53 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Mad Cat]

Hi all,

Just bought DAO on Saturday and I have a question regarding Dual Wielding: what are the differences between being a DW Rogue and a DW Warrior?  At some point, I'd like to play as a Rogue, but since I'm not interested in Archery, I'm going to play it as a DW with daggers, and I'd rather not have it feel like a repetition of a DW Warrior.

As a Rogue, I know you get more Skill points, you get to Backstab, you get useful abilities like Lockpicking and Trap Detection and Stealth, but you do not necessarily have access to the best armor or the most weapons, and you're DPS is best when flanking.  However, given all the beneficial abilities, the lack of armor and attacking from behind issues seem to be a small price to pay.

Conversely, as a Warrior, the ability to wear better armor and use more weapons doesn't seem to make up for the lack of so many useful abilities that the Rogue has.  So I'm think there MUST be some other benefit to dual-wielding as a Warrior, at the very least so that they even out, but I cannot see what it is.

So what am I missing here?  Why choose a DW Warrior over a DW Rogue?

[Asepsis]

I dunno if I'm just noticing things wrong, but DW talents use up less stamina over all compared to shield and sword talents for my character. So you end up being able to do more special attacks with double blades before your stamina runs out.

Again, I might just be noticing things wrong.

Modifié par Asepsis, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:50 .

[nikki191]

ive never bothered with a dual wielding warrior, ROGUES ALL THE WAY !!! plus with all the extra skills you have more to do. as for a warrior wearing heavier armour well a rogue can still wear it but the talents cost more to use, which can be balanced out with +stamina items. at full skills a rogue can dual wield 2 full sized weapons for example.

honestly i can see why bioware dropped the warrior version for DA2

Modifié par nikki191, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:00 .

[Burritos]

dw berserkers are fun

[Iz Stoik zI]

The only real reason to choose a DW Warrior over a Rogue is to wear heavier armor with less penalties to fatigue. All leather armor looks the same and is relatively boring to wear all game long, so you may want to wear something more fearsome. You might also choose one if you like the Warrior specializations more than the Rogue ones (as I do).



But from a power gaming perspective, you have to go with a Rogue. More skills and backstabs would really be nice to have.

[Elhanan]

No reason a Rogue cannot wear heavy or massive armors, as there are many good sets available that are fatigue friendly. That said, the new Battledress DLC light armor is fine to wear until later in the game.

[Jon Jern_]

The light armours are so icky :/ and it doesn't help that the custom armours found on DA Nexus are overpowered.

[Elhanan]

Icky as in appearance? Or effects?

As for heavy armor, I recommend Evons mail & Wade's Superior combo. For massive, Cailans is generous for fatigue.

[Commander Mad Cat]

Hmm, ok, the responses so far are not sounding good.

So far I see no compelling reason to play a DW Warrior over a DW Rogue, in which case, I might as well play a 2H Warrior and leave the DW for my Rogue.

Modifié par Commander Mad Cat, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Jon Jern_]

Elhanan wrote...

Icky as in appearance? Or effects?
As for heavy armor, I recommend Evons mail & Wade's Superior combo. For massive, Cailans is generous for fatigue.

In appearance.

Anyways I do reccomend a 2H Warrior. They hit hard, and if you get Indomitable, you're immune to Dirty Fighting, Shield Bash, pretty much any ability that involves been stunned or knocked down.

[Elhanan]

DW Warrior uses the activated talents more often, while the Rogue does not need to do so. While not a reason to take DW Warrior, using talents helps increase the fun factor. And as DEX is key for both DW and Archery, making a hybrid build is easier, but this is also true for Rogues.

2H is a good selection.

[Jon Jern_]

I think Rogue's are the best for Hybrids. I originally tried to make a Cunning DPS Rogue with my DW Rogue, but she ended up turning into a "Hit fast with moderate damage than use stealth to drop aggro" rogue. What are those called again? Oh yeah. Hybrids.

Actually I don't think that's what a Hybrid is. I confuse even myself with my curious builds.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 05 octobre 2010 - 07:07 .

[miltos33]

Jon Jern wrote...

The light armours are so icky :/ and it doesn't help that the custom armours found on DA Nexus are overpowered.

This is the reason why I like the Amy Outfit for female characters. It duplicates the stats of what you actually wear at the moment you put it on. So the custom armor, gloves, and boots that my current character is wearing have the exact same stats with the Battledress of the Provocateur, Red Jenny Seekers, and Bard's Dancing Shoes. To the best of my knowledge this is the only mod that allows you to look good without cheating.  

[termokanden]

Elhanan wrote...

No reason a Rogue cannot wear heavy or massive armors, as there are many good sets available that are fatigue friendly. That said, the new Battledress DLC light armor is fine to wear until later in the game.

True, although I would prefer a warrior then since rogues tend to benefit more damage-wise from cunning than strength. I still feel like rogues shouldn't need heavy armor - they should be backstabbing, and that means someone else has aggro. They can stealth too to get out of trouble.

As for Battledress, it's fine to wear all the way through the game. You might replace it with Felon's Coat when you can get that, but don't fool yourself, Battledress of the Provocateur is one of the very best armors in the game, not only in the beginning but all the way through.

[Iz Stoik zI]

Elhanan wrote...

No reason a Rogue cannot wear heavy or massive armors, as there are many good sets available that are fatigue friendly. That said, the new Battledress DLC light armor is fine to wear until later in the game.

Just a quick question and I don't mean to derail  the topic, but what leather armor is better than the battledress?

The only thing I can think of is Felon's Coat maybe. Even in my Awakening partial play through I still have Nathaniel using the Battledress.

If there were more good leather armors and if leather armor didn't look so plain then I think I'd use it more often.

Modifié par Iz Stoik zI, 05 octobre 2010 - 07:12 .

[Elhanan]

Maybe Felon's Coat, but Battledress still has +15% Dodge, I believe which can stack with other items; saved my AW against the Harvester.

[Zy-El]

DW Warrior can wear the heavier armor with less stam penalty. DW Warrior also has greater Strength and can dish out more damage without having to flank their targets. Also has access to Champion, Templar, Spirit Warrior specs making them better able to deal with mages who often present Rogues with more challenge.

If a Rogue can Stealth, he can get to the mage and stab him to death. But, if the mage sees the rogue and puts him in a Crushing Prison = dead rogue, unless you have a Templar nearby to cancel it. Warriors also tend to have more Health than rogues and can usually survive a Crushing prison.

While it is true that a 2H Warrior is more durable, a DW Warrior hits more often and has a chance to parry melee attacks and deflect arrows - not as well as a S&S Warrior. The DW Warrior is somewhere in between being full attack (2H) and full defense (S&S).

[Commander Mad Cat]

Thanks for the info, Zy-El. I've played through the Dwarf Commoner origin as a DW Rogue and it was a bit boring, though it's hard to tell if the issue was the origin story or the class. And I'm starting to see what the differences between the DW Warrior and DW Rogue are and I'm thinking I might just try a Dalish Elf Rogue Archer / Scout instead of a Dual-Wielder.

Modifié par Commander Mad Cat, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:20 .

[Jon Jern_]

Might want to point out that, although it's probably my fault, most rogues start off slow and somewhat weak. No Momentum, no Coup de Grace, etc. Although build it up well and they have one of the highest DPS of most of the classes. Imagine taking Haste, taking out the group group and making it personally sustained, remove the attack penalty, you find yourself hitting every time with critical hits constantly, 90 damage normally at twice the speed. That's pretty intense yo.

[Commander Mad Cat]

Nah, I didn't notice any "slowness"; it's just that I didn't find sneaking around while stealthed to be exciting or useful. And if I DW, I'd much rather do AoE attacks, like Dual Sweeps, which I hear daggers are pretty poor for. If I understand it right, Rogues are more of a single-target class while Warriors are better at multi-target attacks.

[Elhanan]

Not really. Warriors generally use the talents more, as Rogues gain backstab dmg from auto-attacks. But you can gain the Talents, increase Willpower to 30, and spam the ones you want to use to your hearts content.

Stealth is more fun to me when it is at 3rd or 4th tier, and you sneak in behind your primary target (eg; Mage) and let loose. Then when the opposing troops attempt to surround your position, sneak away to anther location, or not. And the Denerim estates are more fun when Stealthed, IMO.

[termokanden]

Zy-El wrote...

DW Warrior can wear the heavier armor with less stam penalty. DW Warrior also has greater Strength and can dish out more damage without having to flank their targets. Also has access to Champion, Templar, Spirit Warrior specs making them better able to deal with mages who often present Rogues with more challenge.
If a Rogue can Stealth, he can get to the mage and stab him to death. But, if the mage sees the rogue and puts him in a Crushing Prison = dead rogue, unless you have a Templar nearby to cancel it. Warriors also tend to have more Health than rogues and can usually survive a Crushing prison.

I don't think this is at all a fair comparison. My rogue had no trouble with mages at all, simply because I could always just stealth. Mages would generally go for my tank as well until I actually attacked them. Once my rogue started attacking a mage, that was pretty much it for them. Dirty Fighting, Riposte, Punisher, mages seemingly have a harder time resisting them than most and so they never get to retaliate.

I think it's fairly even between DW rogues and warriors in Origins, at least in my mind there isn't a clear winner. But once you get to Awakening, Spirit Warrior is so insanely overpowered that warriors WILL be doing more damage.

While it is true that a 2H Warrior is more durable, a DW Warrior hits more often and has a chance to parry melee attacks and deflect arrows

Again I am wondering what you mean. How are 2h warriors more durable? They wear the same armor as DW warriors, but DW warriors naturally have higher dexterity and so more defense.

One last thing. If you're thinking stealth is a bit slow, one of the abilities in Warden's Keep will increase your speed while stealthed. It's a passive buff too so it's pretty great.

Modifié par termokanden, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Iz Stoik zI]

I think 2H warriors are somewhat more durable because of Indomitable. Getting knocked down is the bane of my existence when playing anything but a 2H or S&S Warrior, and it makes fights with dragons insanely annoying.

[termokanden]

That's one definition of durable.

[Iz Stoik zI]

termokanden wrote...

That's one definition of durable.

And it's the only thing I can think of that places 2H Warriors above.