121 réponses à ce sujet

[Naurhir]

Orlesian chicks are where its at... down with Loghain!



(not a fan of his due to the whole Katriel thing)

[Mutant Dwarf]

Past glory has no bearing on whether or not he's a tyrant and worthy of execution.



Remember that Loghain let the Darkspawn crawl all over Fereldan. He pretty much said 'go ahead, kill all these people - you aren't Orlesians, so I don't care what you do'. It doesn't matter that he didn't believe it was a Blight. He knew that the Darkspawn had an army bigger than his own. He knew that the Darkspawn like to attack and kill anyone they see and that they would be able to swallow up most of Fereldan if he didn't oppose them.



But due to his irrational fear of Orlais, he let the Darkspawn into Fereldan in order to rape and pillage it.



Loghain doesn't give a damn about Fereldan. He just hates Orlais. He's a terrible person, a traitor who committed grand treason and regicide, and he didn't have a single rational reason for any of it. The Orlesians weren't even sending a significant army - it was only, what, two cohorts of Chevaliers and the Grey Wardens? Fereldan probably had ten times that number of soldiers before Loghain turned traitor. They weren't even a possible threat, completely unlike the army he knew outnumbered him and was coming towards him and he allowed to occupy his country without even putting up token resistance.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Curry Noodles wrote...
Loghain isn't king, doesn't want to become king, never wanted to be king, and will never be king if you save him.  He says that a number of times.

You say that as if Loghain never wanted ruling power, which wouldn't be even close to accurate. Loghain never needed to be king. He had power over the throne since the end of the Orlesian occupation. He was constantly in Denerim trying to persuade and strong-arm Maric into following his wishes, and the same is implied for Cailan.

It doesn't matter if he technically wanted to be king, since he was still trying to actively control the entire kingdom and force it to his will and his will alone.

[BlackLotus30]

I chose Alistair over Loghain any day don't get me wrong I LOVED Loghain in the book and after all that happened to him and his famillly he did his duty to his king and even let go of the one thing he loved for the sake of Felderen. But the problem is as we see in the game his persona and hatred went from bad to worse, to a point he betrayed the King wether Cailan was competant or not doesn't change the fact that he was king and that Loghain killed him and that the worse crime a man can commit during those time (by time I mean Medieval setting type). Will most people would bat an eyelash for the elves (They were second class citizen after all), Loghain tried to kill anyone else that could stood in his was, Redcliff, High Ever, the Circle. Also a lot of people died. If a hero start killing his own people over some misguided paranoia he not must of hero now is he? So for me it was OFF with his head, I even let Alistair kill him . As for Anora well Cailan was King and she was his Queen if she had stood up to her father none of this would have happened, why would she EVEN need a Regent when she had the Legal standing to rule? Some of you call Alistair a wimp but Anora is the bigger wimp. In the end Alistair did the right thing (in my version of the game) He even let Anora lives if he fall she would have been Queen, he showed mercy. No one is prepared to be King (it a job with a lot of headache and sitting on an uncomfotable chair and sycophant). So it's too early to say Alistair would make a bad King, so far he had been just, kind and mercifull and he did all that while still feeling grief for Duncan and the other grey wardens.

[Tankenminnet]

You know, this is the only choice in the game I really wasn't 100% sure about. Well actually I was, Alistair all the way, but my favorite NPCs of the game were Alistair and Loghain- I love Loghain and especially his voiceactor, he delivers lines in a very powerful manner. He's also interesting, but I went with Alistair. I reloaded a save for 2,5h trying to find a way to get both of them though, hahaha.

****, I wish Loghain had received more screentime, so to speak- same goes for his sneaky advice dude, voiced by the oh so very badass Tim Curry. 

[Ace Attorney]

Reviving this topic



I'm STILL unsure on who to pick...Loghain is a better character story-wise but Alistair is supposedly a better character in battle (as you get to chose his talent and stat growth).



Is there a way to get Loghain, get Alistair as King, AND get a happy ending?

[MFCell]

I deposed Alstair and became King myself.

However, mechanically, if you give Alistair his templar armor, the juggernaut stuff, and all cold resist rings and necklaces, he is a freaking tanking monster. He has 100% cold resist in my game with Heroic Defense, and his lowest resist is above 60%. He also has at least 50 physical and mental resist. Drop 2 points into 2h tree for Indomitable, and I promise he is better in every way than Loghain.

That being said, I easily beat the game with Loghain in my party, and he was terrible compared to Alistair the whole time. Morrigan, Wynne, and elven archers are all you need.

Oh, and to the one guy, you can marry Anora ! Requires human noble, and high persuade, however. I know for sure, 'cause I'm now Ferelden's King, as I stated in the openeing line.

Modifié par MFCell, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:38 .

[ToshiStation38]

Definitely Alistair.



I was actually considering sparing Loghain, but Alistair made me remember how many people had died at Ostagar because of the guy, including the King and Duncan. I let Alistair kill him as I saw it as sort of analogous with Maric's first execution in TST. Also, I knew Alistair would be a good king due to his similarities with Maric. They aren't necessarily strong and hard but caring, and I think that serves the people well.



Kudos to Bioware for making such difficult decisions.

[Akka le Vil]

Loghain is simply absurd to take as a character from a RP PoV, unless you play a totally corrupted and ruthless character, or perhaps consider sending him directly in the frontline against darkspawn a kind of punishment for sacrificing people to the darkspawn.



Alistair is not whiny at all, except in the bizarre world of teenagers playing video games, where anything below indestructiblesupercoolness is "lame", anyone having morals is "dumb" and anyone having humanity is "weak".

[The Dead Milkman]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Which did / will you pick?
Which do you like more (mechanical-wise & story-wise)?

I'm not sure on which to pick (but I'm 70%/30% in Loghain's favor). Story-wise, Alistair while probably the 2nd funniest character in DAO (Shale is #1), I HATE his whining and how, from what I've heard, reacts to the MC giving Loghain mercy. Loghain, on the other hand, is very interesting. A fallen war hero is cool IMO.
Mechanical-wise, I dunno since I dunno how Loghain handles.

I really liked Loghain in the first book. But in the game I thought he was a pretty crappy person. They shouldn't have even writtent hat book if they were changing the character so drastically. I prefer Alistair as it's like having a young Maric running around with you. That and I love his conversations with wynn

[Popemaster123]

I chose Alistair mostly cuz even though my character was kind and forgiving loghain who was a total d**k would be wrong and someone said if you "harden" alistair and maerry him as a woman you can keep em both....but i dont know if this is true on all 3 playthorughs ive been a guy so who knows right?

[Popemaster123]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Alistair is not whiny at all, except in the bizarre world of teenagers playing video games, where anything below indestructiblesupercoolness is "lame", anyone having morals is "dumb" and anyone having humanity is "weak".

As a "Young Adult" i find this terribly insulting and agist and i would like to ask you to refrain from implying all teens are idiots obcessed with coolness

[kraidy1117]

I perosnaly like Loghain more, because of his dual personality, and how he comes to repsect the gray wardens when he joins them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

T3hAnubis wrote...
In the battlefield, Killer > whiner

Man who has a firm stance and shows emotion = whiner. Interesting concept of manliness you have there.

Also, Allistair pwns Loghains a** in combat.

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

The very fact that it was him or Loghain (and the way he brought it) made me pick Loghain even though I had liked Alistair throughout the game. I considered a couple of things making this decision since I held no love for Loghain, but I felt that Alistair had failed Duncan by this childish refusal; especially since he probably did know (though I couldn't know th

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Alistair, without a doubt. From game mechanics, he's a killing machine.



As far as Alistair abandoning you because you let Loghain live, what else do you expect? Loghain not only killed the king, his half brother, by his betrayal, he also killed Duncan, who was like a father to Alistair, and all of Fereldan's Grey Wardens, who were like the closest thing to a family he ever had. Not to mention poisoning Arl Eamon, the other father figure in his life. Can you really expect him to simply shrug it off or suck it off for the sake of pragmatism? Alistair is not always rational, nor is he a pragmatist by any stretch of the word. He himself admits this on a number of occasions.



What he is is HUMAN. And his reaction to your choice is 100% pure unadulterated human. I would actually consider Alistair a complete waste if he accepted Loghain, because he would have given up that very part of him that made him such a quirky, flawed, yet completely human character. I honestly doubt that anyone in a similar situation would do it much differently, unless you reall have no friends or family that you love.



To take revenge on someone who was responsible for the deaths of everyone who you love, friends and family, no matter HOW useful or honorable a person he might have been, is a very human thing, whether or not it's practical or useful.



Loghain is admirable in his own right, in the past. He was a war hero, and I really hate the idea of having to throw away a dedicated war hero. But as far as I'm concerned, Loghain threw himself away the moment he sounded the retreat and left his own people and king at the mercy of the darkspawn, and then set down the road of destroying Ferelden in an attempt to ward off a boogeyman that couldn't hold a candle to the real threat.



Sorry, but the Orlesian threat is past. And frankly, better them than the darkspawn. At least you can live to fight another day under Orlais. The darkspawn will simply kill and eat everything in their path and leave nothing left to conquer.



Alistair, for many reasons, all the way.

[Ildin]

PC letting Alistair kill Loghain = Loghain in the making

atleast that's the impression i got the first time. I wonder if it was intentional also a the game seems to have a bunch of stuff with uncanny similarities with "The adventures of Loghain and Maric"



anyway on the actual subject... i personally prefer hardened king Alistair married to Anora and Loghain as a warden (alive or dead) it just feels like the right way to go besides rather Loghain finishing the Archie and getting killed than the fresh prince... no wait.. i mean king

[druidofwarp]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Alistair, without a doubt. From game mechanics, he's a killing machine.

As far as Alistair abandoning you because you let Loghain live, what else do you expect? Loghain not only killed the king, his half brother, by his betrayal, he also killed Duncan, who was like a father to Alistair, and all of Fereldan's Grey Wardens, who were like the closest thing to a family he ever had. Not to mention poisoning Arl Eamon, the other father figure in his life. Can you really expect him to simply shrug it off or suck it off for the sake of pragmatism? Alistair is not always rational, nor is he a pragmatist by any stretch of the word. He himself admits this on a number of occasions.

What he is is HUMAN. And his reaction to your choice is 100% pure unadulterated human. I would actually consider Alistair a complete waste if he accepted Loghain, because he would have given up that very part of him that made him such a quirky, flawed, yet completely human character. I honestly doubt that anyone in a similar situation would do it much differently, unless you reall have no friends or family that you love.

To take revenge on someone who was responsible for the deaths of everyone who you love, friends and family, no matter HOW useful or honorable a person he might have been, is a very human thing, whether or not it's practical or useful.

Loghain is admirable in his own right, in the past. He was a war hero, and I really hate the idea of having to throw away a dedicated war hero. But as far as I'm concerned, Loghain threw himself away the moment he sounded the retreat and left his own people and king at the mercy of the darkspawn, and then set down the road of destroying Ferelden in an attempt to ward off a boogeyman that couldn't hold a candle to the real threat.

Sorry, but the Orlesian threat is past. And frankly, better them than the darkspawn. At least you can live to fight another day under Orlais. The darkspawn will simply kill and eat everything in their path and leave nothing left to conquer.

Alistair, for many reasons, all the way.

This. /rep.

Do people still choose Loghain for reasons other than the achievements? I mean unless you RP someone Morrigan-evil. Loghain is a shell of his former self. He became so consumed with hatred for Orlais he would see the entire world be destroyed to satisfy his desires. Whos more child-like now?(Loghain)

[Herr Uhl]

druidofwarp wrote...
Do people still choose Loghain for reasons other than the achievements? I mean unless you RP someone Morrigan-evil. Loghain is a shell of his former self. He became so consumed with hatred for Orlais he would see the entire world be destroyed to satisfy his desires. Whos more child-like now?(Loghain)

WHY do you need to kill someone who can fight in the blight?
Why not let him die fighting said blight?
If you see it as that, not choosing between Alastair and Loghain. I think Loghain a a bastard for what he has done, but how would killing him make anything better? Alastair can't see my point of view and instead goes off to drink himself stupid - bad characteristic.

Its probably because I'm born and raised somewhere where the death penalty was abolished before the 2:nd WW, but I fail to see the justice in killing somebody for nothing but revenge.

And Loghain is delusional, not childish.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 18 décembre 2009 - 04:48 .

[Aracid]

I'd love to have them both killed, but then I'd have to be the sacrifice, wouldn't I? (I will not sleep with that ****... excuse my french...) So the real question is, "does it really matter?" It depends who you hate more, the over-emotional child or the corrupt tyrant... personally I don't think Alistair deserves the dignity of dying in epic battle, thus have him executed and sacrifice Loghain to the dragon?



I did think Alistair was a very amusing character in the beginning and I enjoyed his humor, but nearing the end of the game my ears were bleeding with him going on with his emotional issues...

[robertthebard]

If I could figure out a way to do it, neither one.



Loghain is a wasted man. He was something at one time, but whatever that was is long since gone. He is obsessed beyond all sanity with Orlais, and it has ruined him.



Alistair is just a waste, period. He's about 10 years old emotionally, and the Landsmeet isn't the first place you can find this out. I have gotten to the point where I may well choose Loghain simply so I can kill Alistair. How is running off in a huff better than allowing the darkspawn to kill everyone at Ostagar? He is now allowing them, in very much the same way that Loghain did, to kill everyone else in Ferelden by refusing to fight them. At least when he runs away to get drunk. The fact that he would bail on you, his "closest friend" for making a decision that may well have positive consequences for Ferelden shows his true colors.



It's all about Alistair. Despite his railing against being King, he will try to take the crown by force simply to kill Loghain. Somebody above pegged it pretty well, allowing Alistair to kill Loghain may very well equal a new Loghain. Afterall, a temper tantrum got him his way in that, and he's royalty, he can use the same methods to get everything else.

[druidofwarp]

Herr Uhl wrote...

WHY do you need to kill someone who can fight in the blight?
Why not let him die fighting said blight?
If you see it as that, not choosing between Alastair and Loghain. I think Loghain a a bastard for what he has done, but how would killing him make anything better? Alastair can't see my point of view and instead goes off to drink himself stupid - bad characteristic.

Its probably because I'm born and raised somewhere where the death penalty was abolished before the 2:nd WW, but I fail to see the justice in killing somebody for nothing but revenge.

And Loghain is delusional, not childish.

Why? Because Alistair, Duncan, Cailan, and everyone else deserves better that's why. You don't have to be the ultimate pragmatist here, you can have other thoughts than "MUST STOP TEH BLIGHT!1!!1"

Maybe because he doesn't deserve the chance to fight the darkspawn? If a soldier deserts you don't just stick him back in formation because he'll desert again. Loghain is a deserter of a much greater scale. He's also a traitor. Killing him would probably satisfy alot of people Alistair/ Bannornmen he had tortured/ Elves sold as slaves/ All the dead Fereldens because Loghain decided to abandon them.

Are you really sure this isnt also a case of you can't see Alistairs point of view because this is a video game and you dont care about the people Loghain has hurt, so that sort of cold pragmatism is easy for you?

Also he is childlike he hates Orlais and will sacrifice anything to achieve what he wants. Oh the king wants to play with Orlais well ill take my ball and leave and try to ruin the whole world because Orlais sucks. By contrast Alistair just gets drunk.

Edit: Yes because he is quite optimistic and shows a high level of morality in a dark oppressive world means he must be at least 10 on the inside

Modifié par druidofwarp, 18 décembre 2009 - 05:08 .