201 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

TheMufflon wrote...

Would you rather have her say 'Forsooth!"?

Mayhap.

Edit: I got beaten.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 octobre 2010 - 11:56 .

[SirOccam]

WilliamShatner wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Stooping to swearing like ME2. Ugh.

It's not really stooping, though, is it? Lots of people really use those words in real life. They are just as much a part of the English language as any other, so why whitewash everything? It got a little excessive on the part of Jack at times (like if you choose the first paragon option after meeting her, she goes "s**t, you sound like a p*ssy"...that just sounded so forced to me), but throughout the rest of the game it seemed pretty reasonable.

It just makes sense to me that in a game such as these where there are going to be moments of great intensity, it's pretty likely at least one person will use a curse word at some point, like any normal person.

Swearing comes from moments fo weakness and slips.  Writing is an elevated form of speech which people have time to give thought to.  If i wrote what I hear people say on the street most of it would be unintelligent, uninteresting drivel.

Okay, I'll concede the point that "swearing comes from moments of weakness and slips" (which I don't really believe, but still). But then...they are writing dialogue for people who are prone to such moments of weakness, no? Their dialogue shouldn't sound like writing; that would be a sign of poor writing. They are not writing for characters who always have the most eloquent phrase imaginable on the tips of their tongues. The longer it takes a writer to think of it, the less natural it sounds, since people don't usually sit there and craft their spoken responses like that.

[Icinix]

Hmm...



I don't want an astronaut to make a cameo.



Yeah, that would kill it for me.

[HTTP 404]

A happy ending

[Fangirl17]

I would hate,HATE,for DA2 to end in a freaking cliffhanger. It needs to have some closure and then at the end a hint as to what is in store for DA3,but I have a feeling that that is indeed how DA2 will end, a big fat "HAHA you have to wait 1-2 YEARS for the next game MWAHAHA!" cliffhanger.

[M8DMAN]

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Stooping to swearing like ME2. Ugh.

It's not really stooping, though, is it? Lots of people really use those words in real life. They are just as much a part of the English language as any other, so why whitewash everything? It got a little excessive on the part of Jack at times (like if you choose the first paragon option after meeting her, she goes "s**t, you sound like a p*ssy"...that just sounded so forced to me), but throughout the rest of the game it seemed pretty reasonable.

It just makes sense to me that in a game such as these where there are going to be moments of great intensity, it's pretty likely at least one person will use a curse word at some point, like any normal person.

ME was a great M rated game that had zero to no swearing in it. 

Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against swearing, its just that useing swearing to make a character appear hardcore is lazy writing.

[SirOccam]

M8DMAN wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Stooping to swearing like ME2. Ugh.

It's not really stooping, though, is it? Lots of people really use those words in real life. They are just as much a part of the English language as any other, so why whitewash everything? It got a little excessive on the part of Jack at times (like if you choose the first paragon option after meeting her, she goes "s**t, you sound like a p*ssy"...that just sounded so forced to me), but throughout the rest of the game it seemed pretty reasonable.

It just makes sense to me that in a game such as these where there are going to be moments of great intensity, it's pretty likely at least one person will use a curse word at some point, like any normal person.

ME was a great M rated game that had zero to no swearing in it. 

Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against swearing, its just that useing swearing to make a character appear hardcore is lazy writing.

Agreed, but a hardcore character with squeaky clean language is lame writing. It shouldn't be the only way to show they're so hardcore (which is why I didn't like Jack's first line), but most of the swearing in ME2 felt pretty natural, as in it would be what a normal person might say in the same situation. In fact, Joker's over-the-top instance ("sh*t sh*t sh*t sh*t...what the sh*t!") was pretty hilarious, I thought. As in all things, moderation is key. They don't have to jump straight to prohibition.

I also thought ME was a good game too, but I did like ME2 better (not because there was swearing in it, though). I don't think swearing instantly makes anything better, nor that it's required for a game to be good, but if it's used correctly, it can help the characters feel more natural.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I don't want any broccoli.



10 internets for anyone who gets that

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

But seriously, I don't want to see aspects of the game not only tightened butsqueezed out altogether (ie inventory in ME2). I don't want to see a much shorter game with shorter side quests that dont feel related to the plot at all..

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I dont want to see difficult-to-unlock chests that contain a deep mushroom once you finally have the skill to open it.



If you are going to make a locked chest, make the contents worthwhile.

[WilliamShatner]

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Stooping to swearing like ME2. Ugh.

It's not really stooping, though, is it? Lots of people really use those words in real life. They are just as much a part of the English language as any other, so why whitewash everything? It got a little excessive on the part of Jack at times (like if you choose the first paragon option after meeting her, she goes "s**t, you sound like a p*ssy"...that just sounded so forced to me), but throughout the rest of the game it seemed pretty reasonable.

It just makes sense to me that in a game such as these where there are going to be moments of great intensity, it's pretty likely at least one person will use a curse word at some point, like any normal person.

Swearing comes from moments fo weakness and slips.  Writing is an elevated form of speech which people have time to give thought to.  If i wrote what I hear people say on the street most of it would be unintelligent, uninteresting drivel.

Okay, I'll concede the point that "swearing comes from moments of weakness and slips" (which I don't really believe, but still). But then...they are writing dialogue for people who are prone to such moments of weakness, no? Their dialogue shouldn't sound like writing; that would be a sign of poor writing. They are not writing for characters who always have the most eloquent phrase imaginable on the tips of their tongues. The longer it takes a writer to think of it, the less natural it sounds, since people don't usually sit there and craft their spoken responses like that.

If people wrote like people talked we'd be missing some of the most significant and important dialogue and soliloquies ever written.  Back in the Jacobean era people didn't actually speak like Hamlet or Macbeth when they rattled off stream-of-conscious soliloquies where they poured out every thing they were thinking or saying.  A writer should always strive for a higher standard than what we normal folk do otherwise you might as well just record a conversation.  Writing should inform and inspire.

Agreed, but a hardcore character with squeaky clean language is lame
writing. It shouldn't be the only way to show they're so hardcore
(which is why I didn't like Jack's first line), but most of the swearing
in ME2 felt pretty natural, as in it would be what a normal person
might say in the same situation. In fact, Joker's over-the-top instance
("sh*t sh*t sh*t sh*t...what the sh*t!") was pretty hilarious,
I thought. As in all things, moderation is key. They don't have to jump
straight to prohibition.

Off the top of my head: James Cagney, Robert Mitchum, Robert Ryan, Humphrey Bogart, Richard Widmark, Clint Eastwood all created some of the most induring hardcore badasses and psyschos ever and without the need for swearing.  Subject Zero wouldn't last in a room some of the tough guys these guys portrayed, and the quality of the writing and characterisation was vastly superior to that of ME2.

I'm not against some swearing in DA, the level of swearing in DA:O was fine and appropriate for the setting but if it's going to go all Witcher on us... ugh...

[Esbatty]

I got called "churl" one too many times in DAO. Also "fool". My only options were to ignore the insult or kill them. I'd like to be able to flip them the bird or bite my thumb or bang their mother/signifcant other. A third option is always a plus.

[Chuvvy]

DLC that isn't the downloadable equivalent of being spit on.

[Esbatty]

Slidell505 wrote...

DLC that isn't the downloadable equivalent of being spit on.

But... some people like to be spit on.

[SirOccam]

WilliamShatner wrote...

If people wrote like people talked we'd be missing some of the most significant and important dialogue and soliloquies ever written.  Back in the Jacobean era people didn't actually speak like Hamlet or Macbeth when they rattled off stream-of-conscious soliloquies where they poured out every thing they were thinking or saying.  A writer should always strive for a higher standard than what we normal folk do otherwise you might as well just record a conversation.  Writing should inform and inspire.

Look, I love the writing in Dragon Age as much as anyone. It's by far my favorite part of Origins.

But let's be honest, it's not Shakespeare. And it doesn't have to be. Shakespeare is transcendent (in fact I have memorized two soliloquies and a sonnet just because), but it's not what every work of literature needs to aspire to. Just like Leonardo Da Vinci was an amazing artist but there's still room for ****** and Van Gogh and Dali and Rembrandt and Escher and so forth. Some works are amazing for the poetry of their language, while others are amazing for other reasons.

Look at Samuel Clemens' works. He's certainly no Shakespeare, but his works are highly esteemed, and rightly so. Huck Finn certainly never soliloquized his internal turmoil with flowery language.

I'm puzzled by this seemingly arbitrary demand that characters have to be all poetic. If that's the style, or the character happens to be a poet, then sure, but otherwise it doesn't make sense to me.

Agreed, but a hardcore character with squeaky clean language is lame writing. It shouldn't be the only way to show they're so hardcore (which is why I didn't like Jack's first line), but most of the swearing in ME2 felt pretty natural, as in it would be what a normal person might say in the same situation. In fact, Joker's over-the-top instance ("sh*t sh*t sh*t sh*t...what the sh*t!") was pretty hilarious, I thought. As in all things, moderation is key. They don't have to jump straight to prohibition.

Off the top of my head: James Cagney, Robert Mitchum, Robert Ryan, Humphrey Bogart, Richard Widmark, Clint Eastwood all created some of the most induring hardcore badasses and psyschos ever and without the need for swearing.  Subject Zero wouldn't last in a room some of the tough guys these guys portrayed, and the quality of the writing and characterisation was vastly superior to that of ME2.

That's fine, and again, I said swearing doesn't need to be a requirement. But neither do we need to be afraid of it. They're just words, after all. They can't hurt us, and there's nothing actually wrong with them unless they're overused, and even then it's not so much a problem with the words as it is with the overuse.

I'm not against some swearing in DA, the level of swearing in DA:O was fine and appropriate for the setting but if it's going to go all Witcher on us... ugh...

I don't even remember any swearing in DAO. Well actually I guess Alistair called Morrigan a b*tch, and Leliana did too in dialogue that was cut from the game. It was fine with me as well; it's not like I would demand there be more. But if there does turn out to be more, I don't think it has to be a bad thing.

I really don't get what's so bad about swearing. Swear words aren't inherently bad, they're just bad because we as a society have all metaphorically gotten together and decided to be offended by them. And that concept just confuses the hell out of me. What's so bad about throwing an F together with a U, a C, and a K? And how come FCUK isn't bad? And why is "screw" better? Why is "crap" okay but "sh*t" isn't? None of it is based on any kind of reasoning.

Then people do things like I heard there was a huge poll and everyone decided that c*nt was the worst word EVER. Okay, so now we've just pointed out the perfect word for people to use when they want to shock or offend us. That's like Superman telling Lex Luthor "hey, whatever you do, don't let kryptonite get near me."

Anyway, I could rant about this for hours, but I'll do us all a favor and stop now.

[TheBlackBaron]

Been listening to Carlin's Seven Dirty Words routine lately, SirOccam?

But I agree with you. Swearing is fine as it long as it's done in a way that feels natural for a character as opposed to just being highly gratuitous. Of all the things people complained about in the lead-up to ME2, I thought that was one of the strangest.

[Wyndham711]

I dislike swearing. Especially when I explicitly hear it. Reading it I can swallow easier, but every single time I hear swearing it rubs me the wrong way. And if anything this is especially true in a fantasy game. I want tamer language in my fantasy RPGs, no matter how 'realistic' or dark their subject matter or style is otherwise. Tamer in the sense that there is little to none swearing, or if there for some strongly justified reason is, the words chosen are tame or specifically invented.

[Harbinger963]

-I don't want ridiculously poor quality items being fed to me late in the game when it doesn't matter and I can't do anything with them anymore. Just give currency if that is the case, it will make the whole process shorter.

-I don't want to see boring combat sequences where your PC waddles up to an enemy and begins to simply take turns hacking at each other, combat is about action, and just remember one thing about tactics and plans "No plan survives contact with the enemy" - Carl Von Clausewitz

-I don't want conversation and in game choices to be clear cut on good or bad. I believe that you should be forced to make those hard choices. This is what makes BioWare games so much fun compared to games like C&C, DoW, or TQIT which are all linear.

-I don't want this game to feel rushed. Most game put together in a hurry are usually of poor quality and are just frustrating in the end. I would rather wait for a awesome game then get an alright game.



-As for somethings that I would like seeing, one would be hard situations with no clear way out. Sometimes life just isn't fare, you make your choices and live with the outcome you get or don't as some cases maybe, be it good or bad.

-I would like to keep some kind of inventory for DA. I can see why it was changed for ME2, due to magic items being non-existent and you already having some good gear, your just finding upgrades for that gear. But fantasy possesses this magic and long lost powerful magical items are always fun to find.

-I would like to play multi-class. If I was a magic user, I would certainly not leave myself with magic as my only weapon, however powerful it is. Plus the Destiny Trailer, had Hawke throwing magic around as well as intense fighting skills. So I will keep my hopes up.

[Reaverwind]

Fangirl17 wrote...

I would hate,HATE,for DA2 to end in a freaking cliffhanger. It needs to have some closure and then at the end a hint as to what is in store for DA3,but I have a feeling that that is indeed how DA2 will end, a big fat "HAHA you have to wait 1-2 YEARS for the next game MWAHAHA!" cliffhanger.

Yes, that would indeed make the game a no-go for me.

[RPGmom28]

I agree with Harbinger about level appropriate loot. Obviously we're not going to put away our named sword with gobs of stats and use a darkspawn axe, or take off blood dragon plate and put on chainmail. Coin is a much better idea.

[mopotter]

WilliamShatner wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Stooping to swearing like ME2. Ugh.

It's not really stooping, though, is it? Lots of people really use those words in real life. They are just as much a part of the English language as any other, so why whitewash everything? It got a little excessive on the part of Jack at times (like if you choose the first paragon option after meeting her, she goes "s**t, you sound like a p*ssy"...that just sounded so forced to me), but throughout the rest of the game it seemed pretty reasonable.

It just makes sense to me that in a game such as these where there are going to be moments of great intensity, it's pretty likely at least one person will use a curse word at some point, like any normal person.

Swearing comes from moments fo weakness and slips.  Writing is an elevated form of speech which people have time to give thought to.  If i wrote what I hear people say on the street most of it would be unintelligent, uninteresting drivel.

I don't mind an occasional bit of swearing in high moments of stress.  I don't say anything stronger than darn it, but I have been known to let loose a stronger form of anger and when I do my family takes notice and duck for cover.  

I have a problem when it's used constantly.  Someone cusses all the time and I no longer listen.  

[mopotter]

TheBlackBaron wrote...


I'd also like to seem them break away from the more minor "BioWare tropes", so to speak. DA:O and ME2 did a good job at deviating from the formula of KotOR and Jade Empire, I'd also like that to extend to some others that tend to pop up a lot, such as whiny male leads (I'm lookin' at you, Carth and Kaidan). I am excited to see how the framed narrative changes things up as well.

Personal preference.  Carth and Kaidan are not whiny.  I'll take a Carth, Kaidan or older Alistair any day over some obnoxious twit who thinks he's gods gift as a LI.     Actually I've liked most of the LI BioWare comes up with.  

[AllThatJazz]

mopotter wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Stooping to swearing like ME2. Ugh.

It's not really stooping, though, is it? Lots of people really use those words in real life. They are just as much a part of the English language as any other, so why whitewash everything? It got a little excessive on the part of Jack at times (like if you choose the first paragon option after meeting her, she goes "s**t, you sound like a p*ssy"...that just sounded so forced to me), but throughout the rest of the game it seemed pretty reasonable.

It just makes sense to me that in a game such as these where there are going to be moments of great intensity, it's pretty likely at least one person will use a curse word at some point, like any normal person.

Swearing comes from moments fo weakness and slips.  Writing is an elevated form of speech which people have time to give thought to.  If i wrote what I hear people say on the street most of it would be unintelligent, uninteresting drivel.

I don't mind an occasional bit of swearing in high moments of stress.  I don't say anything stronger than darn it, but I have been known to let loose a stronger form of anger and when I do my family takes notice and duck for cover.  

I have a problem when it's used constantly.  Someone cusses all the time and I no longer listen.  

Agreed. Gratuitous swearing is tedious and irritating. A carefully chosen and well-delivered curse at a moment of high stress can, however, increase the impact of said moment. I don't swear much really. I do, however, have a very stressful life 

[Mr. Man]

Harbinger963 wrote...

-I don't want ridiculously poor quality items being fed to me late in the game when it doesn't matter and I can't do anything with them anymore. Just give currency if that is the case, it will make the whole process shorter.
-I don't want to see boring combat sequences where your PC waddles up to an enemy and begins to simply take turns hacking at each other, combat is about action, and just remember one thing about tactics and plans "No plan survives contact with the enemy" - Carl Von Clausewitz
-I don't want conversation and in game choices to be clear cut on good or bad. I believe that you should be forced to make those hard choices. This is what makes BioWare games so much fun compared to games like C&C, DoW, or TQIT which are all linear.
-I don't want this game to feel rushed. Most game put together in a hurry are usually of poor quality and are just frustrating in the end. I would rather wait for a awesome game then get an alright game.

-As for somethings that I would like seeing, one would be hard situations with no clear way out. Sometimes life just isn't fare, you make your choices and live with the outcome you get or don't as some cases maybe, be it good or bad.
-I would like to keep some kind of inventory for DA. I can see why it was changed for ME2, due to magic items being non-existent and you already having some good gear, your just finding upgrades for that gear. But fantasy possesses this magic and long lost powerful magical items are always fun to find.
-I would like to play multi-class. If I was a magic user, I would certainly not leave myself with magic as my only weapon, however powerful it is. Plus the Destiny Trailer, had Hawke throwing magic around as well as intense fighting skills. So I will keep my hopes up.

Agreed with everyting you say. I can't stand it when I check all the chests on my way up Fort Drakon to fight the Archdemen, and all I find is 'darkspawn dagger, or some Ash bow.

[RPGmom28]

mopotter wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...


I'd also like to seem them break away from the more minor "BioWare tropes", so to speak. DA:O and ME2 did a good job at deviating from the formula of KotOR and Jade Empire, I'd also like that to extend to some others that tend to pop up a lot, such as whiny male leads (I'm lookin' at you, Carth and Kaidan). I am excited to see how the framed narrative changes things up as well.

Personal preference.  Carth and Kaidan are not whiny.  I'll take a Carth, Kaidan or older Alistair any day over some obnoxious twit who thinks he's gods gift as a LI.     Actually I've liked most of the LI BioWare comes up with.  

Same here.  The only one I didn't like was Anomen, and that was a LONG time ago.