48 réponses à ce sujet

[Riggs]

I recently saw in a forum someone questioned how kaiden/ashley survived horizon when they were among the first to be paraylized by the seeker swarms, but no one really responded so I would like all of your opinions on how they somehow walk up to us at the end of the mission as if nothing happend.  It was brought up that they could have been turned into an agent for the reapers, I mean its all speculation at this point with the next game not being released for a while but I would like to know if anyone else but me thought it was a bit wierd that ashley/kaiden got out of stasis and somehow found you before you left the planet.

[Sesshomaru47]

Or they could have just gotten lucky with your timely arrival.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Was wondering this myself.

[StarcloudSWG]

Yes, Ashley was one of the first to be paralyzed in that particular part of the colony. But "first" doesn't necessarily mean anything. The colonists were dragged off in relation to their proximity to the Collector ships. The closest ones were taken first. Ashley could have been one of the further bodies, and then Shepard arrives and chases off the Collector ship.

[Mox Ruuga]

It's one of the plot holes, or lapses in logic, or whatever in ME2.

I think it was smudboy who mentioned it in one of his excellent ME2 critique vids, that the Collectors hit Horizon precisely because the VS was stationed there! Shepard and TIM both reach this conclusion, and there is nothing in the game to counter it.

So why do they then ignore the very person who they targeted? Didn't they manage to find him/her? Not believable, as they nabbed poor Lillith, who didn't manage to run very far from the VS before she was paralyzed...

[Silentmode]

I wondered the same thing but was more amazed by how occupied they were with Cerberus instead of the giant bug eyed things that just paralyzed them and kidnapped half of the colony they were charged with defending.

[Elite Midget]

Don't forget that they have Military modifications as well, thus their bodies might have been able to ward off the effects fast enough.



I'm sure I read somewhere that Ashley used the standard Soldier Mod B package in ME1 and I'm sure both got some mod upgrades in ME2 with their promotions.

[DarthCaine]

Only 1/3 of the colony was abducted, Shepard disrupted their process

Modifié par DarthCaine, 06 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .

[Hyper_gateway]

So, in another word, Shepard have saved Ash/Kaiden once again...

[Dave of Canada]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Yes, Ashley was one of the first to be paralyzed in that particular part of the colony. But "first" doesn't necessarily mean anything. The colonists were dragged off in relation to their proximity to the Collector ships. The closest ones were taken first. Ashley could have been one of the further bodies, and then Shepard arrives and chases off the Collector ship.

However, Lilith was taken and she was paralyzed not too far from Ashley / Kaidan. That entire part of the colony was completely taken, meaning that Ashley / Kaidan should've also have been taken.

[yummysoap]

Plot armor. The chick right next to her got abducted but the collectors somehow overlooked the only human with bright pink armor and a gun that she was using to shoot the little paralyse-y bugs. Or, like, him, if anyone actually saved Kaiden.

[V-rex]

My theory had always been that they were going after Ashley/Kaiden because they wanted to invoke a response from Shepard, i.e someone you care about is in trouble, go and rescue them.

So if anything in this logic, Ashley/Kaiden would be nothing more than bait in this circumstance. I mean what exactly would the Collectors gain by making curry out of the only lead they have with Shepard so if anything they'd save Ashley/Kaiden for last.



Then of course Shepard himself/herself (god damn, dual universe logic sucks) arrives on the scene and well, when you have a choice between taking on the one lead you have to your target, or your ACTUAL TARGET ITSELF, I'm pretty sure most would go for the latter. So Ashley/Kaiden, along with the rest of the colony were left unattended. Hence with Ashley's military armor and Kaiden's L2 implants, either one could have shaken out of it.



That's my take on it anyway, leave them incapacitated but save them till last, especially if the actual Commander Shepard suddenly comes a'knockin.



... Or it's just a plot hole.



Also to the people who are talking about how Shepard 'saved them' it's worth remembering that if it hadn't been for Shepard and to a degree his alliance with the Illusive Man, Ashley/Kaiden would not have been in danger in the first place. As from my understanding the reason the Virmire Survivor (that's easier than saying Ashley/Kaiden) went to Horizon was that there was a tip that it was the next colony to get hit by 'Cerberus attacks' and the one who sent that was The Illusive Man himself.

So essentially in the point where Shepard is having an argument with Ashley while defending Cerberus, he is rather unaware that it was actually Cerberus who allowed a fair bit of this to happen. So claiming 'I saved your life' loses a little bit of merit when you consider your employer who you are now speaking in defense of is also the reason her life needed saving in the first place.



Also, if ANYONE gets it into their head some silly idea that Ashley or Kaiden were indoctrinated and are now semi humanoid brainwashed reapers or something.... No.

I have wanted Ashley to return to the story and for that Love Interest subplot to get resolved for too long now to have it suddenly get washed away into a crummy:

"OMG SHE'S TURNED DA EVILZZZ!!!1!!!1!@!12!!!"

Plot twist because we just had to find resolution for a largely unimportant plot hole. Sorry if I come across as a little angry here but truth be told I think the growing number of Ashley/Kaiden fans would rather see a proper resolution to their story then to have them just turn into indoctrinated boss fights.

[Selenora]

V-rex wrote...

Also, if ANYONE gets it into their head some silly idea that Ashley or Kaiden were indoctrinated and are now semi humanoid brainwashed reapers or something.... No.
I have wanted Ashley to return to the story and for that Love Interest subplot to get resolved for too long now to have it suddenly get washed away into a crummy:
"OMG SHE'S TURNED DA EVILZZZ!!!1!!!1!@!12!!!"
Plot twist because we just had to find resolution for a largely unimportant plot hole. Sorry if I come across as a little angry here but truth be told I think the growing number of Ashley/Kaiden fans would rather see a proper resolution to their story then to have them just turn into indoctrinated boss fights.

Agree.
Both of them are LI. Why should we be the only ones that will have to deal with such a dramatic plot?
all other fans got what they wanted....Tali / Garrus Romance, Liara resolution..........new LIs...........it would be unfair to us to find out that the person we romanced has been indoctrinated

[AdamNW]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

It's one of the plot holes, or lapses in logic, or whatever in ME2.

I think it was smudboy who mentioned it in one of his excellent ME2 critique vids, that the Collectors hit Horizon precisely because the VS was stationed there! Shepard and TIM both reach this conclusion, and there is nothing in the game to counter it.

So why do they then ignore the very person who they targeted? Didn't they manage to find him/her? Not believable, as they nabbed poor Lillith, who didn't manage to run very far from the VS before she was paralyzed...

It's only a plot hole if you seriously overanalyze it, like you just did.

If you want a REAL plot hole, try the seeker in Mordin's lab.

[tishyw]

AdamNW wrote...
If you want a REAL plot hole, try the seeker in Mordin's lab.

I wondered about this one myself, and how the VS managed to survive, but it's a game, so I suspended my disbelief and got on with it.

[Pauravi]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

It's one of the percieved plot holes, or lapses in logic, or whatever in ME2.

I think it was smudboy who mentioned it in one of his excellent ridiculous and nit picky ME2 critique vids, that the Collectors hit Horizon precisely because the VS was stationed there! Shepard and TIM both reach this conclusion, and there is nothing in the game to counter it.

So why do they then ignore the very person who they targeted?

The obvious reason is that they don't care about Ashley, they care about Shepard.
This was also explcitly mentioned by TIM in the same breath as his supposition that Ashley's presence lured them there.  The only reason that they followed Ashley is because they knew that Shepard would follow.  There is no reason to think that they'd bother to specifically single her out for abduction, however.  Considering that well over half the colony was not taken, it seems to me that there is a pretty fair chance that Ashley would simply have been left behind.  And, since we have no specific information about how the Collectors go about loading people onto the ship, there is no objective reason to decide that this was unlikely.

No plot hole -- except where people are bound and determined to see one.

[Pauravi]

Dave of Canada wrote...

That entire part of the colony was completely taken, meaning that Ashley / Kaidan should've also have been taken.

How do you know this?  Hint: You don't, you're simply assuming.

We have no specific information about how the Collectors go about the process of abducting a colony.  There were "floating coffins" strewn all over Horizon -- for all we know, they send several groups of Collectors to several different sites around the colony, and each of the groups had only managed to abduct 1/3rd of the colonists in each area.  Or maybe they had only just begun taking the colonists from where Lilith was frozen (we don't know her exact location, after all), and they simply hadn't gotten to Ashley yet.

There are a many possibilities, none of which we have the information to choose between as players.  For some reason, people are determined to interpret the scenario in a way that makes it seem as if there is an inconsistency when in fact there is not.

[ReluctantMind]

This one has never seemed like much of a plot hole. People have already stated that the VS was the bait, not the target. Lilith runs for several seconds toward the heart of the colony while the VS is frozen at the edge of the colony. The Collectors then land in the heart of the colony and likely fan out collecting colonists. Not that hard to believe that they did not make it the extra fifty yards from Lilith to the VS. Assuming they detected the Normandy coming in system they may have interrupted their collecting even earlier to prepare for Shepard.

[Lunatic LK47]

DarthCaine wrote...

Only 1/3 of the colony was abducted, Shepard disrupted their process

I'll go with half of the colony since it's been mentioned by the engineer, Shepard, and TIM. The debriefing is more of a continuity error on BioWare's part.

[Mox Ruuga]

Pauravi wrote...

The obvious reason is that they don't care about Ashley, they care about Shepard.
This was also explcitly mentioned by TIM in the same breath as his supposition that Ashley's presence lured them there.  The only reason that they followed Ashley is because they knew that Shepard would follow.  There is no reason to think that they'd bother to specifically single her out for abduction, however.  Considering that well over half the colony was not taken, it seems to me that there is a pretty fair chance that Ashley would simply have been left behind.  And, since we have no specific information about how the Collectors go about loading people onto the ship, there is no objective reason to decide that this was unlikely.

No plot hole -- except where people are bound and determined to see one.

Err... what? The VS was a bait indeed, but one exploited by TIM. The Collectors didn't know Shepard would come looking for Ash or Kaidan, how could they? Or did TIM contact them as well and hint that Shepard would be specifically there, that day, meeting with his or her former squaddie?

No, the Collectors were looking for the VS, if it wasn't blind luck and both Shepard and TIM were wrong about why they hit that world. Or do you really think they would start camping there, waiting for Shepard to appear? Risking being caught on ground by Alliance or Council warships? Nah, it was the usual smash and grab with a bonus objective, not a trap for Shepard.

[StarcloudSWG]

1/3rd. "Half the colony's in there!" from an obviously distraught guy who locked himself in the colony's power plant isnt' a reliable estimate.

[Major Truth]

Selenora wrote...

V-rex wrote...

Also, if ANYONE gets it into their head some silly idea that Ashley or Kaiden were indoctrinated and are now semi humanoid brainwashed reapers or something.... No.
I have wanted Ashley to return to the story and for that Love Interest subplot to get resolved for too long now to have it suddenly get washed away into a crummy:
"OMG SHE'S TURNED DA EVILZZZ!!!1!!!1!@!12!!!"
Plot twist because we just had to find resolution for a largely unimportant plot hole. Sorry if I come across as a little angry here but truth be told I think the growing number of Ashley/Kaiden fans would rather see a proper resolution to their story then to have them just turn into indoctrinated boss fights.

Agree.
Both of them are LI. Why should we be the only ones that will have to deal with such a dramatic plot?
all other fans got what they wanted....Tali / Garrus Romance, Liara resolution..........new LIs...........it would be unfair to us to find out that the person we romanced has been indoctrinated

An indoctrinated LI would not have reacted the way Ash/Kaidan did to Shepard on Horizon. They would have jumped at the chance of joining the crew !!

[Iona]

I'm thinking that the Alliance had a suit similar to Shepards that negated the effect of the seeker swarm to a certain extent. Top secret stuff.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Why would the Collectors abduct the VS?



It's Shepard they are after, The collectors cares nothing for the VS, In fact it's better for them to not abduct Ash or Kaidan - If Shepard didn't show up at Horizon they might use the VS to lure Shepard out once again.

[Zhijn]

AdamNW wrote...
If you want a REAL plot hole, try the seeker in Mordin's lab.

That one had me going "but how!" myself. But i do remember Shepard saying something about evidence from Freedom's Progress, altho my first thought was just the omni tool. Okeer also mention he had some evidence we might be interesting in.
Either way that part could have been explained better, like so many other parts. DNA cloning?

Modifié par Zhijn, 06 octobre 2010 - 11:19 .