54 réponses à ce sujet

[Caralampio]

Leliana is such a sweet character to interact with and to romance, but she's such a liability when you have to take her into battle. She's a notorious weak link in your chain, and makes battles so much harder when she's present.

She recognizes this herself... Frequently, after recovering from being unconscious, she says, "Why does this always happen to me?". Yeah. Exactly.

]]

The worst is that, unless your hero is a rogue, you're stuck with her if you want the services of a rogue. Zevran is a fine assassin but a null rogue (no picking pockets, no picking locks, no traps, no nothing). And he's also in the wimpy dept. anyway.

Modifié par Caralampio, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:28 .

[Iz Stoik zI]

I agree. I think Leliana had something like 29 deaths in my last playthrough, compared to 13 for Morrigan who was my next highest. My character only had 3, but I guess that's because we all tend to put a conscious effort into making the main character survive.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I disagree. Morrigan falls the most during my playtroughs. Leliana got less than 10 KOs in my last playtrough, and half of those were me being careless and not paying much attention. Barely anyone seems to care about killing Leliana in my games. Then again, my Warden goes bat-guano insane on anyone's ass who get's close to Leliana...



Anyway, she's quite useful in combat once I got some upper-tier bow talents for her. And even then, she can take some beating before I can get to her.

[Crippledcarny]

How the hell are you guys getting Leliana to die so much? She has, or at least should have, a ton of dex, which means a ton of defense. That and giving her stealth, she should never be touched.

If anyone ever dies in my games it would be Wynne or Morrigan pulling aggro without me noticing after a crushing prison or something.

[killpillz09]

Cripple, Leliana is really built for a high-cunning build, and honestly, on normal (well, it is my first playthrough of the game in a while) she out-dps's a 2h warrior which had just pumped dex and some will for skills + a S&S (alistair) which has 30 dex and about 60-70 str, and quite frankly I think my 2h warrior is getting out-dps'd by him to... =(



My leliana has not died since I got her (and it being her fault she died... she has died but that was due to my careless thinking...)... so I think your doing something wrong there... mind you she is a dual-wielder with The Roses Thorn and Dead Thaig Shanker if I remember correctly...

[Crippledcarny]

Build her cunning if you want her in melee, which I don't. And really she should be out dpsing a 2h warrior, their damage is a joke and sword and board isn't built for damage anyway.

Modifié par Crippledcarny, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:53 .

[caradoc2000]

Leli is definitely one of the most used and least KO'ed character for me.

[Iz Stoik zI]

I think it may be a problem with my tactics, she'll hit Scattershot at the start of a fight, steal the aggro, and Alistair can't taunt them off of her before she drops.

[Crippledcarny]

Taunt should be doing far more threat than Scattershot. If anything you might be having Alistair taunt too soon where it doesn't reach the ranged enemies and then Leliana picks up their threat with scattershot.

[termokanden]

There is no reason Leliana should die so much. The problem I think in this game is that the default builds that your party members have are all over the place and pretty random, so generally the characters you meet will be weak until you can start focusing their builds.



So when you first meet Leliana, she does low damage and has low survivability. But this is early in the game. I personally give her Song of Courage and Scattershot, give her a bow and a decent mix of cunning and dexterity. Now she can stay at range (i.e. out of the way!), buff your party, open locks, and use the brilliant AoE stun from Scattershot. No way Leliana is a liability after that.

[Mr_Steph]

How the hell do you make them die so often? :S



My characters and NPC's barely ever die.

[termokanden]

It all depends on whether you give them good gear, what kind of healing tactics you have, how good their builds are, and so on. Also if your main character is good at grabbing and holding aggro, it's easier to keep your party alive.

Basically if you don't make an effort to improve the NPCs, they will die very easily. If you do, they will become very helpful.

Modifié par termokanden, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:06 .

[Iz Stoik zI]

Oh I improve my NPCs. I give them all of the best gear I can find and I've been allocating their skills and stats in the right place, I just don't pay as much attention to them as I should. While Alistair is pretty fire-and-forget, Morrigan and Leliana need a little more micromanaging. Also Leliana seems to like getting up into point blank range to fight powerful enemies like the Archdemon or Flemeth for some reason.

[Mr_Steph]

Iz Stoik zI wrote...

Oh I improve my NPCs. I give them all of the best gear I can find and I've been allocating their skills and stats in the right place, I just don't pay as much attention to them as I should. While Alistair is pretty fire-and-forget, Morrigan and Leliana need a little more micromanaging. Also Leliana seems to like getting up into point blank range to fight powerful enemies like the Archdemon or Flemeth for some reason.

That's probably because she has dirty fighting or below the belt in her tactics. They always go in for that even if they are set to ranged.

[Victor Wachter]

Leliana in a must-have for me and is in pretty much every party. I spec her as a Ranger, get her pet out and then hit captivating song. Then I just focus on aggro management to keep the heat off of her between stuns.

[Iz Stoik zI]

Mr_Steph wrote...

That's probably because she has dirty fighting or below the belt in her tactics. They always go in for that even if they are set to ranged.

I always take Dirty Fighting out and I've never taken Below The Belt on her. She just has a certain obsession with running up to enemies with a bow to shoot them point blank.

[MorphlingV2]

If you want to make Leliana use the bow be sure to pick 'Ranged' for her behavior. Then she will try to keep distance. I know I have missed this the first time around.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Level 10-11 party on my current playthrough, and aside from total party wipes, Lel almost hasn't dropped at all. Three times she was the only one left and DW'ed her way to victory. (Acid Bombs may have helped)



She tends to be my preferred rogue, even if I'm a rogue myself (mage in current run) and she tends to be one of the more survivable characters unless a Nasty McBig targets her specifically before I can get Alistair (Tank) to grab it or drop it by other means.

[miltos33]

For as long as you make sure that she stays out of trouble by setting her behaviour to ranged and use her in the way that Victor Wachter suggested which is to crowd control with abilities like Scattershot and Captivating Song behind a pet that serves as a distraction then she becomes an invaluable support character for any party.

Modifié par miltos33, 07 octobre 2010 - 08:42 .

[killpillz09]

Leliana can also be a main dps character for any party - with the right gear and skills ofcourse, though there might be the small problem of money... and with that comes the RP codes a player has, which turns it into a bigger problem... but it's their choice.



@Crippledcarny - This game is all about experimenting, trying out news things and playing in unusual ways, which is what a RP game is to me, a chance to experiment in many different ways to find fun ways to play, and honestly, alistair could out-dps me due to the amount of str I gave him, I don't think many people choose for him to have ~30 dex and ~70 str due to the fact that he kinda starts out as a tank.



This game is about choices, and the choices op has made has led him/her to believe that leliana is a worthless character for everything but lockpicking & stealing... though others have different experiences. I'm going to stop trying to convince him/her that leliana is a character that is worth it to take along for more things than just lockpicks & stealing because it should be his choice whether or not leliana will be terrible. If he wants help to make her a more useful character, then he can ask and I'll try to help.



Oh, and if this came out as snobby or angry, I'm sorry, I sometimes get carried away, im just trying to be as level-headed as possible.

[Le_adder_noir]

I personally totally agree Leliana is the hardest character (although Oghren comes a close second) to build properly, ie. in a way that means they don't drop dead any time a darkspawn looks at them. Setting up tactics for archers is much harder to do right than any other class, and the powerful archer talents (AoS and in particular scattershot) draw shedloads of aggro. The last playthrough I did where I consistently took Lels I spent half my time battering anyone that attacked her! If you get a build an tactic set-up that works for you though, she can do serious amounts of damage. Overlook her at your peril I'd say.

[termokanden]

killpillz09 wrote...

Leliana can also be a main dps character for any party - with the right gear and skills ofcourse, though there might be the small problem of money... and with that comes the RP codes a player has, which turns it into a bigger problem... but it's their choice.

I never tried to make her a DPSer myself, always have my warden for that. Leliana to me is the perfect support character. She has a powerful buff (Song of Courage), she can stun with Scattershot and do some ranged damage, and of course she is always my lockpicker/trap remover. Unless you start out with a rogue yourself, it takes quite a while to get any kind of alternative to Leliana for lockpicking.

Other characters are much worse when you first meet them by the way. Sten, for example, is terrible. He starts out as a 2h warrior with quite low strength and no specialization. He can become very good later, but when you first meet him he's just not very good. Rather just have Dog with me.

honestly, alistair could out-dps me due to the amount of str I gave him, I don't think many people choose for him to have ~30 dex and ~70 str due to the fact that he kinda starts out as a tank.

At some point I decided to go that route and give him 26 dex for talents and otherwise just max strength. I was very impressed with him being much more useful than he normally is, so this is my standard Alistair S&S build now.

[Jon Jern_]

As soon as I gave Leliana Lethality (Or Scattershot, it depends which one I want to aim for first) she's always poaching my kills. Not nice. But as long as I get the killing animation for Flemeth, High Dragon, and Archdemon, I don't mind.

[Kalcalan]

Leliana has great potential. The real problem is that Rogues require at least some micromanagement to really shine. She can be both a Dual Wielder backstabbing goddess or a perfect ranged support character. Bows require less micromanagement, just set her to ranged attacks, activate Aim and leave it at that. Dual Wielding can be something else entirely. Riposte, Dirty Fighting and Stealth will allow her to backstab later on.



With maxed Cunning the Bard song is a great perk.