250 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

BrotherWarth wrote...

dbankier wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

So can't people be on the fence or even against DA2 without being called whiners, fanboys, misinformed, or any other insults?

Of course, that's fair enough, but it goes for both sides of the fence too. The forums would be a better place without that, and also without certain users implying that anyone who likes the direction of DA2 is some sort of imbecile.

I don't think people that like where DA is going are stupid. ME2 was obviously a massive success. I just don't think people who don't like where DA is going deserve to be insulted and treated like idiots.

that's fine by me, i'm all for constructive criticism. i myself like the direction DA2 is taking though i'm concerned for the character creator for consoles, it really needs some improvements.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

I'll risk incurring the wrath of people here:

I'm in favour of a no-inventory game. Meaning you carry a main weapon, a shield(if you prefer) or another weapon if you're dual-wielding. Your weapon(s) and equipments stick with you until you find a better one from the foes you kill.

Enemies may drop gold too for crafting expenses. You may find rare crafting items for weapons like in Awakening which you can put in your backpack but you can't store different armors and weapons in it.

Modifié par The Hardest Thing In The World, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Hex of Hell]

I wasn't aware that the same people who worked on ME:2 were working on DA:2. Silly me had thought it was a different team altogether. I guess it makes sense then to judge what may or may not have occurred with a completely different and, beyond the fact that it is also made by BioWare, unrelated game.



This honestly seems like a thread that is more about Mass Effect than it is about Dragon Age. You don't like Mass Effect. That's nice. That has nothing to do with Dragon Age. Just because you feel misled by things you felt entitled to in the sequel by virtue of their being in the original is no reason to shout that the sky is falling. This isn't "Dragon Effect" as people keep saying (though I personally think a crossover game would be AWESOME!). It's a completely different game by a completely different team. How about giving them the benefit of the doubt? If they haven't at least earned that from you, I don't think you'd be so passionate about the issue in the first place.

[AlanC9]

BrotherWarth wrote...
The "inventory system" in ME2 was just a list of weapons, only the newest of which you ever used since each one was just a better version of the last. There was no point in using any weapon other than the newest one.

I don't check you on that . It sure looks like some weapons are better against some opponents than others.

Upgrades are also part of the system. Or are you telling me that those don't count or aren't worth getting? 

[AlanC9]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

I'll risk incurring the wrath of people here:

Not mine. I only wish that ME2 had gone further.

[Ortaya Alevli]

I suggest trying to understand what the original post says Instead of jumping around with the same old "Nooooo, ME2 was far better than ME1!" rant. Point here is not whether ME2 was superior or inferior. Point is, there were vast differences other than "overhauled combat system" and we all were in for a big surprise, for better or worse. Which raises concerns related to how different DA2 will be compared to the Origins. Valid concerns. There exist valid reasons to expect DA2 to be much different than DA:O in aspects other than combat as well, based on the ME2 example. There exist NO valid reasons to play the blind zealot when someone raises his concerns over the matter. It is indeed frustrating when your logical deductions are treated as mindless doomsaying, especially when one is talked down to by Orzammar crier wannabes who act like they're being paid for what they do.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, I got sidetracked. My point was that I simply was not surprised by the changes in ME2. I never saw anything to suggest that the ME1 inventory mess wasn't going to be cleaned up, for instance.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm... The armor of ME2 was far more customizable than the armor in ME1... At least for Shepard. I could mix and match several different armor pieces which ALL looked different, and I could even recolour them.

[ashwind]

BrotherWarth wrote...
The "inventory system" in ME2 was just a list of weapons, only the newest of which you ever used since each one was just a better version of the last. There was no point in using any weapon other than the newest one.

Somehow I dont find that the case. Newer weapons are not always "better", they are different. Rapid firing + less damage and slow firing + powerful + low ammo, etc.

As for the Removing RPG elements part... I personally do not find that it was removed - characters are still interesting; there is even a singing Salarian 

I do not think BW will make Dragon Effect 2... I hope they do not...

Modifié par ashwind, 06 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Veex]

Kind of an argument of semantics really. They changed many of the RPG aspects, they didn't remove them. That of course doesn't excuse someone vilifying constructive criticism as trolling or calling someone a fanboy simply because they have a difference of opinion. That is the way of the internet however, no matter how often people hope for more civil discussion it usually degrades into personal attacks at some point, whether veiled or overt.

[Stompi]

Criticism isn't bad. It's the style and tone that matters.
Many people seem to think that Bioware is only allowed to make classic RPG's and every removed feature is some kind of betrayal. They will often tell you that the end of Bioware is near and that everyone who doesn't hate the "dumbed down" games is a fanboy or a stupid casual/console/shooter gamer, who is destroying the entire industry. It's like they always have to tell you what we are allowed to like. So there is name-calling on both sides.

Modifié par Stompi, 06 octobre 2010 - 07:14 .

[SoR82]

Yep you could recolour shepherd my problem was the rest of the party......

BrotherWarth wrote...



The fans. We all know changes are being made, but too many "fans" take any criticism or negativity as a personal insult and act like internet-white-knights for Bioware.

Ill agree with this comment though the amount of bile directed not even necesarily insulting posts against da2 is bordering on the insane. I freely admit I dont like what I have seen so far from DA2 I'll be more than happy to change my mind if im proved incorrect about what concerns I have. For example that trailer, for me that trailer was the characterisation of everything I feared would come from DA2, One ridiculously over powered (not to mention lazily named) uber warrior/mage thingie that took the horny bastard whod just slaughtered what seems to be most of a army single handed. Looked like he was loosing or soemthing and then... then he what exactly? is he possesed? or did the qunari (who incidently dont all have horns you know but some do even though youve never seen it before, we have mentioned this in the codex apparntly but well ignore requests from people as to where) simply get ... thr person who im not naming mad?



The Sacred ashes trailer captured what I felt DAO had gone for a team working together to stop overwhelming odds. Not some random.... person with a lame name.



Because I pointed this out I was apparently trolling... Ive yet to see why but there you go. Anyhow rant over ill go play Dead Rising 2 and take my annoyances out on the mindless zombies there instead of the ones here XD

[David Gaider]

Part of the problem, I think, is that people shut off their ears once they've heard what they want to hear (and that applies equally to both those in favor of DA2's direction as well as those opposed).

I myself have said on numerous occasions that there are many changes, to combat as well as RPG elements. Not everyone is going to be a fan of them. Some people will be, for sure. Some people who disliked DAO will like DA2 far more. Some people will, without a doubt, take those changes as "OMG it's not an RPG anymore!" --which really couldn't be further from the truth, but some will make the claim anyhow. Some people assume that because we are doing some features like Mass Effect's, we must do them in the exact same way and thus the entire game will be exactly like Mass Effect. It's not, but it not being exactly like Mass Effect doesn't make it exactly like DAO, either.

The truth, as it is with most of the cases on these forums, lies somewhere in the middle whereas some people always like to push it to the extremes. It's either THIS or THAT, nothing in-between. We either said THIS or THAT, with any cautions or explanations ignored.

And you can do that, if you like, but don't be surprised at the results.



We're open to criticism, and there's no need to shout down anyone who offers a dissenting opinion (although it does happen, sadly)... but neither is there any need to rant and rave, especially if you've already decided that DA2 isn't for you. That may very well be, after all, and fans of the game will simply have to accept that's the case. Sadly, everyone seems to take a very confrontational stance here, and look on any view as something that must immediately be disproven (or else BioWare will believe it's true, I guess is the assumption? Mustn't let that happen!)... and, again, this is true for both sides.

Relax, people.

Modifié par David Gaider, 06 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[Meltemph]

The main reason people get all pissy when you disagree(for good or ill of the game), most of the people who are fine with the changes who act aggressive or those who think the changes are game shattering, act like their way of playing/enjoying the game is the only correct way. Which gets obnoxious, but personally, more so with those who don't like something is normally the most obnoxious.



People who just praise the game(and have terrible opinions) and are always thanking the devs is easy to ignore and has no bearing on anything post-launch, specifically for someone not seeing anything to complain about(just yet). However, the people who complain the loudest are almost always act like their view point is the only view point to have and acting like there is not a single thing about the new game coming out, that they like.



And then if anyone calls them on their obvious aggressiveness or obnoxiousness about their own view, they try and label you a fanboy. Also, a lot of them are very hostile to the devs, and it gets annoying when they try to pass themselves as experts in the field, instead of acknowledging that it is only their opinion based on nothing but preference.



Fanboys, however, typically don't get annoying until the launch of the game.

[nightcobra]

Stompi wrote...

Criticism isn't bad. It's the style and tone that matters.
Many people seem to think that Bioware is only allowed to make classic RPG's and every removed feature is some kind of betrayal. They will often tell you that the end of Bioware is near and that everyone who doesn't hate the "dumbed down" games is a fanboy or a stupid casual/console/shooter gamer, who is destroying the entire industry. It's like they always have to tell you what we are allowed to like. So there is name-calling on both sides.

it almost seems like we're DA's mages or something:whistle:

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 06 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[pChar]

The OP has a good point even though the post could have been a bit more constructive.

BrotherWarth wrote...

The Lead Designer for Origins turned down the job for DA2 because he didn't like the direction they decided to take it and even left Bioware after 10 years because he didn't like what Bioware has become. 

I'm curious about this though, where did you read that?Link would be much appreciated.

Modifié par pChar, 06 octobre 2010 - 07:22 .

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Well, some just resort to calling you all kinds of things whenever there is a heated argument going on. Then the worst kind would be those who was quiet before, decided to lunge at you. You get all sorts on any internet forum you go to.

[Ortaya Alevli]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Is it really unreasonable to expect that a sequel be more than just similar to its predecessor?

Unreasonable? No. Though I wouldn't expect that many people would like that. I, for one, would welcome a sequel with improved features and new additions.

I wouldn't Fireball you for having concerns as to how different DA2 may turn out than the way BioWare presents it, however.

[_____o_O___]

Come on the official forums and besmirch the holy ones name! How dare you sir! Blasphemer! GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR! GOOD DAY I SAY!



Why worry about insults comming from someone you don't know over the internet? I don't care what others think and I dismiss insulters. Such are not worth responding to. :monocle:



As for the rest of your post. I like me2 over the first one after replaying both and don't care what devs "promise". Everything is subject to change, its done when its done, and *modders and/or patches will make it okay are the holy trinity.



*May not apply to consoles.

[Beerfish]

The big factor in critical posts is the delivery of the message. People only get jumped on for the most part if the original post is not well thought out or made in such an inflammatory way that the message gets lost in the delivery. Also the original posters response to any rebuttals usually determines whether the thread will continue on and be productive or degenerate.



A classic example of a critical poster that presents his opinions in a reasonable manner is Slyvanus the Mad. He makes a lot of posts about what he thinks are problems and though people may disagree with most of them he presents them in a logical enough fashion and doesn't fly off the handle when rebuttal is made. Thus the threads survive and discussion ensues.



Unfortunately many people feel as if they have to make a post as if they are some film critic who needs to not only make a point but to do so in a strong fashion.

[Meltemph]

BrotherWarth wrote...

pChar wrote...

The OP has a good point even though the post could have been a bit more constructive.

´'The Lead Designer for Origins turned down the job for DA2 because he didn't like the direction they decided to take it and even left Bioware after 10 years because he didn't like what Bioware has become.'

I'm curious about this though, where did you read that?Link would be much appreciated.

Brent Knowles' own blog. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to it. You can find it via google though. It was in the last post in a ten-part "series" about his time at Bioware.

http://blog.brentkno...08-summer-2009/

Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter.

This is the part most people are talking about.  His main disagreement was that it was going with a lack of customization of his character, and also seemed to imply(at least back then) that they were discussing simplifying(relative to meaning I suppose) the tactical aspect of it.

He seems to infer that the main complaints where more because they were taking on a more cinematic/story telling approach, then one of the CRPG approach.