315 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMadCat]

jsachun wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

More blood & gore the better & DA:O was defintely one of the
most Astonishing Scenery wise at High Graphic Settings on PC. Perhaps
Bioware should've made the romance scenes at least R rated in DA:O.

More blood and gore? Origins was already pushing it to comical limits why in God's name do we need more blood and gore? And no, Origins did not have one of the "most astonishing scenery". It was very bland, very dull, very lifeless.

And what the hell does the sex scene have to do anything with the article?

Very Bland & Very Dull indeed.

Behind the lighting and effects it is, the color palette used is very limited (Pretty much everything being a shade of brown) in Origins and from everything seen in 2 the same mistake is going to be made. BioWare for whatever reason feels that in order for a game to be a dark fantasy the environments must look dark and grimy. Just look at some of the other screens out there, pointing out grass and ginger cats rather then actually showing plush and vibrant environments, actually proving my point that variations from that grimy feel are actually subtly few and far between.

It's not a bad thing when some of their environments take that route, it can actually be a good thing because atmosphere can easily be set initially by the environment you're walking into. The problem is all of Origins applied the same dark, brownish, grimy look and by the 10th it was just getting old. Visually Origins was bland, some of the magic effects were nice and the lighting was decent but the palette and hues were dull and lifeless everywhere you went. Plus it doesn't help the textures are a low resolution.

Here's a comparison shot...



Notice the wide ranging shades of green, notice the various colors on the ground, the style of the grass, and this is built on an independents engine. Compare that to a shot of the Bercilian Forest.





Do you see what I mean? It's like that in every location in the game.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:48 .

[AlanC9]

We can still say whether or not we like them, though. One of the few complaints I had about DAO was the color palette. Kinda washed out and pastel-ish. Come to think of it, I felt that way about NWN1 as well.



I don't have an opinion about DA2 because we haven't seen enough of the game for me to form one yet.

[John Epler]

I can tell you that, as a Cinematic Designer, the use of colour in DA2 has been very impressive. I can spend one day working in a particular area on a particular plot, and the area's palette is telling a story all by itself. Next day, I'll switch to a different plot - and that area has a rather different palette that tells its own story. There's still a consistent visual style, but our artists have certainly made my job easier - it's a lot simpler to convey a mood of paranoia and gloom when an area is not a vivid orange, and shades of blue don't really work for something that's more lighthearted.

[TheMadCat]

AlanC9 wrote...

We can still say whether or not we like them, though. One of the few complaints I had about DAO was the color palette. Kinda washed out and pastel-ish. Come to think of it, I felt that way about NWN1 as well.

I don't have an opinion about DA2 because we haven't seen enough of the game for me to form one yet.

Oh certainly, people can say they like it and that I don't mind, everyone has their own specific tastes. But when they're saying it wasn't bland and dull I feel there is a need to show them that they are slightly misguided in that view.

As for 2, everything I've seen up to this point sort of indicates it's going to fall into a similar trap, obviously we've actually seen very little up to this point so it's way to early to actually make a call. But from what I've seen, eh.

[Anarya]

Faz432 wrote...

Wow!

That Brent Knowles bit kinda just backs up people who can see the direction Bioware under EA is going, and how DA is going to be mass effected.

I agree with what you say about with the writer of the preview, he's previewed and reviewed many games is he wrong about them all or just DA2?

While it's true we can't be overly critical of a game that's still has 5 months before release but equally some people can't just blindly defend it for the same reason.

Just to quote what I said before -

Faz432 wrote...

You can make the excuses you like but at
the end of the day he went to a Bioware presentation of DA2, which
should be designed to impress game journos and yet he's come away
feeling meh.

Why hasn't he come away with the "omg this looks amazing" feeling?

like he did with this article?

 www.bit-tech.net/blog/2010/08/20/the-best-thing-at-gamescom-2010/

Same site, same writer, different opinions.

He isn't "wrong" about DA2 or any of the other games he's reviewed. That was his impression of DA2 and he's perfectly entitled to it. Everyone's looking for different things out of a particular game, but I think we're equally allowed to hold positive opinions of DA2 without "blindly defending" it.

I have not loved every single thing I've heard about DA2 but the bottom line is, nothing I've heard has been a dealbreaker or made me think I won't enjoy the finished product, and other things I'd like to wait to experience firsthand before I make a decision on whether I think it works or not (like the art style).

Obviously other people have found dealbreakers for them in the information about the game and that's fine, but just because they're dissatisfied does not mean the game is now objectively bad and anyone who likes it is clearly a delusional fanboy.

[Faz432]

When he's talking about the game being 'brown' he means the colour filter that is being applied for example

This has a Blue colour filter applied to it which makes everything have a blueish look = sad



This has a green filter applied that makes everything look greenish = futuristic



This has a brown filter applied which makes everything look brownish = dark & grimey



It's not realistic at all.

Anarya wrote...

He isn't "wrong" about DA2 or any of the
other games he's reviewed. That was his impression of DA2 and he's
perfectly entitled to it. Everyone's looking for different things out of
a particular game, but I think we're equally allowed to hold positive
opinions of DA2 without "blindly defending" it.

I have not loved
every single thing I've heard about DA2 but the bottom line is, nothing
I've heard has been a dealbreaker or made me think I won't enjoy the
finished product, and other things I'd like to wait to experience
firsthand before I make a decision on whether I think it works or not
(like the art style).

Obviously other people have found
dealbreakers for them in the information about the game and that's fine,
but just because they're dissatisfied does not mean the game is now
objectively bad and anyone who likes it is clearly a delusional fanboy.

That's the sensible attitude to have, I my self haven't wrote DA2 off but I do have a few concerns about the way I can see it going and can be objective about it, some people are not like you and me though and will be fanboyish about it.

I will wait until it's released and I've read people's reactions before I make my decision.

Modifié par Faz432, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:07 .

[the_one_54321]

Again, why do you even care?

[druplesnubb]

Is it just me or is this negative review causing more positive reactions while the positive review from pcgamer caused more negative reactions?

[Faz432]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, why do you even care?

Because it seems like a cop out, really. The answer to 'dark n grimey' is just to slap a brown filter on everything?

[Anarya]

Faz432 wrote...

That's the sensible attitude to have, I my self haven't wrote DA2 off but I do have a few concerns about the way I can see it going and can be objective about it, some people are not like you and me though and will be fanboyish about it.

I will wait until it's released and I've read people's reactions before I make my decision.

How very sensible.

[John Epler]

Faz432 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, why do you even care?

Because it seems like a cop out, really. The answer to 'dark n grimey' is just to slap a brown filter on everything?

Though I can understand why people might think 'oh hey they just went brown! WAY TO COP OUT, BIOWARE!' with the currently released screenshots, I will mention again that the game does, in fact, use all the colours of the rainbow. Well, not all of them - I don't think we have any indigo-coloured areas in our game.

But rest assured - you aren't going to be trekking through grey and brown tunnels, wearing grey and brown armour and casting grey and brown spells to kill grey and brown monsters.

[Anarya]

JohnEpler wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, why do you even care?

Because it seems like a cop out, really. The answer to 'dark n grimey' is just to slap a brown filter on everything?

Though I can understand why people might think 'oh hey they just went brown! WAY TO COP OUT, BIOWARE!' with the currently released screenshots, I will mention again that the game does, in fact, use all the colours of the rainbow. Well, not all of them - I don't think we have any indigo-coloured areas in our game.

But rest assured - you aren't going to be trekking through grey and brown tunnels, wearing grey and brown armour and casting grey and brown spells to kill grey and brown monsters.

Well why not?? >

I demand more indigo and violet in my gaming!

Edit: Actually I wasn't being serious but then I hit submit and it struck me that the Fade would look really cool in indigo/violet tones instead of the brown it was in Origins. Purples are a dreamy kinda color.

Modifié par Anarya, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:09 .

[AlexXIV]

druplesnubb wrote...

Is it just me or is this negative review causing more positive reactions while the positive review from pcgamer caused more negative reactions?

Because we are rebels. Whatever anyone says, we rebel against it.

[Wulfram]

JohnEpler wrote...

Though I can understand why people might think 'oh hey they just went brown! WAY TO COP OUT, BIOWARE!' with the currently released screenshots, I will mention again that the game does, in fact, use all the colours of the rainbow. Well, not all of them - I don't think we have any indigo-coloured areas in our game.

But rest assured - you aren't going to be trekking through grey and brown tunnels, wearing grey and brown armour and casting grey and brown spells to kill grey and brown monsters.

Will our swords look like?

[Faz432]

JohnEpler wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, why do you even care?

Because it seems like a cop out, really. The answer to 'dark n grimey' is just to slap a brown filter on everything?

Though I can understand why people might think 'oh hey they just went brown! WAY TO COP OUT, BIOWARE!' with the currently released screenshots, I will mention again that the game does, in fact, use all the colours of the rainbow. Well, not all of them - I don't think we have any indigo-coloured areas in our game.

But rest assured - you aren't going to be trekking through grey and brown tunnels, wearing grey and brown armour and casting grey and brown spells to kill grey and brown monsters.

I wouldn't be that bothered going down a grey rock and brown wood tunnel, wearing grey metal armor and brown leather as long as there isn't a excessive colour filter slapped over the top of it.

You know what I'm saying?

[The Masked Rog]

AlexXIV wrote...

druplesnubb wrote...

Is it just me or is this negative review causing more positive reactions while the positive review from pcgamer caused more negative reactions?

Because we are rebels. Whatever anyone says, we rebel against it.

Hay gobierno? Soy contra!

[IrishSpectre257]

You can't really deny that the location in the demo was brown. I certainly hope the rest of the game doesn't look as dreary.



My only problem with the preview is that the writer says there if there is a huge limitation on character customization, acting as if there were more classes to choose from in Origins, even though from what I've read, there is more variety leveling up this time.

[the_one_54321]

Anarya wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Again, why do you even care?

Because it seems like a cop out, really. The answer to 'dark n grimey' is just to slap a brown filter on everything?

Though I can understand why people might think 'oh hey they just went brown! WAY TO COP OUT, BIOWARE!' with the currently released screenshots, I will mention again that the game does, in fact, use all the colours of the rainbow. Well, not all of them - I don't think we have any indigo-coloured areas in our game.

But rest assured - you aren't going to be trekking through grey and brown tunnels, wearing grey and brown armour and casting grey and brown spells to kill grey and brown monsters.

Well why not?? >

I demand more indigo and violet in my gaming!

Edit: Actually I wasn't being serious but then I hit submit and it struck me that the Fade would look really cool in indigo/violet tones instead of the brown it was in Origins. Purples are a dreamy kinda color.

Purple mountains majesty? 
But seriously, the range of the color pallette doesn't add or take away anything from the way the game is played. And I have to say that I almost have to lol when I read comments like "the gray and brown make everything so bleak and drab" and "to make it gritty and grimy all you can do is make everything gray and brown" right next to each other.
Conflicting subjectivity FTW. Again, arguing about art and style is completely pointless.

[pizoxuat]

I have to say that I really don't understand what Bioware's marketing people are thinking. The demo they are using to demonstrate the framed narrative is confusing people, and showing nothing but Blightlands to start with feeds into the whole brown backlash.

[Sidney]

Less than reality the fact that what they are showing is brown is creating a "it is brown" reaction. It seems like the choice of screens and demo areas is causing a lot of this fear and if they have any choice in it they might want to pick a more colorful area for their next round of visuals.

[John Epler]

Faz432 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, why do you even care?

Because it seems like a cop out, really. The answer to 'dark n grimey' is just to slap a brown filter on everything?

Though I can understand why people might think 'oh hey they just went brown! WAY TO COP OUT, BIOWARE!' with the currently released screenshots, I will mention again that the game does, in fact, use all the colours of the rainbow. Well, not all of them - I don't think we have any indigo-coloured areas in our game.

But rest assured - you aren't going to be trekking through grey and brown tunnels, wearing grey and brown armour and casting grey and brown spells to kill grey and brown monsters.

I wouldn't be that bothered going down a grey rock and brown wood tunnel, wearing grey metal armor and brown leather as long as there isn't a excessive colour filter slapped over the top of it.

You know what I'm saying?

Oh, we're not going to arbitrarily make tunnels out of pink granite and dye every piece of armour a rich scarlet hue just to inject colour into things.

But we do try to colour things appropriately, and sometimes, that involves other colours besides brown and grey! It's a nice day-to-day variety, especially when you're staring at the same room for 8 hours in a single day.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:16 .

[Brockololly]

Even if the Blightlands is supposed to be all grim and gritty thats fine and makes sense. What irks me are the seemingly still bland backdrops that makes it seem as if everything is covered in a thick layer of smog, fog and haze.

For example:




Compared to the more generous and realistic atmospheric perspective in Rage- you still lose detail on objects the farther away they are, yet in DA2 it seems you lose detail on things 10 feet away. I mean, even in just the backdrops, make some nicer sky boxes or some nicely drawn in backgrounds- its not like its a sandbox game where we'll necessarily be travelling to every area we see on screen.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:20 .

[Anarya]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Purple mountains majesty? 
But seriously, the range of the color pallette doesn't add or take away anything from the way the game is played. And I have to say that I almost have to lol when I read comments like "the gray and brown make everything so bleak and drab" and "to make it gritty and grimy all you can do is make everything gray and brown" right next to each other.
Conflicting subjectivity FTW. Again, arguing about art and style is completely pointless.

Well I kind of have to disagree with you. I mean no, the color palette does not affect gameplay in a technical sense, but color does a lot for conveying mood in an area. I would not say it's meaningless but I also don't think it has anything to do with the range of the palette so much as how the colors are being used. But lighting is also just as important for mood and tone as the palette, and from what I understand, lighting is being adjusted all the time. So that same color palette could look much different when lighting is finalized. Or it could look the same, I dunno. I'm going to trust John on this one because he does an inordinate amount of staring at the game's colors. *passes John some Visine*

[TheMadCat]

Sidney wrote...

Less than reality the fact that what they are showing is brown is creating a "it is brown" reaction. It seems like the choice of screens and demo areas is causing a lot of this fear and if they have any choice in it they might want to pick a more colorful area for their next round of visuals.

It's not just from the demo they're showing though that's raising eyebrows, it's also from the fact that it's the style used throughout Origins and Awakening as the review noted. It seems to be the overall feel BioWare's going for witht he series. 

[the_one_54321]

Still, you can't deny that people are complaining about the "gray and brown" in directly contradictory ways.