It's vague. Shepard sometimes says that he/she died, as in actual death, or that he/she was comatose. Sheprd also says he/she was "nearly dead." Other characters say Shepard survived and Cerberus simply rebuilt him/her or that he/she was a corpse, which implies death.Flamesz wrote...
Is it ever actually said whether he died or was just comatose and extremely damaged? It gets confusing, especially when Shepard says that stupid line "I Got Better."
Is it ever said?
Débuté par
Flamesz
, oct. 05 2010 05:01
#26
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 01:02
Spectre_907
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Retour en haut
#27
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 05:53
Thompson family
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When squadmates get killed in combat, they can be revived with medigel. Therefore, I've always assumed that enviro suits have on-board life preservation gear that sustains at least minimal processes for at least a limited time, if the damage is not massive.
Shepard was too far gone to be revived by any amount of medigel, or even regular surgery. However, it seems pretty simple to assume that his suit kept his brain alive, if nothing else.
As long as the brain lives -- and keeps having some neurons firing -- everything else can be regrown.
This is a space opera. In theory, at least, Shepard could have been rebuilt even if all they'd found was a severed head inside a helmet that supplied minimal oxygen and kept a few neurons firing.
I'd have to look carefully at the opening sequence again. If memory serves, the skeleton was badly shattered but the skull was intact. I don't think Shepard suffered even damage to thejaw.
Somebody got to him pretty quick. I found it odd that Shepard's helmet is on the planet, severely damaged, when he returns to inspect the Normandy one wreckage. My conjecture is that whoever found his body took off the helmet. stuffed what was left of him into a stasis pod and carried the "meat" off.
Miranda clearly says in one of the laptop records on Project Lazarus station that some artificial parts had to be used. Again, however, Sheperd's alive as long as the brain still lives.
Besides, this is science fiction/fantasy -- and Shepard is a Christ figure -- life, death, resurrection and then -- in ME3 -- Armageddon.
Shepard was too far gone to be revived by any amount of medigel, or even regular surgery. However, it seems pretty simple to assume that his suit kept his brain alive, if nothing else.
As long as the brain lives -- and keeps having some neurons firing -- everything else can be regrown.
This is a space opera. In theory, at least, Shepard could have been rebuilt even if all they'd found was a severed head inside a helmet that supplied minimal oxygen and kept a few neurons firing.
I'd have to look carefully at the opening sequence again. If memory serves, the skeleton was badly shattered but the skull was intact. I don't think Shepard suffered even damage to thejaw.
Somebody got to him pretty quick. I found it odd that Shepard's helmet is on the planet, severely damaged, when he returns to inspect the Normandy one wreckage. My conjecture is that whoever found his body took off the helmet. stuffed what was left of him into a stasis pod and carried the "meat" off.
Miranda clearly says in one of the laptop records on Project Lazarus station that some artificial parts had to be used. Again, however, Sheperd's alive as long as the brain still lives.
Besides, this is science fiction/fantasy -- and Shepard is a Christ figure -- life, death, resurrection and then -- in ME3 -- Armageddon.
#28
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 06:13
Weiser_Cain
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You're dead, completely dead. Look at the intro again, they even have to rehydrate you.
#29
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 07:26
Zan51
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Actually I believe some of the lines, like being told by whoever they thought she/he was dead and Shepard saying "I get that a lot.." and the "I got better.." are, I believe, lines from Ripley in Alien 4, so a homage to that movie.
#30
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 08:45
Mox Ruuga
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It's best not to think about this too deeply, you'll be happier that way...
I wonder who made the asinine decision to kill Shepard for the sake of a tutorial sequence and skill reset? I sometimes wonder how much (or how little, as the case may be) Bioware respects the integrity of their own fictional universe? Didn't anyone have the guts or the wits to explain to the others, what a stupid idea this was?
The whole thing was a dumb stunt played for a few seconds worth of shock value, and then had little to no significance to either the story or Shepard's characterization. Or to the characterization of anyone else, Liara being the possible exception.
I wonder who made the asinine decision to kill Shepard for the sake of a tutorial sequence and skill reset? I sometimes wonder how much (or how little, as the case may be) Bioware respects the integrity of their own fictional universe? Didn't anyone have the guts or the wits to explain to the others, what a stupid idea this was?
The whole thing was a dumb stunt played for a few seconds worth of shock value, and then had little to no significance to either the story or Shepard's characterization. Or to the characterization of anyone else, Liara being the possible exception.
#31
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 09:04
uzivatel
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Spartans do it all the time, they dont even need two year recovery.ashwind wrote...
If Shepard can survive (however barely) that - you know, falling into the planet's through the atmosphere and all - I think he would be more powerful than a Reaper
#32
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 09:25
AresXX7
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Flamesz wrote...
Is it ever actually said whether he died or was just comatose and extremely damaged? It gets confusing, especially when Shepard says that stupid line "I Got Better."
FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
You have people who claim Shepard was completely dead (e.g. Jacob) and others who claim she was only "mostly" dead (e.g. Feron from Redemption; Shepard herself at some point in ME2).
In the end, we know not!
On a side-note:
IIRC these lines may have been used as joke references from The Princess Bride ("only mostly dead" - Wesley being about 90% totured to death)
and Babylon 5's Captain John Sheridan ("I got better" - season 4 he was trapped between life & death) or Monty Python & the Holy Grail (a peasant says this after being turned into a newt by a witch) that Bioware threw in to amuse us.
Zan51 wrote...
Actually I believe some of the lines, like being told by whoever they thought she/he was dead and Shepard saying "I get that a lot.." and the "I got better.." are, I believe, lines from Ripley in Alien 4, so a homage to that movie.
This^ is another possible reference as well.
Either way, I wouldn't take them at face value.
Modifié par AriesXX7, 06 octobre 2010 - 09:27 .
#33
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 09:27
Whereto
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What happens if we can actually do this in the future? i would most likely be dead but i would still laugh that all of us said it couldnt happen
#34
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 12:41
Sundance31us
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AriesXX7 wrote...
Either way, I wouldn't take them at face value.
Particularly since Shepard says these lines and usually seems to be in some discomfort when discussing the subject. I figured it was a bit of survivors guild and Shepard not wanting to discuss the topic.
#35
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 03:09
Jonesey2k
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I reckon a body wouldn't burn up in the atmosphere. A body is so light that it would decelerate in the upper, very thin atmosphere where friction wouldn't be a problem.
Modifié par Jonesey2k, 06 octobre 2010 - 03:10 .
#36
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 03:43
Fiery Phoenix
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Yeah, to be honest, that's how I thought of it as well.Sundance31us wrote...
AriesXX7 wrote...
Either way, I wouldn't take them at face value.
Particularly since Shepard says these lines and usually seems to be in some discomfort when discussing the subject. I figured it was a bit of survivors guild and Shepard not wanting to discuss the topic.
#37
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 03:49
Nozybidaj
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Mox Ruuga wrote...
It's best not to think about this too deeply, you'll be happier that way...
I wonder who made the asinine decision to kill Shepard for the sake of a tutorial sequence and skill reset? I sometimes wonder how much (or how little, as the case may be) Bioware respects the integrity of their own fictional universe? Didn't anyone have the guts or the wits to explain to the others, what a stupid idea this was?
The whole thing was a dumb stunt played for a few seconds worth of shock value, and then had little to no significance to either the story or Shepard's characterization. Or to the characterization of anyone else, Liara being the possible exception.
With the ways things turned out, I agree. A death and resurrection "could" have been a very powerful plot device, but as it is, they simply used it as a running joke. The only question I would have is, are they making a joke of the characters or of the fans?
#38
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 03:52
Sundance31us
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http://www.aero.org/...cords/faq9.html
"...a light piece of debris (such as a bit of insulation) will slow rapidly and hit the ground at a slower speed than a heavier piece of debris. In general, impact velocities will range from about 30 km/hr for lightweight debris to 300 km/hr or more for heavier objects."
http://beyondapollo....tests-1966.html
"...the capsule, which weighed between 100 and 200 pounds, fell past 400,000 feet, where the first aerodynamic effects of reentry begin to occur. The RP's heat shield began to heat rapidly as it compressed the atmosphere in its path, soon reaching a temperature of about 20,000° Fahrenheit."
http://imagine.gsfc....ers/970603.html
I'm not going to quote the last one as it's all very interesting and disturbing.
"...a light piece of debris (such as a bit of insulation) will slow rapidly and hit the ground at a slower speed than a heavier piece of debris. In general, impact velocities will range from about 30 km/hr for lightweight debris to 300 km/hr or more for heavier objects."
http://beyondapollo....tests-1966.html
"...the capsule, which weighed between 100 and 200 pounds, fell past 400,000 feet, where the first aerodynamic effects of reentry begin to occur. The RP's heat shield began to heat rapidly as it compressed the atmosphere in its path, soon reaching a temperature of about 20,000° Fahrenheit."
http://imagine.gsfc....ers/970603.html
I'm not going to quote the last one as it's all very interesting and disturbing.
Modifié par Sundance31us, 06 octobre 2010 - 03:52 .
#39
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 04:03
IccaRa
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Thompson family wrote...
When squadmates get killed in combat, they can be revived with medigel. Therefore, I've always assumed that enviro suits have on-board life preservation gear that sustains at least minimal processes for at least a limited time, if the damage is not massive.
Your team mates aren't really killed when they fall in battle, they're just knocked out or sustain serious injury. Shep then slaps medi-gel on them (or they magically hop back up once they've recovered), enough to get them through the mission until they can get back to the Normandy to be seen about.
Them keeling over is more of a game mechanic and wouldn't happen 'in the real world,' but yeah, most armors (and some dermal materials) would have gel-dispensing weaves or something like that, I'd think. Many of Shep's armors include such conduits.
Either way there'd be enough present tech to keep someone up and running despite injury/shock.
As far as Shep's death... I try not to think about it too deeply on a technical level, because that's just asking for a headache.
#40
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 04:08
Zulu_DFA
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FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
Yeah, to be honest, that's how I thought of it as well.Sundance31us wrote...
AriesXX7 wrote...
Either way, I wouldn't take them at face value.
Particularly since Shepard says these lines and usually seems to be in some discomfort when discussing the subject. I figured it was a bit of survivors guild and Shepard not wanting to discuss the topic.
I guess, it's kinda awkward to wake up from a bad bad nightmare dream and find out that the world moved a couple of years on.
#42
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 04:44
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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The game should still have a moment where Shepard reflects over his death.
#43
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 04:45
Sundance31us
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It's the soul/essence thing I have trouble swallowing, but between alien technology and Shepard's stubbornness I let it slide.IccaRa wrote...
As far as Shep's death... I try not to think about it too deeply on a technical level, because that's just asking for a headache.
Indeed. You're in the hands of Cerberus, the Council has dismissed your claims, things are going to hell...Zulu_DFA wrote...
I guess, it's kinda awkward to wake up from a bad bad nightmare dream and find out that the world moved a couple of years on.
Han: How we doing?
Luke: Same as always
Han: That bad huh?"
---Return of the Jedi
Modifié par Sundance31us, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:46 .
#44
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 04:48
Schneidend
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Therion942 wrote...
Yes you died. Dead as dead can be, now I can live with that, what should have been told to us is how your brain and/or consciousness survived. But that's okay there's a hallway full o' robots for you to shoot at.
Shepard's consciousness was likely digitally reconstructed the same way as President Huerta's, just with even more sophisticated instruments.
This is why Miranda insisted on testing Shepard's mental state and memory. The project would have been a failure if Shepard were somehow inherently altered by the revival process.
As for the re-entry issue others have brought up, Shepard's N7 armor is heavily plated in incredibly durable ceramics. The world the Commander fell to has significantly lower gravity than that of Earth. These factors working in concert would have allowed Shepard's body to hit the surface largely intact. Skydivers have plummetted tens of thousands of feet and struck the ground protected by nothing but a jumpsuit and helmet and walked away with no serious injuries whatsoever. Shepard's body, on the other hand, was encased in the equivalent of a car's crumple zone.
#45
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 05:30
krimesh
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I don't know. I LOVED the death and resurrection thing. Maybe that is because I played ME after ME2. On the other hand, if that is indeed the case, then it worked because I liked ME2 so much that I bought ME too.Nozybidaj wrote...
Mox Ruuga wrote...
It's best not to think about this too deeply, you'll be happier that way...
I wonder who made the asinine decision to kill Shepard for the sake of a tutorial sequence and skill reset? I sometimes wonder how much (or how little, as the case may be) Bioware respects the integrity of their own fictional universe? Didn't anyone have the guts or the wits to explain to the others, what a stupid idea this was?
The whole thing was a dumb stunt played for a few seconds worth of shock value, and then had little to no significance to either the story or Shepard's characterization. Or to the characterization of anyone else, Liara being the possible exception.
With the ways things turned out, I agree. A death and resurrection "could" have been a very powerful plot device, but as it is, they simply used it as a running joke. The only question I would have is, are they making a joke of the characters or of the fans?
Yes, death and resurrection is a powerful plot device and it was used as such. Actually the way it was used was top of the art:
First, you got a powerful introduction into the game, even if you did not play ME. I don't know what it felt like, if you had played ME, but I don't see how it could have ruined anything.
Second, it reset the situation leaving space for something new. Everyone keeps bringing up powers. Come on, that's not important at all. It wouldn't even be a disaster if powers were reset without any kind of excuse whatsoever. New game, new gameplay system which means new powers. As a matter of fact, being an N7 Infiltrator, say, and not being any good with any weapon except pistols at the start of ME, is not exactly consistent either. Anyway, death was the only way how every single Shepard ever played, could consistently become associated with Cerberus - and working for a questionable organization makes everything a lot more interesting; just look at how many pro/anti Cerberus threads this forum has seen. While being with Cerberus was the largest change, death and resurrection was the reason for your old squad to dissolving, too. In other words death and resurrection is not just there for the sake of an introduction and a little bit of shock. Rather it is the foundation of the plot. If you didn't like the plot of ME2, well tough luck, but death and resurrection itself is there for a very good reason, and it is used well.
As far as Shepard's death is concerned, yeah, the Commander was completely dead. Some have argued that resurrection is impossible. Well, so is FTL. From the point of view of science today, anyway. But of course resurrection may seem more impossible to some, because if your neurons break apart, all your memories are gone beyond recovery. I say: slap some medi-gel on them before you die, and you'll be fine.
Modifié par krimesh, 06 octobre 2010 - 05:32 .
#46
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 05:38
Nozybidaj
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krimesh wrote...
Yes, death and resurrection is a powerful plot device and it was used as such. Actually the way it was used was top of the art:
"Technically I am undead" /cuescarySheploosmirk
Hmmm, yeah, I can see how we should all consider that the high point of literary drama. <_<
#47
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 05:47
Sundance31us
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I agree completely.krimesh wrote...
I don't know. I LOVED the death and resurrection thing. Maybe that is because I played ME after ME2. On the other hand, if that is indeed the case, then it worked because I liked ME2 so much that I bought ME too.
#48
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 06:09
Chugster
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tbh, i think they have left it ambiguous on purpose, possibly for ME3
As there is no 1 true record of what happened to Shep then all theories are valid
As there is no 1 true record of what happened to Shep then all theories are valid
#49
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 08:02
ShoepZA
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Zulu_DFA wrote...
Dusty Everman, BioWare:
http://social.biowar...69330/3#3171547
Feron, Redemption:
http://social.biowar...9330/23#4620132
Jacob, Mass Effect 2:
http://social.biowar...9330/23#4620368
Zulu_DFA, HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH:
http://social.biowar...5/index/2709565
Plus en.wikipedia.org
clinical death
legal death
brain death
information-theoretic death
hypothermia
therapeutic hypothermia
Why exactly did you list yourself as a source?
#50
Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 10:07
Inquisitor Recon
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Like the good councilor, I have dismissed all other claims and my view is that Shepard was recovered in space only 99% dead, and immediately put into a cyrofreezer or something to keep him alive long enough for Cerberus to start working on him.
If Bioware brings that whole thing up for a stupid plot twist in ME3 I am going to be pissed. Shepard is Shepard and is alive.
If Bioware brings that whole thing up for a stupid plot twist in ME3 I am going to be pissed. Shepard is Shepard and is alive.
