retry those areas with Heavy charge and pausing to pop squad powers. Actually that is one of the reasons I like playing soldier - I put squad powers on auto because I don't do combinations with them and don't have to deal with the unreliable dpad actions.

[godlike13]

ryoldschool wrote...

Lauzli - I just looked more closely at the video, and it looks like ( he even mentions) he is using squad powers right after the charge to stagger targets. With xbox will have to pause to fire off squad powers ( you can assign to the dpad, but its unreliable because unless you are standing still, and sometimes even then, the dpad will direct squadmate to a place instead of firing a power ).

I'm going to do some N7 actions to get to the next level and retry those areas with Heavy charge and pausing to pop squad powers. Actually that is one of the reasons I like playing soldier - I put squad powers on auto because I don't do combinations with them and don't have to deal with the unreliable dpad actions.

D-Pad's actually not that unreliable, u just have to make sure ur properly targeted on the enemy.

[lazuli]

godlike13 wrote...
D-Pad's actually not that unreliable, u just have to make sure ur properly targeted on the enemy.

That may be, but I think we can all agree that the PC layout handles squadmate hotkeys better.

[ryoldschool]

godlike13 and lazuli - Well I did 2 n7 missions and I am at level 6 -> went with heavy charge. Just tried those first two groups on Mordin's mission ( from sino's video ). Heavy charge makes a LOT of difference, and I did not have to pause to do the warp bombs ( did not do them at all ).



I noticed that if you target the guy you want to hit, then hit Y and while you are charging you let go the left trigger ( not targeting anymore ) it puts you in a better position to shoot when the charge is over. I was able to charge the guy on the right of the three in cover and retreat to cover. Sino might want to note in his video that heavy charge is required to try some of those moves.



As far as the Dpad is concerned - I have no confidence in them. I have hit dpad to apply powers in the middle of a firefight and then I almost always hear "on my way" instead of them using their powers { this could be because the power is on cooldown so the software thinks I must mean move to location -- I'm too busy dodging bullets to look to see if the power is ready. That is the big problem with having the same key do two different functions }



Also somebody had mentioned this that please on ME3 DON"T have them make (left or)right-thumb stick-click do anything because I accidently press that all the time when I am moving to cover in a hurry ( happened to me all the time in ME1 - I think it was crouch ).

[godlike13]

lazuli wrote...

godlike13 wrote...
D-Pad's actually not that unreliable, u just have to make sure ur properly targeted on the enemy.

That may be, but I think we can all agree that the PC layout handles squadmate hotkeys better.

So. The x-box layout handles overall simplicity and comfortability better, neither is here nor there. X-Box D-Pad's are actually pretty reliable, given ur targeting properly.

[godlike13]

ryoldschool wrote...

godlike13 and lazuli - Well I did 2 n7 missions and I am at level 6 -> went with heavy charge. Just tried those first two groups on Mordin's mission ( from sino's video ). Heavy charge makes a LOT of difference, and I did not have to pause to do the warp bombs ( did not do them at all ).

I noticed that if you target the guy you want to hit, then hit Y and while you are charging you let go the left trigger ( not targeting anymore ) it puts you in a better position to shoot when the charge is over. I was able to charge the guy on the right of the three in cover and retreat to cover. Sino might want to note in his video that heavy charge is required to try some of those moves.

As far as the Dpad is concerned - I have no confidence in them. I have hit dpad to apply powers in the middle of a firefight and then I almost always hear "on my way" instead of them using their powers { this could be because the power is on cooldown so the software thinks I must mean move to location -- I'm too busy dodging bullets to look to see if the power is ready. That is the big problem with having the same key do two different functions }

Also somebody had mentioned this that please on ME3 DON"T have them make (left or)right-thumb stick-click do anything because I accidently press that all the time when I am moving to cover in a hurry ( happened to me all the time in ME1 - I think it was crouch ).

Glad u see how Heavy charge makes a difference, especially with aiming. Now i definitely get where ur problems with the D-Pad comes from, but if u can get the hang of them they actually do become pretty reliable. That being said, i don't get why they couldn't have made up and down the squad power buttons for the D-Pad

[ryoldschool]

Yes, up and down would have been a lot better. I appreciate the hints everyone gave, I think I will enjoy this a lot better, and thanks to Sino for the video.

[MajFauxPas]

I gotta say I loved my imported Vanguard on Insanity, but I rarely survived Charging. Occasionally it was very useful for teleporting, getting a small shield buff and then stunning and damaging an enemy, all at once.

But it's foolish on insanity because the enemies just respawn instantly, right on top of you. You've got to have a recent playthough so you know where they will pop up from, so you can avoid Charging at enemies there. Never ends well.

In fact, I never survived an Insanity battle unless I hid in cover until it was over! Even then, I was spamming shield skills continuously, as soon as it was ready, just to keep from getting killed. IN COVER.

So the answer is: what you are doing wrong is charging too much. Don't charge offensively, charge defensively to get away from danger and to stun unsielded/armored enemies. Use the other skills offensively: Incendiary and Cryo cause great side effects on the target. Shockwave can disrupt entire groups of enemies. use a Shield skill to instantly raise your shields when exposed and in trouble.

I'm not positive but I think when you charge you pass through enemy fire unharmed. So, Harbinger's Effect fields just pass through you when you charge him. Not that you'd want to charge him....  Don't quote me on that, it WILL get you turned into bugsplat!

Modifié par MajFauxPas, 07 octobre 2010 - 07:27 .

[OniGanon]

Kronner wrote...
I've just never noticed any strange behaviour when fighting in close range (the "confusion" you described) and that I am pretty sure enemies shoot at me all the time in close range, is all I am saying

Heh, no offense dude, but how much time do you really spend NOT fighting in close range? Your videos have you in their face, like, ALL the time. ^_~

------

Seriously though, the enemy does seem especially geared toward fighting you at range, while you're in cover. In such a situation, if you stand up from cover, the enemy focuses fire on you and tears you to ribbons very quickly. It seems even more so when you get forcefully knocked out of cover my YMIR missile, Engineer Drone, Harbinger black ball etc; I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that such an event is invariably followed by EVERY DAMN ENEMY ON THE FIELD emptying a clip into your face.

And yet, in my experience, when you're up close elbowing someone's face off the enemy fails to display anything near this same level of horrifying psychic unity. The enemy doesn't turn, as if one entity, and unerringly focus all fire directly into your nostrils. If they did I would never get away with half the ridiculous things I pull off on a regular basis. Rather, their fire is sporadic and unfocused, their attention is split, their movements erratic- it's like they're panicking.

That's how it seems to me anyway. If that is indeed how it is, or if I'm just trying to rationalise my tendency to solve seemingly impossible situations by elbowing everything in the face, I don't know. If it's a difference between platforms or just a difference between my own and Simbacca's playing, I couldn't say without seeing a whole lot of videos from the 360 version.

Modifié par OniGanon, 07 octobre 2010 - 10:13 .

[SirValeq]

MajFauxPas wrote...

You've got to have a recent playthough so you know where they will pop up from, so you can avoid Charging at enemies there. Never ends well.
...
So the answer is: what you are doing wrong is charging too much
...
Not that you'd want to charge him....  Don't quote me on that, it WILL get you turned into bugsplat!

Don't give bad advice based on your bad experience. If Charge wasn't working for you it means you didn't give it enough time and trial, not that the power itself is bad for spamming.
I know that guys posting vids are good gamers but they're not superhuman. The Vanguard class is actually very casual-gamer-friendly once you spend some time learning the basics. The bonuses from Heavy Charge and Inferno Ammo let even bad shots (like myself) line up headshots in melee range with ease.

---------

OniGanon wrote...

And yet, in my experience, when you're elbowing someone's face off the enemy fails to display anything near this same level of horrifying psychic unity. The enemy doesn't turn, as if one entity, and unerringly focus all fire directly into your nostrils. If they did I would never get away with half the ridiculous things I pull off on a regular basis. Rather, their fire is sporadic and unfocused, their attention is split, their movements erratic- it's like they're panicking.

Imagine meeting somebody who can warp right into your face with a huge shotgun in real life... Wouldn't you be panicking?

Modifié par iLikeBWgames, 07 octobre 2010 - 10:11 .

[lastpatriot]

I just finished the mission to pick up Mordin and though it's hard for me not to take out the sniper (spent too much time as an infiltrator), it's really getting kind of fun as a Vanguard. I took some of the suggestions in this thread and starting doing my charge on the furthest enemy target, killing him, and then taking his cover position.



Last night, I charged a rear target, killed him, and when I turned around to take out the other two, I was surprised how they were still in combat with my team and pretty much didn't have a clue how to respond. With them in front and me in back, it was an easy battle.



I also always thought that we had to kill EVERY target that spawned and so it's really fun to charge right up behind their lines and set them up in a nasty crossfire. I'll admit though, when you make a mistake as a Vanguard, you really tend to pay hard for it. Still, with every mistake I learn something new.



I hate to say this but if I continue to have this much fun, the Vanguard may end up being my first pick in classes to play.

[ryoldschool]

I just did some more testing on those first two on Mordin's mission after looking at comments about enemy ai. I did not know this, but on xbox at least, when you press the Y button to charge, KEEP your left trigger pulled, and once you are in the charge animation pull the fire trigger. When you get out of the charge you get an immediate headshot with muzzle to the head. If you wait to pull the trigger once the charge is over then the enemy can move very quickly before you can hit them.



I tried this a bunch of times and when you pull trigger during charge you get a headshot every time. On my post last night I RELEASED the aim trigger during the charge and what this does is put you a small distance from the enemy you targeted so you can get off a shot while you are moving to cover - I used that to survive against the three guys behind cover on the section after the first two guys.



Maybe everyone knew this but I never saw it posted anywhere.

[cihimi]

pull + heavy slam = fun air time

[Simbacca]

ryoldschool wrote...

...Actually that is one of the reasons I like playing soldier - I put squad powers on auto because I don't do combinations with them and don't have to deal with the unreliable dpad actions.

Agreed.  In fact, this is how I played the first half of my Revanant Soldier run.  I gave Shepard heavy ammo types, and also gave Grunt, Jacob, and Zaeed their own heavy ammo types to play with mininal pausing and no d-pad action.  Horizon with three Inferno powered GPSs was cake, lol.  Worked great till about halfway through, when squadmate damage didn't quite keep up with rising enemy levels.  Then I switched to the squad to not using their own powers, give Shepard a squad ammo type (cryo), and starting bringing long caster allies.

ryoldschool wrote...

...As far as the Dpad is concerned - I have no confidence in them. I have hit dpad to apply powers in the middle of a firefight and then I almost always hear "on my way" instead of them using their powers { this could be because the power is on cooldown so the software thinks I must mean move to location -- I'm too busy dodging bullets to look to see if the power is ready. That is the big problem with having the same key do two different functions }...

My sentiments as well.  This alone is enough to make me want to buy the PC version of ME2, well if I ever build a new PC that is

ryoldschool wrote...

Yes, up and down would have been a lot better...

I actually like how dpad up currently focuses both party members on one enemy.  It's very helpful to me on ocassion when I'm running Squad Cryo Ammo.  But yeah, the Xbox's lack of buttons for sufficient hotkeys is unfortunate.

ryoldschool wrote...

I just did some more testing on those first two on Mordin's mission after looking at comments about enemy ai. I did not know this, but on xbox at least, when you press the Y button to charge, KEEP your left trigger pulled, and once you are in the charge animation pull the fire trigger. When you get out of the charge you get an immediate headshot with muzzle to the head. If you wait to pull the trigger once the charge is over then the enemy can move very quickly before you can hit them.

I tried this a bunch of times and when you pull trigger during charge you get a headshot every time. On my post last night I RELEASED the aim trigger during the charge and what this does is put you a small distance from the enemy youtargeted so you can get off a shot while you are moving to cover - I used that to survive against the three guys behind cover on the section after the first two guys.

Maybe everyone knew this but I never saw it posted anywhere.

Very interesting.  Good to know, thanks for sharing

sinosleep wrote...

...Also, I uploaded another tutorial. low level vanguard tutorial vol. 2 . I take on Jack's recruitment with my lvl 9 vanguard.

LMAO at the Warden's death.  Clipping Slam FTW

Modifié par Simbacca, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:23 .

[sinosleep]

low level vanguard tutorial vol. 3 is up.

[PrinceLionheart]

The whole "Pause to aim shot" tip is actually crazy helpful. I'm finally giving Vanguard on Insanity a spin (previous alternated between Veteran and Hardcore) and it's working out good.

[lastpatriot]

sinosleep wrote...

low level vanguard tutorial vol. 3 is up.

Great vid Sinosleep!  Thanks for posting this up for us.

[philiposophy]

I just did Horizon. I feel like I'm getting a lot better at the vanguard in general, as I survived going into the red much more than usual by charging as soon as I got low on health. I still have to pause quite a bit.



I also chickened out of the two scions fight at the end and just used the Cain on them. I'm dreading the Reaper IFF mission, lol.