26 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirlasvoud]

Been thinking... (First mistake, I know)

From a story and writer's point a view, it might have been better if Shep died right in the end of ME1 by being crushed under Sovereign debris. Would have made for a better story flow between games I think if Cerberus ressurected him thereon out. Dissapointing ending without the knowledge they'd ressurect him in ME2 and therefore unfeasable, but still.

If Shepard had died right in the midst of saving the Citadel, he would have been a much bigger legend, going out in a blaze of heroism. It's at least a better death than dying in the unknown reaches of outer space in the hands of some completely unknown foe. Right now, the overlap seems kind of abrupt if you immidiatly play ME2 after finishing ME1: You escape from death, only to die some time later.

[Robbie529]

Due to Cerberus being a rouge Black Ops, and probably carrying a price on their heads from the Alliance, it was probably safer and easier for them to go through the information brokers to but Shepard's body.

[Estelindis]

It might have been better from the point of view of the whole story arc, but it would have given ME1 a massive downer ending (which wouldn't have suited the tone of the game). Considering how tough many of us who romanced Ashley or Kaidan are finding the current wait (not having any idea how things may be resolved), imagine how much worse it would be if all ME fans had no idea if their Shep was alive between ME1 and ME2.

[mcsupersport]

NO!!!!!! I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE "HERO DIES AT THE END..........OH WAIT!!!!!SEQUEL!!! HE'S BACK!!!!!!!



It was hard enough with how it was done in ME2, that if they pulled that out of the box in ME1, I don't know if the bad taste would have worn off enough for me to by the sequel, especially since they changed the play in the game.

[AntiChri5]

Yes it would have been much better.

Put that Lazarus cutscene where you wake up to see Miranda and Wilson talking and then black out after the credits.

[Merlin 47]

mcsupersport wrote...

NO!!!!!! I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE "HERO DIES AT THE END.........

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I do agree with this.  I think it would have been HORRIBLE if Shepard died at the end.

AntiChri5 wrote...

Yes it would have been much better.
Put that Lazarus cutscene where you wake up to see Miranda and Wilson talking and then black out after the credits.

Yeah....not for me it wouldn't have.  I already felt coerced into working with Cerberus by BioWare for ME 2.  I may not have enjoyed the opening scene, but at least at the end of ME 1, I was a Spectre and not working for Cerberus.

[lobi]

Bio prob didnt know for sure if ME2 was gonna happen til game already finished and peeps buy it.

[mcsupersport]

Merlin 47 wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...

NO!!!!!! I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE "HERO DIES AT THE END.........

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I do agree with this.  I think it would have been HORRIBLE if Shepard died at the end.

AntiChri5 wrote...

Yes it would have been much better.
Put that Lazarus cutscene where you wake up to see Miranda and Wilson talking and then black out after the credits.

Yeah....not for me it wouldn't have.  I already felt coerced into working with Cerberus by BioWare for ME 2.  I may not have enjoyed the opening scene, but at least at the end of ME 1, I was a Spectre and not working for Cerberus.

Actually I wasn't being sarcastic, NWN2 pulled this and I HATED IT, loved the game mostly so bought the second, but everytime I play it I hate the ending and since you export before the end, I just skip it most times.

Personally I hate the whole he dies, wait he's back stick, whether it is in movies or games, make a death mean something if you are going to make it story related.  The Virmire planet is great because you CAN'T save both, which to me makes it better story.  I would rather they say he is severly hurt and needed rehab than say he is dead.  Most of the times the reason they make the hero die is for dramatics and not wanting a sequel and then some smarta@@ comes along and says, "Hey, that made money, let's make another and get more money,"  so they bring the dead guy back and milk more money.  Most times I would rather have another hero emerge than have a reberth of a dead one.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Although in retrospect it would have been better for story continuity and story telling, if i were to go from ME1 to ME2 for the first time, the cliched "Dead hero is brought back to life in the sequel!!" would have left a bad taste in my mouth. I feel it's better that his death takes place in the start of ME2.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

yeah, i think some of the mass effect 2 editors were a bit retarded with the whole some guy completely dying and then working for cerberus thing, a organization that he fought against...likely attacked by them in the first place.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 08 octobre 2010 - 12:49 .

[Sneelonz]

Yeah, it really didn't make sense to have Shepard die and have him come back 3 minutes later.

[maxernst]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

yeah, i think some of the mass effect 2 editors were a bit retarded with the whole some guy completely dying and then working for cerberus thing, a organization that he fought against...likely attacked by them in the first place.

Yeah, that confused me, too.  Because of the way the cut scenes at the beginning are arranged, it really suggested to me that the Normandy had been attacked and destroyed by Cerberus. First they talk about how they need him, then his ship his attacked, then they're conveniently in position to recover his body?  It bothered me because I was thinking that attacking the Normandy was a needlessly difficult and costly way to get Shepherd--it would surely be more efficient and less risky to kidnap him when he was on the Citadel.

[FoxShadowblade]

I personally liked it happening in ME2, it shows that Shepard, renegade or paragon, will get everyone off the ship even if it costs him his life. It gives an emotionally charged scene of the ship you may have grown a bit fond of, the most advanced ship in the galaxy, getting blown away like nothing. It also allows the Normandy to be upgraded, made into a bigger warship, outfitted with some pretty slick weaponry. If he got a crushed by debris from Sovereign..pretty lame.



As for Cerberus being 'conveniently' in a position to recover him, read the books or comics, there was NOTHING convenient about how they recovered him. And are you suggesting that The Illusive Man somehow had a hand in his death? Because let me outline the problems with that theory, I've heard it far to many times, it is starting to annoy.

-The Collectors had been destroying ships for a few weeks in that area, so the Normandy is sent in to investigate, the Collector ship destroys it. In the famous words of that squid from Star Wars: "It's a trap!"

-The Illusive Man fought with the Shadow Broker tooth and nail to get Shepard's body back, because the Broker thought to sell it to the Collectors.

-Shepard knew the Reapers were out there, he would have realized what was going on with the disappearing colonies, they wouldn't need to ask for his help, He would have figured it out. So why get him killed, and undergo a reconstruction that could possibly alter his ability to fight or lead, or even his memory of the beacons and the cipher?



You see what I mean? Cerberus getting Shepard killed = crackpot theory. Doesn't make sense, especially when Illusive Man, and Cerberus, are putting humanity first. So let's kill humanity's greatest hero.

Let's talk about the start scene: Miranda talks about how Shepard is probably the only one who has the ability to stand against the reapers, and to secure humanity in the galaxy as a race. Illusive Man tells her to make sure 'We don't lose him'. Now I can see how this might be taken as wrong, but I believe it is merely saying watch out for him, send him the help he needs. So on, so forth.



Quite a bit off topic..but I hate that theory. ON subject of forum, better he dies in beginning and comes back. ME1 would've been a much lesser game if Shepard had died, would you have picked up ME2?

[maxernst]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I personally liked it happening in ME2, it shows that Shepard, renegade or paragon, will get everyone off the ship even if it costs him his life. It gives an emotionally charged scene of the ship you may have grown a bit fond of, the most advanced ship in the galaxy, getting blown away like nothing. It also allows the Normandy to be upgraded, made into a bigger warship, outfitted with some pretty slick weaponry. If he got a crushed by debris from Sovereign..pretty lame.

As for Cerberus being 'conveniently' in a position to recover him, read the books or comics, there was NOTHING convenient about how they recovered him. And are you suggesting that The Illusive Man somehow had a hand in his death? Because let me outline the problems with that theory, I've heard it far to many times, it is starting to annoy.

What I'm suggesting is that in the game, none of this is clear and the order in which the cut scenes are presented suggests that Cerberus decides they need Shepherd before the Normandy is attacked.  For whatever reason, they didn't write the cut scene as "oh my God, Shepherd's been attacked and is probably dying, we need to recover him!"  It's a little bit like the situation with Howe in DA:O--we've been told by David Gaider that Loghain wasn't working with Howe when he murders the Couslands, but there's nothing in the game to preclude that interpretation.

[crooked]

No, the last few hours of playtime in mass effect 1 are epic. Wouldn't want to have had it any other way

[pinkunoichi]

No, that would be too formulaic in a way. They were sort of pointing that way but lo & behold Shepard emerges triumphant from beneath the rubble.



It also made the opening sequence of ME2 absolutely shocking - the first time. Not to mention the whole scene was breathtaking.

[Siegdrifa]

Skirlasvoud wrote...


Been thinking... (First mistake, I know)

From a story and writer's point a view, it might have been better if Shep died right in the end of ME1 by being crushed under Sovereign debris. Would have made for a better story flow between games I think if Cerberus ressurected him thereon out. Dissapointing ending without the knowledge they'd ressurect him in ME2 and therefore unfeasable, but still.

If Shepard had died right in the midst of saving the Citadel, he would have been a much bigger legend, going out in a blaze of heroism. It's at least a better death than dying in the unknown reaches of outer space in the hands of some completely unknown foe. Right now, the overlap seems kind of abrupt if you immidiatly play ME2 after finishing ME1: You escape from death, only to die some time later.

If i remember well, when ME1 was release we knew it wouldn't be the last.
So, for people how knew it, it would have useless i think, to let shepard died at the end of ME1 and waiting 2 years to find out how he/she came back.

While playing ME2 after ME1 it make looks better to die in ME1, the roughly 2 years of time from each release don't give this impact at all.

The death in the bigining was more a attempt to give a god damn ****ing big introduction that was never made in video game.
Unfortunatly, death in story shouldn't be treated so causualy especialy when the games deal about the extinction of univers life. "wow i'm back !  this is commander shepard and cutting edge technologi kick ass LOL but it's so expensive it can't be done twice of cause or at least for anyone LOL LOL LOL "
I'm cursious to see if it will make more sense in ME3 or if they will leave it at that.
The ONLY attempt to justify this "overcome death situation" is a sentence you can hear in the citadel (if i remember right) about sientist finding out the death is may be not tied to the death of the brain, but through molecul ... ah sorry i can't remember well, may be someone can tell us what is the exact sentence.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 20 octobre 2010 - 10:11 .

[S-A128]

mcsupersport wrote...

NO!!!!!! I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE "HERO DIES AT THE END..........OH WAIT!!!!!SEQUEL!!! HE'S BACK!!!!!!!

It was hard enough with how it was done in ME2, that if they pulled that out of the box in ME1, I don't know if the bad taste would have worn off enough for me to by the sequel, especially since they changed the play in the game.

I totally agree with mcsupersport on the hero part. How will they make a news saying "guess who's back" (your face) anyway.... hero's dying at end of games is weird and does not make sense:bandit:

[Foolsfolly]

I don't think Shepard should have died in the beginning of the second game. At all.



If Shepard dies it should have been on the suicide mission (failure because Shepard can't import into ME3) or at the end of ME3.



Never should have killed him and brought him back. It'll make his eventual possible death less meaningful because there's always a "well if they have enough money they can bring Shepard back" thing nagging at the back of your brain.

[Mecha Tengu]

if shepard died, ending of ME1 wouldnt point to a sequel with shepard returning



at all



unless your the really gullible type to believe that everything can be solved with ressurections.

[pcrisipm]

the whole lazarus project deal in ME2 stinks!!



"meat and tubes" said Jacob when Shepard asked how bad he/she was. you don't fix "meat and tubes", no matter how good your tech is -- unless you use magic!



plus, Shepard dying right at the start is pointless -- ok, sure, the hero dies as a true hero, saving the crew, going down with the ship and blah blah blah.

still, it would make more sense if Shepard managed to get in a life pod (whatever they called it) and bail out, maybe get hit by debris and crash, the pod's life support systems sustaining Shepard at the brink of life until Liara found him in a bad state and handed over to TIM.



anyway, it would be nice if in ME3 we could import the savegame, regardless of Shepard's end, and in case our Shep died play ME3 as one of the crew's survivors. sure, it is a huge development effort, but still nice.

[Marbazoid]

What I didn't understand is how in ME2, some people say you had really bad injuries that took 2 years to fix, and others say you were dead?



I'm pretty damn sure you were conventionally dead, as in, as dead as you could possibly be. There was even a gap of time between when your body was recovered and when they started up the Lazarus project. It seemed odd that some people just thought you were knocked into a space coma for 2 years.



And I agree, Shep should have died under the remains of sovereign, the Lazarus project sequence taking place just before the cut to credits. It would have been a huge WTF to people at first, but people forget that Mass Effect was announced as a trilogy right from the start, and that trilogy was said to follow Shepard's story, so it wouldn't have been as bad as people think.

[mcsupersport]

If he had been crushed under Sovereign then you could have made the case that he wasn't really dead, just horribly injured, and spirited away by Shadow Broker operatives. I would have liked this more than a death scene. TIM uses Liara to recover you, who has maybe been put into cryo-stasis. This would give a plausible reason to be with Cerebrus(Healing and protection), make the cutscene with Miranda mean something, still give Liara a big roll to play. This covers the bases without the lame "He DIES!!! OH, WAIT, HE'S BACK!!"



Next Note:



I think they(writers) use the differences in references to your death or injury in ME2, as simply people don't think you can be brought back from the dead, so if you are alive, you couldn't have been dead for 2 years. So some people, in the know, refer to you as dead, but the average mook will say injured because to them if you were dead, you still would be.



Also when the lines were written they may not have fully decided whether to kill you or have you just severely injured. If this is the case, then I wish they had gone with injured, like I stated above.

[MobiusTyr]

It would of been more impossible to revive shep then, because his body would of been completely flat like a pancake

[FoxShadowblade]

Remember, he was only "mostly dead". Kidding.



Do you really want to know why Shepard died? BioWare wanted him to have a bigger ship. Probably not far off with that guess, sadly enough. It's shocking the first time through, tugs emotions, shows Shep to be hero, blah blah blah. Basically: It works. Imagine, if you can, that you just spent 40 hours playing ME1, and your level 50-ish all decked out in sweet armor and weapons and you get crushed during a cinematic. Would you have bought ME2? No. Don't lie. You wouldn't.



..On the subject of BioWare killing main characters, look at DA, you die in twenty years. Woo. New plot device needed? Correct.



On the Loghain/Howe tangent..I dunno, never paid attention to the critical details of DA..and my disc broke a few months ago..can't really remember the game.



As for spending two years and a billions upon billions of currency to bring him back hundreds of years in the future with cybernetic parts and what not, not impossible. Want to know why?

Because the ****ing game makers said so. Deal with it.