315 réponses à ce sujet

[Riona45]

Hawke’s pre-established character brings other limitations to Dragon Age 2 as well, such as a simplified character creation system. Hawke can be a man or a woman, but his classes are limited to only the generic ‘Warrior’, ‘Wizard’ or ‘Rogue’ and there’s no option to change his race; he has to be human.

Ignoring the "wizard" bit and assuming the previewer meant "mage," this statement makes it sound as if class options have been drastically reduced from the first game when they haven't actually changed at all.

And apparently the previewer has seen enough of the story to decide that the DA2 story is "drab fiction."  Or they possess amazing future-seeing abilities (like some people on these forums, incidentally). 

[tmp7704]

Faz432 wrote...

I didn't say it doesn't make it look grimey, I said it seems like a cheap/cop out way of achieving the effect.

From wiki -

water sours, crops are spoiled, the land is poisoned and animals sicken. With each passing day, a blight grows. The earth itself withers and dies; the land is leeched of moisture, turning everything dry and brown. The sky fills with rolling, black clouds that block out the sun, making it easier for the darkspawn to surface. As this wasteland spreads, the corruption of the blight spreads with it, diseasing all in its path.

Why not get rid of the brown filter and use what is actually described as happening in a blight

How can you demand at the same time to "get rid of brown" and "make it like it's described"?

[mellifera]

I demand they retroactively edit that entry so that it reflects what I imagine things to look like better!

[Onyx Jaguar]

This article has so many twists and turns, I don't know whats gonna happen next!



*sits down, pours a cup of coffee, pours it on ground, takes out binoculars, picks up a 20 oz of Sunkist*



Can't wait for the next scene!

[Dave of Canada]

Firky wrote...

What were the factual errors? The Archdemon reference?

I read the article this morning but... he seems to make a big deal about the game having three classes (!), like suddenly that was completely different from Origins. He called the Mage class "Wizard", called Flemeth the Archdemon (if this person DID play the demo, they would know that it's Flemeth.).

This "preview" seems more like a rant from somebody who watched the gametrailers video of the exaggerated gameplay.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 octobre 2010 - 02:24 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

I got a heavy "disappointed fan" vibe from the article.

So Hawke is human and we don't have six origins to pick from. Would they rather BioWare put all their effort into creating six different origins and casting voice actors for four more gender/race combinations, thereby leaving the other aspects of the game underdeveloped? People should stop evaluating video game sequels the way they do musical covers. For their own sanity.

[Emperor Mars]

yeah got to the spoiler on the second page and stopped reading....well atleast it was a spoiler to me.

[Firky]

Dave of Canada wrote...
This "preview" seems more like a rant from somebody who watched the gametrailers video of the exaggerated gameplay.

Now, if that were true, then I'd agree it were unprofessional. But they clearly talk about the "presentation", the room, what was said etc. Suggesting they are outright and deliberately lying might be a bit of a stretch. Also, a quick look through the writer's blog posts suggests he went to GamesCon 2010.

One way or another, I haven't seen a single DA2 preview that has been recieved positively by this particular forum. It's not critical enough of stuff people don't like. Or it's too critical. Or the writer isn't an incredibly hardcore DA fan and doesn't know his Archdemon from his regular dragon.

So, is this a case of everyone's porridge being the wrong temperature, or perhaps colour. Brown, say? Or is there some perfect preview that full-on DA fans might actually like to read?

[Morroian]

Firky wrote...

One way or another, I haven't seen a single DA2 preview that has been recieved positively by this particular forum. It's not critical enough of stuff people don't like. Or it's too critical. Or the writer isn't an incredibly hardcore DA fan and doesn't know his Archdemon from his regular dragon.

So, is this a case of everyone's porridge being the wrong temperature, or perhaps colour. Brown, say? Or is there some perfect preview that full-on DA fans might actually like to read?

Its mainly the factual errors, plus it verged on being an opinion piece rather than an informative preview. It came across as lazy. Some people may find it hard to believe but I wouldn't mind a reasoned objective review that was critical.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Reasoned Objective Review that was Critical is my middle name



(Brown variance looked comparatively better in Morrowind compared to its competition than DA 2's shown variance so far)

[Firky]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Reasoned Objective Review that was Critical is my middle name

(Brown variance looked comparatively better in Morrowind compared to its competition than DA 2's shown variance so far)

And with an example. :happy:

But isn't that sort of subjective? You might think it looks better than in Morrowind but you're still judging it? 

And what if I hadn't played Morrowind? Or if I did play it and didn't even notice it was brown? I can't be bothered searching out screenshots.

(PS. I appreciate what you are getting at, but "objective" is more of an aspirational goal? Reasoned and critical may be somewhat easier?)

Edit: Also, I did find this preview a mix of opinion, description and (lite) analysis.

Modifié par Firky, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:02 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

No you misread me.



I am saying for its time Morrowind looked better. Even given the screenshots I would say that Morrowind's groundscape pulled off the muddy brownish look better



Its the amount of polygons in the landscape. Of course seeing it in motion would help as extra effects would clear up the muddy look.



I mean if you can't use that as a benchmark then it would be hard to say that a flamethrower in say Marathon looking worse than the flamethrower in Return to Castle Wolfenstein would be subjective. When the stress test would show objective in saying that the RTW fire is better, but you may like the Marathon more because you think 2D is better or something like that.

[Firky]

OK, I did misread it. I read "looked comparatively better THAN Morrowind". That sentence was very concise and I totally see what you mean about benchmarks and stuff, but I'd just find that kind of objectivity too difficult to read. (But, personal preference in previews, probably. That was a lot of Ps. See, short attention span.)

Modifié par Firky, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:05 .

[Morroian]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

No you misread me.

I am saying for its time Morrowind looked better. Even given the screenshots I would say that Morrowind's groundscape pulled off the muddy brownish look better

Its the amount of polygons in the landscape. Of course seeing it in motion would help as extra effects would clear up the muddy look.

I actually agree with the criticisms about brown filter on this scene, it does look like a short cut by Bioware when they could do the scene in more detail. It might cost too much to do that though I guess. 

[J-Reyno]

 It seems like the reviewer is trying to come off as a big DAO fan that was disappointed in the changes, but I can't take that angle seriously when you call the Mage a Wizard.



Trust me I'm all for skepticism and pointing out flaws when necessary but this review couldn't even sell me on the position it was supposedly speaking from.  I'm also curious as to what the hell they were expecting from the combat.  Just looking at it I can tell that it's different, and many people have said the same.  Sure as hell my warrior didn't swing his 2hander like that in Origins.

And even though I was tempted to stop reading after the Wizard comment, I read to the end and stalefaced at the mention of disappointment that the Warden wouldn't carry over.

Er, knock knock, anyone there?  We've known this for a LONG TIME.  

And last but not least... drab fiction?  In my DAO?

Move along folks, nothing to see here.

[Firky]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I mean if you can't use that as a benchmark then it would be hard to say that a flamethrower in say Marathon looking worse than the flamethrower in Return to Castle Wolfenstein would be subjective. When the stress test would show objective in saying that the RTW fire is better, but you may like the Marathon more because you think 2D is better or something like that.

OK, short attention span or not, I am actually trying really hard to understand what you mean about objectivity in previews. Can you reword this paragraph? I don't understand it.

[Firky]

double post?

Modifié par Firky, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

For instance the graphics of Oblivion are more detailed and look more up to date than Morrowind, but I like the look of Morrowind more.



Or lets see in this case I would say that compared to its competition Dragon Age 2's environments are lacking in detail and effects.



Or to go on with the Return to Castle Wolfenstein (this is gonna get confusing). The fire effects are a technological achievement, yet I've heard people finding this a gimmick and were fine with the old 2D fire effects.



Or for something I actually believe (I mean come on the fire in RTW looked way better than Marathon). The Special Edition of Monkey Island has a more detailed and pleasing graphical look though personally I think it looked better in the original version/mode.



Comparitively Special Edition has very nice HD 2D graphics that can compare with its competitors. Although personally speaking I prefer the ancient 2D graphics more because of the style.



I think I answered the question somewhere in there

[SirOccam]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...

Reviews like this are rare and have a nice aftereffect, they make the fanboys blue, which I find very amusing. Let's summarize his cons conclusions:

- Brownish landscape: Hell ye, DAO was full of it, and it seems DA2 will be also, blightland or not. Not natural, not pretty, bad choice to support the dark fantasy etiquette.

This is based on what? A couple of screenshots from Kirkwall which, I might add, were not brown? Everything else is from the Blightlands. Places called "Blightlands" tend not to be overly colorful.

- Blood: A lot of people find it nice to see blood flowing everywhere, sane people doesn't find anything cool about it. And DA2 seems to be proud of the amount of blood it offers, it's one of the things that define it as a game, I bet that's written in the design documents of the game as such.

I'm indifferent to it; does that make me insane? Maybe just "eccentric?"

Chopping people with swords is bound to produce some blood, and it pumps through the arteries pretty quickly, meaning of course there'll be a bit of spray. If they exaggerate it a bit, so what?

- Established identity: Lets see, you play a human that can talk for himself with his own voice. In role-playing terms, that's as established as it can get.

Nonsense. He has a voice, but he does NOT "talk for himself." You are still in charge of choosing what lines he will say. You can still roleplay to your heart's content...the fact that the line will be said out loud instead of just displayed doesn't change that.

The above posters all refer to the PC (player character) as Hawke, not as "myself" or "I". Hawke will become the legend, Hawke will get all the ladies, Hawke this, Hawke that. Not you though. But hey, you can always decide what hair this dude will have.

Okay...several problems with this:
1. I call my Warden "the Warden" all the time.
2. Who the hell decreed that roleplayers have to refer to their characters in the first person? Especially in a forum. This is just asininity.

- Drab fiction: Well, it's too early to say anything about that, but most of the screenshots I have seen have darkspawn in them, and I am tired of these guys, old or new look aside. Couldn't take them seriously in DAO, and I doubt I'll do so in DA2. But there are other forces involved, so lets wait and see.

Most of the screenshots you've seen have been from the demo, which is the only major area with Darkspawn. Wait and see indeed. And regardless, what about the Darkspawn is drab? And he complained about it being drab in Origins as well, so it's not just about them returning.

The good news is that he seems to confirm that there will be a free-to-move camera, it seems only during pause.

That is an incorrect assumption, and it's not new in any case. You could move the camera freely both during play and while paused in Origins, and you still can in DA2. I've done it.

This is what annoys me about "critiques" like this. They are usually based on so much BS. If they had ACTUAL gripes I'd have no problem with it. I'd probably disagree, but this guy was just WRONG on almost everything. Being a fanboy has nothing to do with it.

[Dave of Canada]

SirOccam wrote...

Places called "Blightlands" tend not to be overly colorful.

I don't know, I heard it's quite nice this time of year.

[AtreiyaN7]

Anarya wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Even if the Blightlands is supposed to be all grim and gritty thats fine and makes sense. What irks me are the seemingly still bland backdrops that makes it seem as if everything is covered in a thick layer of smog, fog and haze.

For example:
[snip]

Well it seems you don't like the lighting and atmospheric effects. Personally I like that effect, because it reminds me of Chinese landscape painting, like Hawke and co. are moving through a scroll.

[snip]

Although I will point out that Chinese landscape painting is more realistic than you might think. Here's a photo of Guilin, China:

[snip]

Anyway the approach to landscape in this game is supposedly more minimalistic and meant to serve as negative space. I think the Eastern tradition of painting is very thoughtful of negative space so hey, if they're taking cues from that I heartily approve.

Exactly! I mentioned Chinese and Japanese ink paintings in another thread about graphics. I think the use of space and composition is highly  important. You can take a minimalist approach and still create something beautiful.

[AlanC9]

SirOccam wrote...

Okay...several problems with this:
1. I call my Warden "the Warden" all the time.
2. Who the hell decreed that roleplayers have to refer to their characters in the first person? Especially in a forum. This is just asininity.

And 3.: Since none of us have actually played the game on our own systems yet, none of us have our own DA2 PCs yet. Even if I was going to say "I," I'm not going to do that until "I" actually exist.

[Firky]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I think I answered the question somewhere in there

That's funny. (And thanks for trying.)

I think I'm just struggling with the benchmark concept. How can you find an objective measure that all gamers would agree on?