315 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

There really isn't one because in the end you can just go "objectively this art style sucks" and then it pretty much resets everything. Because that is a major component and one that no one can agree on.



I mean let me use an example. I can't really say that Baldur's Gate looks a whole lot better than Septerra Core from a technical standpoint, but I can say I think that the art style sucks and it would be a near impossible thing to argue.



But if you have two things that look almost identical in design, the benchmark then is on the tech side, polygon count, shading, shadows, color, reflection. Or in this case ground texture.

[Firky]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

But if you have two things that look almost identical in design, the benchmark then is on the tech side, polygon count, shading, shadows, color, reflection. Or in this case ground texture.

OK, that sunk in.

So, to rephrase your original point (to see if I've got it) ... You'd like to see a preview which critically compared DA2 to relatable examples, so you could get an overall impression of where it's features might fit in the grand scheme of things, in the RPG genre? 

That sounds like something a good preview might do, I guess.

Modifié par Firky, 06 octobre 2010 - 05:44 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yes, that is what I like to see

[Firky]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Yes, that is what I like to see

That's why I like this forum. It always makes me think.

[MerinTB]

Reyno411 wrote...

It seems like the reviewer is trying to come off as a big DAO fan that was disappointed in the changes, but I can't take that angle seriously when you call the Mage a Wizard.

Wow, ok, seriously - Mage, Wizard, Magic-User, Sorcerer, Warlock, Illusionist, Sage, Purveyor-of-card-tricks...
WTF does that matter?  Honestly?  Until people made this stink in this thread, I was probably using the terms interchangeably in reference to DA:O (Mage and Wizard - in fact, I probably used Wizard more often - as far as this game is concerned they are synonymous, no? Is Wizard defined as something else somewhere in DA:O that I missed?)

---

As to the "big DAO fan that was disappointed with changes", follow these quotes -

• One of Bioware’s aims with the sequel was to create more of a visual identity, though it’s not something we could see any evidence of. All we saw was lots of brown and an excessive amount of blood, just like in Dragon Age: Origins.
• we have to admit that we admire Bioware for trying something different
  than the standard Fight + Cutscene formula, even if it remains to be
  seen how effective it will be.
• The combat in particular didn’t seem to have taken massive steps forward, despite Bioware’s insistence otherwise. ‘Think like a general and fight like a Spartan,’ was Silverman’s catchphrase of the day, but it all looked pretty old-hat to us.
• It’s exciting because it does some new things, such as having a new
  storytelling style that can potentially weave a touch of anarchy into
  things
• At the same time though, it’s marred by many of the same flaws that
  plagued the first game; the excessive bloodiness, drab fiction and
  endless expanses of brown textures.

That doesn't read like a huge fan of DA:O hating the changes.  It reads like someone who enjoyed DA:O but had problems with the game, and is disappointed that DA2 isn't apparently fixing those problems.  It also reads like someone who is happy BioWare is changing stuff up - and is only really disappointed that he can't transfer his character (which isn't a change - you couldn't transfer a character into DA:O, after all.)

I think fans of DA:O who are unhappy with the "changes" to DA2 are reading this review as a "DA2 sucks, why can't it be more like DA:O"  piece, and fans of the DA2 "changes" are reading this as "another fanatic DA:O player who can't stand anything changing at all" -

and both are wrong.

The only real fault I give the review (and I don't agree with half of what the reviewer seems to like or believe), and I said it before, was that they seem overly fixated on the tone and shading of the graphics.

[Merced256]

Your warden can also refer to morrigan as a sorceress, s o r c e r e s s doesn't spell mage; OUTRAGE.

Modifié par Merced256, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:20 .

[Dave of Canada]

Merced256 wrote...

Your warden can also refer to morrigan as a sorceress, s o r c e r e s s doesn't spell mage; OUTRAGE.

There's a difference between both and you know it.

[Riona45]

SirOccam wrote...


This is based on what? A couple of screenshots from Kirkwall which, I might add, were not brown? Everything else is from the Blightlands. Places called "Blightlands" tend not to be overly colorful.

Indeed.  I will say though (and this is not aimed at you or any specific person) that the idea that "everything" in DA:O was "brown" is a massive overstatement as well.

Okay...several problems with this:
1. I call my Warden "the Warden" all the time.
2. Who the hell decreed that roleplayers have to refer to their characters in the first person? Especially in a forum. This is just asininity.

Same here.  I consider my Warden to be a specific character, not a self-insert.

Modifié par Riona45, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:27 .

[AtreiyaN7]

The problem with the preview is that it's a small part of the game, and we don't have a clue how the rest of the world appears. It's a blighted and/or war-torn area in the demo; I don't think one would expect to see anything other than muted colors in a place like that, as has been pointed out in here a few times. Otherwise, I don't have issues with the writer (err, except for the character importation comment that is). Everyone gets to have their own opinion. I just don't share his view on things (it doesn't bother me either - some people seem to hope the article will make anyone who look at DA2 favorably will rage over it *snort* ).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:30 .

[Merced256]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Your warden can also refer to morrigan as a sorceress, s o r c e r e s s doesn't spell mage; OUTRAGE.

There's a difference between both and you know it.

True, but i would contend that it relies entirely on the setting. A sorcerer is, as defined by D&D, a natural spell caster that doesn't have to study and prepare spells in order to cast them. A Wizard must study and ready their spells before use and are looked at as more scholarly while sorcerers more reckless.

I've always considered mage to be an interchangable term for both of those, as in more generalized. Though i'm sure some truly hardcore fantasy nut would say mages specifically deal with elemental magic.

Modifié par Merced256, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:30 .

[LPPrince]

Everything was brown in Assassin's Creed. Not DAO. DEFINITELY not DAO.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Your warden can also refer to morrigan as a sorceress, s o r c e r e s s doesn't spell mage; OUTRAGE.

There's a difference between both and you know it.

Not really, wizard is another name for mage, though it was cute of the BDF to try and use that as a reason to disqualify a preview that wasn't totally gushing and glowing over what they saw of the game. 

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

BDF 

Oh, how adorable. You found us a nickname. What next? Will you make us a logo? 

[Onyx Jaguar]

I like being apart of the Nintendo Defense Force myself. Use to be apart of Valve Defense Force until the rampant (bs) BS of their mandatory Source Engine update.

[Dave of Canada]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I like being apart of the Nintendo Defense Force myself.

I'm not a fan of Nintendo anymore. I used to be this big fan when I was younger and even enjoyed the Gamecube but the Wii has no interesting games. I've had my Wii since launch but the last game I got for it was Smash Bros.

[MerinTB]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

BDF 

Oh, how adorable. You found us a nickname. What next? Will you make us a logo? 

I am not a fan of dismissive titles -

but, honestly, isn't that much better than "fanboi" or even "apologist" ?  It's sarcastic, but not really nasty.

-

Personally, I'd love to be part of the BioWare Defense Force -
I'd just need to want to be defending them first.

Modifié par MerinTB, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:49 .

[Merced256]

i wish i could make myself play through mass effect 2 a 2nd time, but.. ehhhh =[

[Dave of Canada]

MerinTB wrote...

but, honestly, isn't that much better than "fanboi" or even "apologist" ?  It's sarcastic, but not really nasty.

Not really, it's just funny that we've gotten a title. I'm not really even a "Bioware Defense Force" guy. I'll yield to complaints when they have merit (For example, I have supported a few of Sylvius' critical points because he presented them with examples and such) but as SirOccam covered earlier, most of this "preview" is... yeah.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

EDIT:  Damn combo breaker

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Merced256]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

EDIT:  Damn combo breaker

Besides, its not like those two were mutually exclusive anyway.. Well unless you were also left handed^_^

[Faz432]

Back on topic...

Are people really hung upon him using the term 'Wizard' to describe a magic user?

What about 'Witch' can we use that, or as people have already said sorcerer/sorceress?

The Dragon Bioware is using for the main title graphics is Flemeth, last time it was the Archdemon. Is it so unimaginable that he would think it another Archdemon?

Who's to say it isn't the actual Archdemon? The start of the game is during the blight so is it impossible that during the escape from lothering they run into the Archdemon!?

It's just people's lame attempts to discredit someone they don't agree with.

Looking past his words I don't see any real enthusiasm from this preview, not like in his previews for DA:O and that has to be a bit of a worry.

tmp7704 wrote...

How can you demand at the same time to "get rid of brown" and "make it like it's described"?

The difference is having things that are brown, such as the ground, and just applying a brown filter over everything.
I thought I'd explained this clearly with pictures.

Modifié par Faz432, 06 octobre 2010 - 08:07 .

[Mubar]

Imported save but no warden..........My god I was right there will be a meme for DA2

[uberdowzen]

Yeah, it's terrible how *all* of Dragon Age 2 is brown...

www.gamersplus.de/images/screenshots/screenshot_da209_35867.jpg

[Rhayth]

Personally i'm not shocked by the outrage over Wizard and Archdemon. When you go to do a review step one to being taken seriously is correct info. Its like calling Bann Teagan, Duke Teagen. Certainly we get what he is alluding to, but you are trying to give an unbiased opinion to fans and people who are unfamiliar with the game so accuracy in info is important. When I saw Wizard I as a fan of DAO lost interest in this persons review as he didn't seem to take proper attention to content info.

#2 He mentioned they went into the presentation in a less than objective mood so it seems to me they were in a bad mood, or tired and didn't really pay too much attention to the demo.

#3 Stating that DAO had a drab story tells me this person wasn't really impressed with DAO, but LOVED ME2. Ias well loved ME2, and its colors, but Iexpect a space futuristic tale to have color. Obviously in the old days dyes, and dye-ing was not as good as they are now. If DA had as bright a world i'd say that they weren't looking for realistic but pretty. Sorry, but red in 1500 wasn't as bright as red can be nowadays.

All i'm saying I feel better off reading a review from a member of this board who went to a show then this person who wants Dragon Age Warden Chronicles. I loved my human noble who became King but i'm sure the life of a Warden slows down plenty in between Blights. So i'm looking forward to a character who doesn't have a 30 year life expectancy, and is vested more in the world then just hunting darkspawn and waiting for Blights.

Besides if those are the only cons for this game then i'll gladly still preorder and sink hopefully 30 hours into. I would love to play a dwarf, elf, or Tal'Vashoth, but hopefully that ability will return in a future installment as that is the only thing that really saddens me about DA2, but i'll live somehow.