120 réponses à ce sujet

[brfritos]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

brfritos wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

brfritos wrote...

But wait, Tela Vasir wasn't on official duty for the Council, she was doing a job for the Shadow Broker.
And if I saved the Council and accepted Spectre Status she greet me like one, so in the form of law Shepard is not committing a crime.

Guys, have you ever heard of a phenomenon called "judicial error"? It's when a person not guilty of the crime in question gets convicted. For whatever reason. Crooked cops, bribed judge, incompetent jury, unfortunate circumstantial evidence.

In our case, the ultimate reason, of course, will be the necessity to bust Shepard down to level one, strip him of all skills, squadmates, weapons, give a tutorial level and possibly a pretext fo character customization, as the topic suggests. In-universe it will be the politics of Mass Effect. TSB's intel says, that the Council was considering Shepard's suspension immediately after the Battle of Citadel, even before all these Cerberus stories.

Allright, Shepard is used by the Council as a escape goat, I can accept that.

But Shepard is regarded as a hero by humans, so this should reflect in a manner that humanity was divided about his trial, also starting a crisis between humanity and the Council.
Even if the Alliance was stupid and swallow the whole thing, this probable could lead to humanity being against the Alliance.

Bear in mind that Humanity in general is a lot more acceptive of Cerberus and Terra Firma ideals than you average Paragon Shepard. Just listen to what Mr. "I Wash My Hands " Gardner has to say. Also some Humans are extremely distrustful of the Alliance already... and Shepard ("a big Alliance hero or something..."). Finally, if the Council/Alliance know how to use the media, Shepard will go from Hero to Villain in no time.

Sorry, but humanity being more willing to accept Cerberus or the Terra Firma ideals is hard to belive.
We only heard one side of the story, Ashley even call them "jackals" in the first game and in any political system there are a lot of sides of the spectrum.
Also Cerberus needs to use "front companies" in Horizon to give support for the colony, but the reason was never explained.

If people are so willing to support Cerberus and Horizon is a human colony, why they hide themselves? They could use the opportunity to gain strengh.
You have some individuals that support  Cerberus and Terra Firma, no doubt of that, but from this to "general acceptance" is a long way to go.

But my point is not this, even with your idea of trial there is some decisions you make in the game that can turn this "farse trail' in a bad business to Council and Alliance, so there's some other options, not only one.

Modifié par brfritos, 07 octobre 2010 - 06:10 .

[Zulu_DFA]

brfritos wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

brfritos wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

brfritos wrote...

But wait, Tela Vasir wasn't on official duty for the Council, she was doing a job for the Shadow Broker.
And if I saved the Council and accepted Spectre Status she greet me like one, so in the form of law Shepard is not committing a crime.

Guys, have you ever heard of a phenomenon called "judicial error"? It's when a person not guilty of the crime in question gets convicted. For whatever reason. Crooked cops, bribed judge, incompetent jury, unfortunate circumstantial evidence.

In our case, the ultimate reason, of course, will be the necessity to bust Shepard down to level one, strip him of all skills, squadmates, weapons, give a tutorial level and possibly a pretext fo character customization, as the topic suggests. In-universe it will be the politics of Mass Effect. TSB's intel says, that the Council was considering Shepard's suspension immediately after the Battle of Citadel, even before all these Cerberus stories.

Allright, Shepard is used by the Council as a escape goat, I can accept that.

But Shepard is regarded as a hero by humans, so this should reflect in a manner that humanity was divided about his trial, also starting a crisis between humanity and the Council.
Even if the Alliance was stupid and swallow the whole thing, this probable could lead to humanity being against the Alliance.

Bear in mind that Humanity in general is a lot more acceptive of Cerberus and Terra Firma ideals than you average Paragon Shepard. Just listen to what Mr. "I Wash My Hands " Gardner has to say. Also some Humans are extremely distrustful of the Alliance already... and Shepard ("a big Alliance hero or something..."). Finally, if the Council/Alliance know how to use the media, Shepard will go from Hero to Villain in no time.

Sorry, but humanity being more willing to accept Cerberus or the Terra Firma ideals is hard to belive.
We only heard one side of the story, Ashley even call them "jackals" in the first game and in any political system there are a lot of sides of the spectrum.
Also Cerberus needs to use "front companies" in Horizon to give support for the colony, but the reason was never explained.

If people are so willing to support Cerberus and Horizon is a human colony, why they hide themselves? They could use the opportunity to gain strengh.
You have some individuals that support  Cerberus and Terra Firma, no doubt of that, but from this to "general acceptance" is a long way to go.

But my point is not this, even with your idea of trial there is some decisions you make in the game that can turn this "farse trail' in a bad business to Council and Alliance, so there's some other options, not only one.

Jackals or not (and common wisdom says Ashley migth have a very personal reason to say that) Terra Firma seems to be quite influential. Otherwise, why would TIM bother with putting "the right man" at its helm? And Cerberus itself does not need publicity. They are shadow-ops not terrorists.

As to the "farse trial", any heroic deed Shepard might have done (like saving Feros, Horizon or what not) can be easily turned around to look like a cold-blooded calculated populist move in the now uncovered plan to overthrow the legitimate authorities.

And it can be not a public trial at all. There might even be no trial as such, just an indefinite detention of a terrorist suspect...

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 octobre 2010 - 06:30 .

[Spectre_907]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Guys, have you ever heard of a phenomenon called "judicial error"? It's when a person not guilty of the crime in question gets convicted. For whatever reason. Crooked cops, bribed judge, incompetent jury, unfortunate circumstantial evidence.

An Asari company Baria Frontiers is blown up. Shepard, known for his Cerberus connection is on the site. Cerberus are pro-Human terrorists. Council Spectre Tela Vasir is killed.

All right, let's take a look at Shepard's criminal count in its entirety:

• Destroying the Thorian.
  
• Killing/releasing the Rachni queen.
  
• Detonating nuclear devices on Virmire and Pragia.
  
• Hi-jacking the Normandy SR-1.
  
• Failing to report back to the Citadel after surviving an unknown assailant's attack on the Normandy SR-1.
  
• Continuing to feign own death, while associating self with Cerberus, a terrorist group and an avowed enemy of the Council and the System Alliance.
  
• Having an illegal AI system aboard a private space vehicle, creating a sentient space vehicle with military grade equipment and with firepower of a heavy cruiser (at least).
  
• Sheltering convicted and wanted criminals aboard the ship.
  
• Unauthorized relations of unclear nature with reclusive and quarantined races, including the Geth.
  
• Murder (including that of a Council spectre).
  
• Terrorism.
  
• Unlawful detention.
  
• Torture.
  
• Burglary.
  
• Abusive language and conduct.
  
• Smuggling.
  
• Tax evasion.

"Spectres answer to no law or authority accept the Council itself." - Avina

In our case, the ultimate reason, of course, will be the necessity to bust Shepard down to level one, strip him of all skills, squadmates, weapons, give a tutorial level and possibly a pretext fo character customization, as the topic suggests. In-universe it will be the politics of Mass Effect. TSB's intel says, that the Council was considering Shepard's suspension immediately after the Battle of Citadel, even before all these Cerberus stories.

There is nothing in the Shadow Broker dossiers claiming that the Council was considering stripping Shepard of his/her Spectre status. At most there are two emails to Anderson and Hackett (individually) about a request to Anderson to cease vocal support for and investigation into Shepard, citing matters of galactic security, and a request that the Alliance capture Shepard for interrogation to which it was denied by Hackett (and rightfully so!).

Now, even if your particular Shepard has missed the opportunuty to commit every and all of that, and although most of that stuff was done in the Terminus Systems, that are lawless by definition (but some of it, including the gravest last count is very well ubiquitous), it still makes sense to put an end to your activities, if only in order to prevent drawing public ire to the Spectres and Council policies. But actually it more looks like you've been long preparing to go by Saren's steps and stage a massive coup to overthrogh the Council and crown yourself Emperor or something (which must be even more of a concern to the Old Council with Paragon Shepard's choices).

He/she has already undone things the Council did in the past in the interests of galactic stability or disobeyed them (Rachni queen, Tera Firma, entering the Terminus, etc.) and it does look like he/she is following in Saren's footsteps. But Shepard hasn't done anything to indicate a rogue Spectre. Example: Shepard hasn't attacked any Council-affiliated colony with his/her krogan/geth/quarian/rachni army, like Saren. They also agree to a partnership with Cerberus and any operations there if Shepard stays in the Terminus systems. It wouldn't make sense to try Shepard without any grounds to support it.


The trial does makes sense provided Shepard is not a Spectre but not if Shepard is a Spectre. But if there is some DLC where Shepard does something that the Council will see as treasonous (like attack a Council-affiliated colony) then the trial could be done. But not as a stripping down to level 1 with reconstruction thing. It makes better sense to do that in at the beginning of the game before the story occurs.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 07 octobre 2010 - 07:27 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

@Spectre_907, if BioWare are taking the trial route, which I'm pretty sure they are, then your decisions matter not -- a Spectre or not. They can't apply such a critical plot twist to just one kind of Shepard. You'll be imprisoned regardless, like they did with the whole KIA thing.

[-Skorpious-]

The reapers begin a search on the extranet (or wherever it is they receive their information from) in an attempt to uncover information about Shepard. Based upon the information provided by the reapers, the player can successfully create/edit his or her Shepard.

This also allows us to view the choices/decisions our Shepard's have made in ME/ME2 - the status of the council, who died on Virmire, fatalities due to the suicide mission, ect.

On a sidenote - I do not support the "trial" idea at all. If Shepard is even arrested by the Alliance/Council it pretty much destroys any hope of Shepard using democracy to win galatic support against the reapers. After all, what self-respecting government would even consider granting audiance to a man/woman who the Council deems a "traitor".

The only option at that point would be for the reapers to invade a homeworld and have Shepard say "I told you so".

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 07 octobre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Mr Plow]

ReconTeam wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...
How about (briefly) breaking the 4th wall and having a character creation screen, with no explanation? I'd rather have that than another poorly-explained resurrection.

Agreed. Agreed 1000 times over.

Please this. Simplest and cleanest way into the game for both loyal fans and newcomers

[Spectre_907]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

@Spectre_907, if BioWare are taking the trial route, which I'm pretty sure they are, then your decisions matter not -- a Spectre or not. They can't apply such a critical plot twist to just one kind of Shepard. You'll be imprisoned regardless, like they did with the whole KIA thing.

Exactly. Which is why I think they should just avoid it altogether and have a character creation at the beginning and give new players a default background. Clean and simple.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Spectre_907 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

@Spectre_907, if BioWare are taking the trial route, which I'm pretty sure they are, then your decisions matter not -- a Spectre or not. They can't apply such a critical plot twist to just one kind of Shepard. You'll be imprisoned regardless, like they did with the whole KIA thing.

Exactly. Which is why I think they should just avoid it altogether and have a character creation at the beginning and give new players a default background. Clean and simple.

To be honest, that's still a possibility in and of itself. But BioWare, being BioWare, probably won't stop at that. Story explanations are usually something they include no matter what. And imprisonment just happens to be a very logical explanation given the current status of the story and where it's at.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Now how is the Council going to catch a top of the line stealth-frigate? And if they still consider you a Spectre, why would they go through the trouble of it all?

I say just do a character creation/modification at the very start without any strings attached.

[Dean_the_Young]

ReconTeam wrote...

Now how is the Council going to catch a top of the line stealth-frigate?

Give you reason to be somewhere, and then be there when you arrive.

Same way the untrackable Collectors got blindsided at Horizon.

And if they still consider you a Spectre, why would they go through the trouble of it all?

Just because you're a Spectre doesn't mean you've acted in a way they appreciate. You were already on thin ice in the first place, and the Spectre status a formality. Any 'rogue' Spectre, as even a Paragon can be, is politically worse than you not being a Spectre at all.

[Zulu_DFA]

Spectre_907 wrote...

There is nothing in the Shadow Broker dossiers claiming that the Council was considering stripping Shepard of his/her Spectre status. At most there are two emails to Anderson and Hackett (individually) about a request to Anderson to cease vocal support for and investigation into Shepard, citing matters of galactic security, and a request that the Alliance capture Shepard for interrogation to which it was denied by Hackett (and rightfully so!).

Uh, it was Cerberus Daily News actually, of 09/17/10, that hinted on the Council's intention to suspend Shepard.

Spectre_907 wrote...
He/she has already undone things the Council did in the past in the interests of galactic stability or disobeyed them (Rachni queen, Tera Firma, entering the Terminus, etc.) and it does look like he/she is following in Saren's footsteps. But Shepard hasn't done anything to indicate a rogue Spectre. Example: Shepard hasn't attacked any Council-affiliated colony with his/her krogan/geth/quarian/rachni army, like Saren. They also agree to a partnership with Cerberus and any operations there if Shepard stays in the Terminus systems. It wouldn't make sense to try Shepard without any grounds to support it.

Having Saren as a recent and vivid example, I think they could decide they'd better took pre-emptive action, before Shepard would be ready to unleash all his allies on them.

Spectre_907 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

@Spectre_907, if BioWare are taking the trial route, which I'm pretty sure they are, then your decisions matter not -- a Spectre or not. They can't apply such a critical plot twist to just one kind of Shepard. You'll be imprisoned regardless, like they did with the whole KIA thing.

Exactly. Which is why I think they should just avoid it altogether and have a character creation at the beginning and give new players a default background. Clean and simple.

There also must be a means to advance the story at least a few years further, and present a reasonable excuse for any Shepard to cut ties with any faction that they might be loyal to, because of all the other Shepards who might not be loyal to that faction.

Hell, Shepard may be even abducted by the Batarians. Still imprisonment.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 08 octobre 2010 - 12:51 .

[Randy1012]

Pretext: Ashley finds out Shepard cheated on her. By the time she's done with him, Shepard's face is so messed up he needs reconstructive surgery to repair it.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I hope for an option to set the scaring to a certain point. There's a point between normal and "demon" that looks quite nice when you just have tinted red eyes. And the ability to remove the scars but not the eyes would be good.

[Cryo84]

I swear on everything holy, if Mass Effect 3 pulls a Metroid "All your powerups fell down a well" job, I'm not buying it. It's arbitrary nonsense.

[ScooterPie88]

smudboy wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard's trial.

I'm gonna have to hand this to Zulu.

There were so many things wrong in ME2.  ME3 will simply be another ME2, so it makes sense to find the figurehead of such flawed issues to the point of stripping them down to level 1, and granting the experience to new players again.

Unless they want to play the amnesia, all a dream, or resurrection card.  Again.

This is also the ultimate form of lampshading the entire narrative of ME2.  Which could use it.

For someone who dislikes ME2 so much you talk about it an aweful lot.

As for ME3 who knows what will happen though I am not opposed to a straight creation screen with no backstory.  Since I use the default male Shepard for both games it doesn't really matter if they have one at all.  Everytime I try to make a custom character in any game it always turns out looking like a Re-Re.  For example just look at my avatar; he was stupid looking before I gave him the derp look.

[InHarmsWay]

adam_grif wrote...

Having left the Alliance and officially died, Shepard's Alliance records were sealed. After making contact with the Alliance again after the events of ME2 (regardless of the outcome), the Alliance demands that he edits his now reopened profile in their database to accurately reflect the changes and events that have taken place since the termination of his service.

This is most likely.

[Spectre_907]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There also must be a means to advance the story at least a few years further, and present a reasonable excuse for any Shepard to cut ties with any faction that they might be loyal to, because of all the other Shepards who might not be loyal to that faction.

Hell, Shepard may be even abducted by the Batarians. Still imprisonment.

Advance it some other way. The trial option is just not going to work with Shepard being reinstated. And the captured by batarians idea is just ridiculous.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 13 décembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Maybe someone blows up the Normandy, spacing Shepard and then he/she has to work against them with a shady group, all while never saying a peep about said shady group!



That also lets people make a custom shep and tweak things!



Nah who would ever do such a stupid reset?

[Kavadas]

Whatever they do all I ask is that they allow modding of an imported Shep's face.  Being forced to start fresh every time at default Shep's viasage sucks.

It's so ****ing annoying in ME2...

Modifié par Kavadas, 08 octobre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Spectre_907]

Kavadas wrote...

Whatever they do all I ask is that they allow modding of an imported Shep's face.  Being forced to start fresh every time at default Shep's viasage sucks.

It's so ****ing annoying in ME2...

Agreed.

[Turin_4]

It's clear to who, Saibh? The Council? Whose presumable only supporter would be Anderson, if him, and he'd be outvoted 3:1. I'm not saying it's what'll happen, but in such a scenario, well, you're relying on the organization suggested to be betraying Shepard to...well, be loyal to shepard.

[forestsavage]

What about the batarians, I feel that they could be a more reasonable foe to take Shepard into captivity, and a source of extensive torture which would be the excuse for a facial and skill work over. After being rescued by either the Normandy, the alliance or the council a debriefing and or questioning with a physical restoration would follow, this could well be the pretext to settling the Cerberus issues of Mass Effect 2.

[Havokk7]

You wake up and find Bobby in the shower. It has all been a dream about the strangest episode of Family Guy ever.

[Dave of Canada]

Shepard sees Legion swimming in space and deems that if Legion is cool enough to do it, he can do it too. He tells Miranda to prep up the Lazarus Project and jumps out swimming in his underwear. Of course he freezes, hits orbit and dies again.



Though since we don't have TIM's resources, Shepard is rebuilt with duck tape and a hammer resulting in more scars that allow Renegades FULLY BODY CYBORG SCARS! HELLZ YEAH!

[Angel-Shinkiro]

Shepard gets punched/kicked in the face really hard causing him to need surgery.