53 réponses à ce sujet

[nikki191]

one advantage warriors have over rogues is the ability to pull bad guys to them, they are great at crowd control they also tend to be a bit more durable than a rogue, but trying to hit a dual wielding rogue later on can be nigh on an impossible task.



honestly i cant think of a reason to play a warrior with those skills, i prefer the more tactical play with a stealthed rogue, pick locking, backstabbing, etc but if you are going to back stab a mage at the back of an enemy group be aware while you may be good and kill them fast it can also leave you isolated and surrounded

[grillz]

I really like berserk dw, be a berserker and 2hand is to slow for me, your supposed to be going berserk. lol

[Kalcalan]

Elhanan wrote...

DW Warrior uses the activated talents more often, while the Rogue does not need to do so. While not a reason to take DW Warrior, using talents helps increase the fun factor. And as DEX is key for both DW and Archery, making a hybrid build is easier, but this is also true for Rogues.
2H is a good selection.

I agree. They are different beasts. Early on Rogues benefit more from Rogue taents than the Dual Wielding line (Stealth, Lethality for instance). A Warrior can invest in the Dual Wielding line sooner (especially if the Rogue is on trap/lock duty as well).

A Warrior will use more talents because stamina won't be a problem at all with Death Blow and it requires less micro maagement. A Rogue don't get much from most Dual Wielding talents (except Momentum) if you're using the Rogue as a backstabber (who uses Punisher with a Rogue except for the fun factor maybe).

[termokanden]

Actually, Punisher is useful against physically weak enemies such as mages. If Dirty Fighting and Riposte are on cooldown, you can use Punisher as well to keep them down.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

A warrior can hit for larger numbers with worrying where they're hitting from. In a solo and most boss fights, rogue tends to loose some survivability and DPS without backstab or being able to stun. Rogues tend for high Def/light armor, as previously mentioned, against auto-hit attacks, they take most damage, more so since most auto-hits also impart a status effect of some kind. In Origins, DW Warriors won't be too far behind the Dex of a Cunning Rogue and get heavy/massive armor and physical resistance.

[termokanden]

I'm not sure where you're going with that. A DW warrior that focuses on strength will be far behind a dex rogue. A cunning rogue will be far behind both since they don't even get to wear massive armor.



A warrior in massive armor but otherwise with max dex has insane survivability, but then rogues have stealth. It's not easy to say which is more survivable.



Oh, and by the way, dex adds physical resistance as well, it's not just strength that does that.

[Eragondragonrider]

It all depends on your play style. I personally like wading in to a large mob of enemies, going nuts with a big pile of bodies around me and laughing as my heavy armor barley takes any scratches.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

I'm not sure where you're going with that. A DW warrior that focuses on strength will be far behind a dex rogue. A cunning rogue will be far behind both since they don't even get to wear massive armor.

A warrior in massive armor but otherwise with max dex has insane survivability, but then rogues have stealth. It's not easy to say which is more survivable.

Oh, and by the way, dex adds physical resistance as well, it's not just strength that does that.

A high STR Rogue has the opp for having both heavier armor and Stealth, so survivability is well covered. Plus, they can deal out decent dmg.

[Addai]

I've played both and I see no advantage to DW warrior. Early in the game you have a more impressive attack and con bonus, but a rogue quickly catches up. The only thing I can think of is if you want to play a templar or reaver or beserker for RP reasons. Taunt is also useful for drawing off threat from an ally. Otherwise a DW warrior is just a gimped rogue.

Note, I tend to play my rogues as front-on attackers and I don't bother with the concept of a tank.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 octobre 2010 - 03:49 .

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

Not really. Warriors generally use the talents more, as Rogues gain backstab dmg from auto-attacks. But you can gain the Talents, increase Willpower to 30, and spam the ones you want to use to your hearts content.

??  I don't play my DW warriors or rogues any differently in terms of the DW talents.  For aesthetic and variety reasons, I choose to respec Alistair and load him up with Punisher and Cripple first rather than Momentum, but with a PC I use DW talents as much with a rogue as with a warrior.  Why wouldn't I?

[Addai]

miltos33 wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

The light armours are so icky :/ and it doesn't help that the custom armours found on DA Nexus are overpowered.

This is the reason why I like the Amy Outfit for female characters. It duplicates the stats of what you actually wear at the moment you put it on. So the custom armor, gloves, and boots that my current character is wearing have the exact same stats with the Battledress of the Provocateur, Red Jenny Seekers, and Bard's Dancing Shoes. To the best of my knowledge this is the only mod that allows you to look good without cheating.  

LOL  I hope you're joking.  The Bavarian porn outfit?

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...


??  I don't play my DW warriors or rogues any differently in terms of the DW talents.  For aesthetic and variety reasons, I choose to respec Alistair and load him up with Punisher and Cripple first rather than Momentum, but with a PC I use DW talents as much with a rogue as with a warrior.  Why wouldn't I?

Uncertain, but if I recall correctly that Backstab dmg is only applied from auto-attacks; not from Activated Talents. Maybe someone more experienced with DW Rogues can confirm and/or explain.

[Spartansfan8888]

Elhanan wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


??  I don't play my DW warriors or rogues any differently in terms of the DW talents.  For aesthetic and variety reasons, I choose to respec Alistair and load him up with Punisher and Cripple first rather than Momentum, but with a PC I use DW talents as much with a rogue as with a warrior.  Why wouldn't I?

Uncertain, but if I recall correctly that Backstab dmg is only applied from auto-attacks; not from Activated Talents. Maybe someone more experienced with DW Rogues can confirm and/or explain.

Correct.  If you are a DW rogue then auto attack backstabbing is the way that you do the most damage.  You get enough DEX for your DW skills and enough STR to equip the armor you want and then you load up CUN and go dual daggers.  The lethality skill will use CUN to calculate damage instead of STR, momentum will give you insane attack speed, and any gear with + X% to critical/backstab damage is your friend.  The second assassin skill also gives you extra backstab damage based on cunning.

A DW warrior on the other hand will want just enough DEX for DW skills and then STR all the way.  Dual sweep and whirlwhind can deal big damage to crowds then your other skills and/or auto attack will clean up whatever's left easily.  IMO DW warrior is the strongest origins build.

[miltos33]

Backstab damage applies only to auto-attacks so that is indeed a good reason for a dual wielding rogue not to use activated talents as often as a dual wielding warrior.



Having said that, a properly built dual wielding rogue equipped with the right gear can still score lots of criticals and do lots of damage by using activated talents so there is probably more than one way to play a character.

[Taritu]

I've done both. I prefer the warrior. All the maneuvering as a rogue takes up time that you could be doing damage with. My favorite is heavy armor - get Elon the Great's mail coat, make heavy armor out of the dragon hide, and you've got some very nice armor with decent stamina. That said, rogue is more than viable, and if you go for the right build (high evade) you can even tank pretty well as a dual wield rogue if you want to. All my dual wield warriors get one level in poison, of course, no reason not to.



Dual wield warriors in Origins put out some really really crazy damage.



I don't really worry about Awakenings. In Awakenings you're so ridiculously OP and so are your companions, that it really doesn't matter what you play or even what tactics you use for most battles.

[Addai]

Spartansfan8888 wrote...

Correct.  If you are a DW rogue then auto attack backstabbing is the way that you do the most damage.  You get enough DEX for your DW skills and enough STR to equip the armor you want and then you load up CUN and go dual daggers.  The lethality skill will use CUN to calculate damage instead of STR, momentum will give you insane attack speed, and any gear with + X% to critical/backstab damage is your friend.  The second assassin skill also gives you extra backstab damage based on cunning.

A DW warrior on the other hand will want just enough DEX for DW skills and then STR all the way.  Dual sweep and whirlwhind can deal big damage to crowds then your other skills and/or auto attack will clean up whatever's left easily.  IMO DW warrior is the strongest origins build.

That may be true for an individual strike, but in your 2nd paragraph you basically contradict yourself by pointing out that it's not necessarily the best use of your time DPS-wise.  I only backstab if it's convenient to do so.  Otherwise, as I posted upthread, I don't play a DW warrior or DW rogue any different.  Great DPS in a crowd with the option to backstab beats not having backstab option at all.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 octobre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Addai]

Taritu wrote...

I've done both. I prefer the warrior. All the maneuvering as a rogue takes up time that you could be doing damage with. 

Who says you have to maneuver if you don't want to?  I usually have Alistair in the party, so I get a backstab on my first stealth hit and then some backstabs when Ali taunts and enemies turn around to attack him, but otherwise I just don't worry about it.  Nothing says you have to backstab, but with a warrior you don't even have the option.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 octobre 2010 - 02:20 .

[mousestalker]

Riposte from stealth is a truly beautiful thing against mages. Add momentum and swift salve to the mix and the sparkle fingers drop very quickly.

[Addai]

I would also add that with Combat Movement you get a pretty wide angle of backstabs. Plus a rogue can get things like Coup de Grace which when combined with paralysis runes is great for your crit rate. Add to that Bard talents for party buff and blammo. Why would you ever play a warrior? Not for gameplay reasons.

[miltos33]

For as long as you keep Momentum on it is true that with paralysis runes and concentrated crow poison on your daggers you hit so fast as a rogue that you can keep your enemies paralyzed or stunned most of the time so you can auto backstab them with Coup de Grace.

[termokanden]

Addai67 wrote...
Why would you ever play a warrior? Not for gameplay reasons.

Well as I keep saying, Spirit Warrior is insanely overpowered. Combine with archery, DW, whatever, it's insane in any case.

For Origins, I wouldn't play a DW warrior. I just tried it in fact to remind myself how well it works. I prefer rogue DW to that for sure. Warriors aren't hopeless in Origins though, simply because 2h can be fun to play (after a while...).

For the moment, I'm having fun with 3 rogues and a mage in my party. All rogues have high cunning and run Song of Courage. The buff my main character gets from this is quite insane.

I also set tactics to use Flicker on groups of 3+. Very fun to watch 3 rogues bounce around like pinballs at the same time. Oh, did I mention it kind of destroys everything as well?

Modifié par termokanden, 10 octobre 2010 - 03:16 .

[lancelots]

Spirit Warrior, Holy Smite, Grievous insult. Keep your stinky lock picking and sneaking up I’ll take the front on battle it’s more fun, I even re-spec Oghren to duel-wield makes him much more effective.

[Jon Jern_]

Maybe I should try a DW warrior, as I've been an avid supporter of DW rogue. The problem is I'm multi tasking with a 2H Warrior, a Dexterity Rogue, An Arcane Warrior, and a S&S Warrior.

[Elhanan]

Whi;e a DW/Archer Warrior is not as dull as I first thought, Rogues still maintain my interest.

[BootOnFace]

A great part about DA:O is that all builds are effective and fun too. I prefer DW rogue over DW warrior, but that's just utility. And because I think massive armor and DW look ridiculous together.