232 réponses à ce sujet

[Ortaya Alevli]

pizoxuat wrote...

I feel pushed to play Rogue Hawke, but that's because of my obsessive need to OPEN. EVERYTHING.

Why do I suddenly feel disturbed?

[pizoxuat]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

I feel pushed to play Rogue Hawke, but that's because of my obsessive need to OPEN. EVERYTHING.

Why do I suddenly feel disturbed?

But there could be treasure. 

[Lumikki]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Yes, but it does put me in position as be with outlaw kind of back ground. I don't like it. It's like playing thief or killer. In DAO you could choose you back ground, expect mage, but you where never side of outlaw.

Umm...no matter what the origin, the Warden was pretty much an outlaw for, oh, THE ENTIRE GAME.  That bit about the Wardens being blamed for Cailan's death and Loghain hunting you down?  

That aside, maybe not for the mage origin, but you can be pretty anti-establishment in the Dalish or City Elf origins.  As a City Elf, you can kill a bann's son.  As a Dalish Elf, you can kill innocent humans, get in trouble for it, and be generally pretty racist and prickly.

Doing anything inside game is fine as longer player did deside the action by them self, as choise to make. We are talking here pre-defined moral roles, before you even start playing your character, after character creation. Warden mage was never criminal in DAO. You can't make someone to criminal, if the accusations is not true. You can even make you self criminal by actions you make. Also if for player is given other starting options for character creation for you class, then you as player have choise too. If King of country declare you to be criminal, it's only true if you did what King sayed, but if it's based lie, you aren't criminal, but hunted as criminal. Been Apostate you know what the law says but YOU decided to become outlaw. If in DA2 you don't have that choise, you starts as criminal (apostate) without any choise in matter. Meaning developers made your characters moral choise behave you, when playing mage in DA2. You can maybe change your choise by actions and choises, if story lets, but you back ground choise is pre-define. What can conflict the way player likes to play as moral code.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 octobre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Lumikki wrote...
Doing anything inside game is fine as longer player did deside the action by them self, as choise to make. We are talking here pre-defined moral roles, before you even start playing your character, after character creation. Warden mage was never criminal in DAO. You can't make someone to criminal, if the accusations is not true. You can even make you self criminal by actions you make. Also if for player is given other starting options for character creation for you class, then you as player have choise too. If King of country declare you to be criminal, it's only true if you did what King sayed, but if it's based lie, you aren't criminal, but hunted as criminal. Been Apostate you know what the law says but YOU decided to become outlaw. If in DA2 you don't have that choise, you starts as criminal (apostate) without any choise in matter.

You're a Warden in DA:O, and you have no choice in the matter.  You save the world in DA:O, and you have no choice in the matter.  Is that a problem too?

You've gotta have SOMETHING for the writers to work with in the kinds of RPGs BioWare makes.  You could go for complete blank slate a la Icewind Dale, but then you really have no story or character arc because the writers have no hooks to work with.  In DA2, you belong to a family with a history of apostate magic, just like in DA:O, you belonged to the order of the Grey Wardens.  Keep in mind that the Grey Wardens also have a morally sketchy history and morally sketchy practices.  Did that bother you in DA:O?  

Also, I wouldn't call being an outlaw a moral role.  Anders, Flemeth, Morrigan, Aneirin, Gleam, Jowan: all apostate mages, all with very distinct moral stances.  Legally, they're in the same situation.  Morally?  Hardly.  And then we get into the whole thing of whether it's moral to obey an unjust law, and whether the injunctions against apostates are just.  That's a whole different can of anacondas.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 06 octobre 2010 - 09:05 .

[Lumikki]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

You're a Warden in DA:O, and you have no choice in the matter.  You save the world in DA:O, and you have no choice in the matter.  Is that a problem too?

Nope, because been Warden is just tittle choise. Saving the world is story or players choise.

It's about defining players character morality behave player.

Also, I wouldn't call being an outlaw a moral role.  Anders, Flemeth, Morrigan, Aneirin, Gleam, Jowan: all apostate mages, all with very distinct moral stances.  Legally, they're in the same situation.  Morally?  Hardly.  And then we get into the whole thing of whether it's moral to obey an unjust law, and whether the injunctions against apostates are just.  That's a whole different can of anacondas.

Npcs has not meaning in this case, they can be anything developers want. This is about making choises behave player.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 octobre 2010 - 09:10 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Lumikki wrote...
Nope, because been Warden is just tittle choise. Saving the world is story or players choise.

It's about defining players character morality behave player.

Npcs has not meaning in this case, they can be anything developers want. This is about making choises behave player.

Umm...correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter what kind of Warden you play in DA:O, you end up stopping the Blight and saving Ferelden.  Whole lotta choice there.  Yep.  Unless you just quit playing in protest, I guess.

Also, I think your opinion of the Wardens is a bit rosier than it actually is in game.  Warden is not just a title.  It comes with duties, responsibilities, and a lot of moral authority and weight.  Wardens are to stop the Blight whatever the cost.  Wardens lie, manipulate, blackmail, conspire with demons and blood mages, etc.  All toward the end of stopping the Blight.  There is moral baggage that comes with being a Warden.  How your character responds to it is your choice.  That it exists is not.

As for NPCs, I agree that they can be whatever developers want, but you missed my point.  My point is that being an apostate mage does not limit or define any character's MORALS.  It may define their legal status, but not their moral stance.  I brought up the NPCs as examples of apostates with very different moral stances.

[Fangirl17]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

But are there also plot oportunities that only open up if you play  a mage?

No, we hate mages. In fact, nobody will give you quests for the entire game if you're a mage. You just watch a cinematic of Hawke crying in a corner, excluded by the cruel, cruel world.

Yes, of course there are. We wouldn't include one without the other.

 XD Hahahahahaha.Thank you for brightening my day Mary :3

[Lumikki]

Apostate mage puts players character in postion what does define the morality. How player continue from that is different case, because it's based players choises and what story allow. How ever, apostate position doesn't really give much choises anymore, it's too pre-define role to play. I don't like to play non lawfull roles. Can you example say how does DA2 allow me to become non apostate mage in DA2?

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 octobre 2010 - 10:32 .

[AlexXIV]

Lumikki wrote...

Apostate mage put players character in postion what does define the morality. How player continue from that is different case, because it's based players choises and what story allow. How ever, apostate postion doesn't really give much choises anymore, it's too pre-define role to play. I don't like to play non lawfull roles. Can you example say how does DA2 allow me to become non apostate mage in DA2?

You don't start out as an apostate in DA2. The big difference to DA:O is that you are not a Warden during a Blight, so people won't overlook your crimes or breaking of laws. Just because your family are apostates (or parts of it) doesn't mean you have to side with them. In theory I guess you could become templar and hunt down your own family if the Chantry asks you.

Only thing is that the Chantry probably doesn't like to see a mage 'rise to power'.

[Lumikki]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Apostate mage put players character in postion what does define the morality. How player continue from that is different case, because it's based players choises and what story allow. How ever, apostate postion doesn't really give much choises anymore, it's too pre-define role to play. I don't like to play non lawfull roles. Can you example say how does DA2 allow me to become non apostate mage in DA2?

You don't start out as an apostate in DA2. The big difference to DA:O is that you are not a Warden during a Blight, so people won't overlook your crimes or breaking of laws. Just because your family are apostates (or parts of it) doesn't mean you have to side with them. In theory I guess you could become templar and hunt down your own family if the Chantry asks you.

So, are you saying that if I create mage in DA2 it can be Circle of Mage, while my sister is apostate?

Only thing is that the Chantry probably doesn't like to see a mage 'rise to power'.

Nor do I as mage want to see mage 'rise to power' nor I have any needs to fight agaist mages or chantry.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 octobre 2010 - 10:46 .

[AlexXIV]

Lumikki wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Apostate mage put players character in postion what does define the morality. How player continue from that is different case, because it's based players choises and what story allow. How ever, apostate postion doesn't really give much choises anymore, it's too pre-define role to play. I don't like to play non lawfull roles. Can you example say how does DA2 allow me to become non apostate mage in DA2?

You don't start out as an apostate in DA2. The big difference to DA:O is that you are not a Warden during a Blight, so people won't overlook your crimes or breaking of laws. Just because your family are apostates (or parts of it) doesn't mean you have to side with them. In theory I guess you could become templar and hunt down your own family if the Chantry asks you.

So, are you saying that if I create mage in DA2 it can be Circle of Mage, while my sister is apostate?

Only thing is that the Chantry probably doesn't like to see a mage 'rise to power'.

Nor do I as mage want to see mage 'rise to power' nor I have any needs to fight agaist mages or chantry.

Well Hawke will rise to power eventually, since he is becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. So as a mage that should prove a bit difficult if you are working with the Chantry. I am not sure if you start as Circle Mage, but you don't have to be an apostate. So I guess you can be a 'lawful' mage in Kirkwall.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 octobre 2010 - 10:50 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

pizoxuat wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

I feel pushed to play Rogue Hawke, but that's because of my obsessive need to OPEN. EVERYTHING.

Why do I suddenly feel disturbed?

But there could be treasure. 

Not...helping!

[AlexXIV]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

I feel pushed to play Rogue Hawke, but that's because of my obsessive need to OPEN. EVERYTHING.

Why do I suddenly feel disturbed?

But there could be treasure. 

Not...helping!

Don't worry. If there really is a treasure it is definately yours.

[Ortaya Alevli]

AlexXIV wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

I feel pushed to play Rogue Hawke, but that's because of my obsessive need to OPEN. EVERYTHING.

Why do I suddenly feel disturbed?

But there could be treasure. 

Not...helping!

Don't worry. If there really is a treasure it is definately yours.

And if there is something other than treasure?

That's the part that disturbs me...

[HopHazzard]

Lumikki wrote...
Nor do I as mage want to see mage 'rise to power' nor I have any needs to fight agaist mages or chantry.

I wish I lived in this world you seem to inhabit where it's always possible to avoid choosing a side no matter how much you want to stay out of things. Are you from Switzerland? Sometimes things happen and you get caught up in them whether you want to or not. If there's any kind of choice to me made regarding mages vs. chantry then you as the player are probably going to be the one making it. I don't think there will be an 'I don't want to get involved' option where you just sit in your house and let the opposing forces duke it out. That would make for a pretty boring game.

[_____o_O___]

As a mage I want to rise to power from behind the scenes. I will be the nice guy while manipulating events from the shadows. Other mages will form my council unknowingly and the chantry shall be my pawns keeping the mages in line.



Oh wait..nevermind this is a predefined game without infinite possibilities. Silly me...

[pizoxuat]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

I feel pushed to play Rogue Hawke, but that's because of my obsessive need to OPEN. EVERYTHING.

Why do I suddenly feel disturbed?

But there could be treasure. 

Not...helping!

Don't worry. If there really is a treasure it is definately yours.

And if there is something other than treasure?

That's the part that disturbs me...

Well, if it's not treasure I will just... leave it there. 

[Vicious]

I HATE being the special snowflake with special rules just for me.

Even in DA:O you had special rules just for you, such as drinking the mixture which gave you blood-related abilities, or getting mega stat buffs in the fade while your companions remained 'normal.'

In fact I really have to wonder how you play ANY of Bioware's games, as the protagonist is special and has access to/gains special abilities in pretty much every single one.


Yours is literally the single whiniest sounding complaint I have seen thus far.

Modifié par Vicious, 06 octobre 2010 - 11:33 .

[thegreateski]

I've got a good question.



The Human Mage Warden has a last name of Amell right? Amell is the last name of Hawke's mother. The Amells are a noble family from Kirkwall, which resides in the Free Marches.



My question is this. How in the world did a noble child from the Free Marches end up in a Ferelden Circle tower?

[Ortaya Alevli]

thegreateski wrote...

I've got a good question.

The Human Mage Warden has a last name of Amell right? Amell is the last name of Hawke's mother. The Amells are a noble family from Kirkwall, which resides in the Free Marches.

My question is this. How in the world did a noble child from the Free Marches end up in a Ferelden Circle tower?

The same way Ma Hawke ended up in Lothering?

[thegreateski]

. . . a wizard did it?

[Vicious]

How in the world did a noble child from the Free Marches end up in a Ferelden Circle tower?

Cousin of the royalty. Happens to have the same last name. Not really royalty at all. And certainly nothing to support your assertion that he/she came from the Free Marches.



That about do it?

[thegreateski]

Not really.

I never said the Warden was royalty. They're just a noble. And back in the day if you were even remotely related to a noble then that made you of noble blood.

and yes, there is stuff to support the fact s/he came from the Free Marches.

Like this.

Hakwe's mother's maiden name is Amell, and her side of the family is
nobility and lives in Kirkwall. The "Hawke" family name is not
nobility. [David Gaider - 09:22] NEW - 09/15

From the "What we know" thread.
----------------------------
Well crap. Now we technically have two Human noble origins.

Modifié par thegreateski, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:11 .

[Thresh the Qunari]

no

[Saint Joel]

Where does Gaider comfirm, cannon hawke is Blood Mage, he could just have power from his blood line over the fade.