54 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

That's exactly why I give her a bow. DW rogues are best when you make sure they are always flanking and backstabbing. If you prefer mainly controlling the warden, this is obviously not an option.

[blaidfiste]

Leli as a backstabber can work without her needing constant micro. Get her coup de grace, poisons that stun and enchantments that paralyze.



Tactics:

Enemy nearest vis: dirty fighting

After 3 points in stealth, enemy nearest vis: stealth. She will drop aggro whenever stealth is available and possibly get a crit

Self being attacked by melee: distraction



Only my warden rogue gets micro attention but his tactics are the same for when I have to emergency switch to someone else.

[USSRVodka]

For me, when she went down it was mostly due to a 1 shot attack from a boss or big monster. She was usually eating all the big attacks while my mage ran around and Alistair and Oghren were hitting the said boss.

[chefbobby203]

I like to go assassin with Leliana for MoD goodness as well(especially if my PC is a warrior or mage).

[Cynical_Wanderer]

Double-post

Modifié par Cynical_Wanderer, 23 octobre 2010 - 02:04 .

[Cynical_Wanderer]

Caralampio wrote...

Leliana is such a sweet character to interact with and to romance, but she's such a liability when you have to take her into battle. She's a notorious weak link in your chain, and makes battles so much harder when she's present.

She recognizes this herself... Frequently, after recovering from being unconscious, she says, "Why does this always happen to me?". Yeah. Exactly.

The worst is that, unless your hero is a rogue, you're stuck with her if you want the services of a rogue. Zevran is a fine assassin but a null rogue (no picking pockets, no picking locks, no traps, no nothing). And he's also in the wimpy dept. anyway.

She may be a bit weak in the beginning, but, if built properly, she'd be one of your most deadly and hard to kill group-mates. Go for Scattershot and Master archer, maximizing Dex (not only good for attack, but closer to end game, her defense will go through the roof, making her extremely hard to hit for 90% of enemies), ranged crit and crit damage. The second class may be Ranger or Duelist (or even Assassin, if you don't want to spend all four points on the spec - the mark is good on its own). The first one is excellent due to summoned beasts having a good variety of skills to complement the group's strength (wolf is my personal favourite - howls plus Overwhelm in one is awesome - especially when you set tactics to overwhelm mages on auto), and Duelist is useful for maximizing her personal performance (attack and defense bonuses, pinpoint strike works for bows, but you'd have to activate it with melee weapons equipped, which can be annoying).

Also, having Wynne with proper tactics (regen on self and group if below 90%, heal when below 50% or 75% group heal if anyone is below 25% - such setup maximizes manaefficiency and protection against spike damage, also give her some affect-enemy-only CC spells (be it the mass paralisis, or the nightmare line) to further lower the pressure on the group) talent setup and gear (maximize mana regeneration and power) greatly relieves your headache in terms of individual character survival.

Modifié par Cynical_Wanderer, 23 octobre 2010 - 02:04 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

You're doing it wrong.



Leliana died 0 times during my Nightmare+ playthrough and was the main damage dealer against single enemies - moral of the story: don't blame the characters when you are the fault

[Kernel Cinders]

If you're going to use Leliana with a Bow, keep her Tactics Behaviour set on Range. If you feel the need to hit Dirty Fighting and/or Below the Belt, I'd recommend doing it manually.

[Tranceptor]

On my first playthrough I found her to be as tough as soggy tissue paper, but absolutely deadly with a bow.



In later playthroughs I got much better at managing her and she died considerably less.

[Zjarcal]

Leliana had zero deaths on my last playthrough on Nightmare difficulty. I had her as a dual wielder by the way. She also had zero deaths on my previous run, where I had her as an archer.

Actually, I had zero deaths on all my companions and PC on my last run.

It's just a matter of properly controlling them. My main party on this last run was Leliana, Zevran, and Morrigan. My PC was also a rogue. Three rogues and a mage. Zero deaths.

Companions aren't "squishy" or a liability, you just gotta learn their strengths and weaknesses.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 octobre 2010 - 02:16 .

[Lenimph]

Pfft I disagree highly... During my first playthrough my warden go on notorious suicide mission and KO all the time.

Leliana was usually was the last one standing and during the final battle actually slew the Archdemon...

Modifié par Lenimph, 25 octobre 2010 - 02:25 .

[termokanden]

Zjarcal wrote...

Companions aren't "squishy" or a liability, you just gotta learn their strengths and weaknesses.

To put it another way, you have to learn which builds work for all classes, not just the one your warden is using. After a few levels of adjusting their initial builds, any of your companions can be powerful.

I think people tend to put less effort into the character builds of their companions and do not give them the proper gear either. I was very guilty of this in my first playthrough. These days, my wardens have some serious competition.

Modifié par termokanden, 25 octobre 2010 - 08:22 .

[Zjarcal]

^^^



Indeed. I was also guilty of that on my first playthrough. I even made use of the auto-level up thingy.



GAH!



From the second run onwards I really took my time to build everyone's stats properly (according to what I wanted from them in that case) and give them decent gear.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Leliana in a must-have for me and is in pretty much every party. I spec her as a Ranger, get her pet out and then hit captivating song. Then I just focus on aggro management to keep the heat off of her between stuns.

"Aggro management" as in "Controlling the tank and using Shout everytime it's off cooldown"? ;D

[SpiderFan1217]

Caralampio wrote...

Leliana is such a sweet character to interact with and to romance, but she's such a liability when you have to take her into battle. She's a notorious weak link in your chain, and makes battles so much harder when she's present.

She recognizes this herself... Frequently, after recovering from being unconscious, she says, "Why does this always happen to me?". Yeah. Exactly.

]]

The worst is that, unless your hero is a rogue, you're stuck with her if you want the services of a rogue. Zevran is a fine assassin but a null rogue (no picking pockets, no picking locks, no traps, no nothing). And he's also in the wimpy dept. anyway.

You just use her wrong. It's not her fault. When I play I only loose people when I fight one of the three dragons and even then Leliana is the last person to fall for me, and she's not even one of my tanks.

Modifié par SpiderFan1217, 26 octobre 2010 - 09:46 .

[Shadedclan]

Actually Rogues are mothereffing badasses! They can kill everything faster than your warriors and mages combined. If you just know how to use them. My main Al and Morri died and all was left was Leli and she killed those darkspawned with those arrows.

[BooPi]

If she's getting into melee, that means you either have Dirty Fighting or Below the Belt in your tactics, or you forgot to set her to "Ranged" tactics.

My suggestion: set her to ranged. Set a tactic for Dirty Fighting and Below the Belt to trigger when an enemy is at short range only. That way, if one gets too close for comfort, she'll stun/debuff it, and then continue shooting. Set her to use Distract if she's being attacked by melee, and make sure it's set up to reset to Song of Courage (a self any *after* the Distract tactic will do it). Did you set her to drink potions? Also, pump DEX for maximum dodginess. Give her Evasion--it's bad for main character archers, but the AI benefits from it nicely. Scattershot for stuns. Set her to use Stealth as often as possible--it's free crits and it can keep her from attracting too much attention.

Finally, if she's set up right, she should always have stamina. So, I took daggers and Riposte for her just for the extra stun in case things get ugly. If you get stuck, pause, and chain Dirty Fighting, Scattershot, Riposte, and Stealth to make her impromptu crowd control or to get out of a bad situation. If that's not enough to stun or kill everything around her, Distract.

Have her carry several different types of bombs. If she's surrounded, stealth, scattershot, and throw 3 or 4 bombs on top of one another for a quick crowd gib.

Rogues should never die.

[Caralampio]

Well it seems different people have different experiences. When my character is a rogue, he/she usually does great, much better than a warrior. However, Leliana... I give her the best medium armor I can get. I give her good weapons. I set her in ranged and disable close combat tactics such as Below the Belt. But in most battles the enemies close in on archers and mages even if I have a tank or two which should attract their attention. Most battles in dungeons and castles are really close quarters or ambushes and Leliana just has to pull out her knives and defend herself.
Now I suppose I could use HER primarily and babysit her through battles, and leave my hero under the sway of programmed tactics. But hey, when I'm playing I like to use my own persona and secondarily give orders to the others. But I can't leave Leliability three seconds alone or I'll find she's down and out. Just like Sten. Or Zevran, although I don't use him much. Surprisingly, mages seem to hold their own pretty well even if attacked in melee. Go figure.

[chefbobby203]

This thread turned into a contest of who can pat themselves on the back the hardest for preventing injuries to Leliana

[termokanden]

No, we just really think this is wrong. Leliana doesn't somehow die all the time where other characters don't. Why would she? Technically speaking, there is no reason at least.

[Caralampio]

termokanden wrote...

No, we just really think this is wrong. Leliana doesn't somehow die all the time where other characters don't. Why would she? Technically speaking, there is no reason at least.

OK then tell me if my game's broken, or do I need some patch, or a  mod, because I've already been doing everything that has been recommended  here since long ago and Leliana still falls, and falls, and keeps falling.
And it's not my first playthrough either... I've played this game through about a dozen times. I can't believe Leliana is the best character for everyone and she only dies in my game...  

[termokanden]

I can't tell you what it is, I'm not looking at you playing right now. Honestly all characters can die very easily if they are not optimized for survival. I do not understand why Leliana in particular should have this problem.

I personally normally have Alistair tanking, and he seems to take most of the hits and most of the deaths. Leliana dies sometimes, I will not lie about that, but it's certainly not something spectacular that couldn't happen to other characters.

Technically, Leliana is just a rogue. There is no built-in "Leliana take more damage and aggro" feature.

Modifié par termokanden, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:23 .

[DWSmiley]

termokanden wrote...
There is no built-in "Leliana take more damage and aggro" feature.

Scattershot can have that effect if for some reason the rest of the group isn't doing any control of the battlefield.  For a recent party of mine it worked well to move Sleep down to Morrigan's last tactic.  That way, the beasties were first stunned then slept and by the time that wore off the fight was usually well under control.

Another possibility (maybe already made as I haven't read the whole thread) is if Lel's dirty fighting is conditioned on an enemy doing a melee attack she'll always run into the thick of things.  It should be only if she's being melee attacked.

[termokanden]

Yeah Scattershot obviously gives her a lot of threat.



For my playstyle though it doesn't matter much. I like having my main character up close and personal, meaning they will usually have any aggro, and I use Alistair to mop up the rest.



If all else fails, stealth gets you out of nearly anything. You can even use pots while stealthed.

[Trenrade]

She dies alot for me, but also she does almost 57% of my groups DPS, also her traps, bombs  and lockpicking are just awesome to have around. Only one who comes remotely close (at 23% of damage) is Alistair who serves as my tank.

Modifié par Trenrade, 04 novembre 2010 - 12:23 .