296 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

Frybread76 wrote...

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

They have EDI because Cerberus was smart enough to research reaper tech.

[Clover Rider]

Shandepared wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
I was just talking about ME3 you will not need the base to win the war;).

Then why are you bothering to argue with me? 

Oh I get it, you think that I think we will lose the game if we don't keep the base.

No, I'm not a moron. Bioware won't do that. However Commander Shepard doesn't know he is the protagonist in a video game. He doesn't know that victory against the Reapers is assured. It makes more sense then to keep the Collector base.

These debates require a little bit of roleplaying otherwise they are pointless.

If you don't understand that then stay out.

I don't think you need to roleplay to talk about Mass Effect:?.

[Frybread76]

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

They have EDI because Cerberus was smart enough to research reaper tech.

And, like I said, EDI is something no other ship has, because of how scared ME people are of AI, not to mention it is illegal.

The Reaper IFF, the derelict Reaper and even EDI show just how dangerous Reaper tech is and why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.

Actually, I think it will be interesting to see how ME3 turns out for people who give the Collector base to TIM.

[Clover Rider]

Shandepared wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

I don't think you need to roleplay to talk about Mass Effect:?.

You do need to have a meaningful debate free of meta-gaming.

Complicated concept for you, I sympathize, I suppose.

If you work at it you might get it though.

And you don't have to be a jerk:innocent:.

[mosor]

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

They have EDI because Cerberus was smart enough to research reaper tech.

And, like I said, EDI is something no other ship has, because of how scared ME people are of AI, not to mention it is illegal.

The Reaper IFF, the derelict Reaper and even EDI show just how dangerous Reaper tech is and why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.

Actually, I think it will be interesting to see how ME3 turns out for people who give the Collector base to TIM.

I don't understand your point. The only thing this shows is  that without EDI, and the IFF, you would have failed in your mission to stop the collectors. If paragons got to that tech first, kiss millions of humans goodbye.

[Dean_the_Young]

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet every attempt to study Reaper Tech not left behind intentionally by the Reapers has almost always had ill effects. Saren is just a primarly case... .

The collector base wasn't meant to be controlled nor found by non-reaper agents. Regarding Saren, he didn't know exactly what he was dealing with until he was already indoctrinated.

As for Saren, being his human counterpart is hillariously awesome.

Yet the Cerberus science team still went insane despite knowing they were aboard a 37-million-year-old Reaper.

Yet they also accomplished their mission by locating that little IFF in that vast hulk of a ship we know absolutely nothing about. That IFF was the key to stopping the collectors. That's a small sacrifice to save hundreds of thousands of humans. I probably would have joined that science team, even if I was fully aware of my ultimate fate.

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

Not only that, but one made from Reaper tech!

[Spectre_907]

Shandepared wrote...

Spectre_907 wrote...
But
one can reason that it is better to take out the defending geth ships
around the Ascension first and then go after Sovereign. We still had
control of the station and all geth/krogan were eliminated.

You could but the narrative implies that letting the Council die is the superior tactical decision.

True. Shepard just says, "Save the Ascension at all costs." A paragon who was concerned about the state of the fleet would've said something like, "Concentrate on the defending geth ships around the Ascension before I open the Citadel arms."

The Codex and al-Jilani's interview only states that there were only eight cruisers lost if the Ascension was saved. If the Ascension is lost there is nothing indicating losses. But surely there were losses. We even see geth ships surrounding Sovereign in both cases.

Regardless of the narrative, I think saving the Ascension was strategically better in order to attack Sovereign rather than going for a decapitating blow so I saved it. I don't like the idea of having my fleet fighting Sovereign and the geth simultaneously. I would also like to have the Ascension there to help coordinate with the defending turian cruisers against any geth going after my ships.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 08 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Inverness Moon]

Frybread76 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

His Ruthlessness and tampering with Reaper Technology was what lead to his descent into Indoctrination.

His ruthlessness had nothing to do with that. He was just being practical. We need to study Reaper tech (to "tamper" with it) if we want to defeat them.

Says who?  The Geth don't believe so, and the writers don't as well since all of the Cerberus scientists who studied Reaper tech were indoctrinated or went insane.

Didn't Legion visit the derelict reaper for the express purpose of studying the reaper-provided data storage device that contained the virus? Legion studied reaper technology in order to turn it against the heretics.

But more to the point, what the geth want us to do is not blind ourselves to alternative paths of evolution by studying reaper technology.

Some Geth wrote...

And you don't have to be a jerk:innocent:.

Shand is a jerk to almost everybody since common sense isn't so common, don't take it personally.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 08 octobre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Frybread76]

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

They have EDI because Cerberus was smart enough to research reaper tech.

And, like I said, EDI is something no other ship has, because of how scared ME people are of AI, not to mention it is illegal.

The Reaper IFF, the derelict Reaper and even EDI show just how dangerous Reaper tech is and why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.

Actually, I think it will be interesting to see how ME3 turns out for people who give the Collector base to TIM.

I don't understand your point. The only thing this shows is  that without EDI, and the IFF, you would have failed in your mission to stop the collectors. If paragons got to that tech first, kiss millions of humans goodbye.

My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.

[Inverness Moon]

Frybread76 wrote...

My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.

I think you're forgetting the part where EDI herself is reaper technology. You're contradicting yourself.

[MrnDvlDg161]

This whole " Ha! Paragons suck --- Renegades rule" argument is something simular to fan boys fighting about whose game system is better.



Geez.. if you think a Renegade is the cure all to the problems of the galaxy --- go for it. What do you want a cookie? This loose talk about " I would do anything too.." Right. Well until your actully in that hot seat, I would not be so bold to suggest what you would do --- to say otherwise is just putting up a front ( thats IRL).



In this case... who cares. If your decisions don't work. Reload. Play again and thus your result will suit your fancy.

[Frybread76]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

His Ruthlessness and tampering with Reaper Technology was what lead to his descent into Indoctrination.

His ruthlessness had nothing to do with that. He was just being practical. We need to study Reaper tech (to "tamper" with it) if we want to defeat them.

Says who?  The Geth don't believe so, and the writers don't as well since all of the Cerberus scientists who studied Reaper tech were indoctrinated or went insane.

Didn't Legion visit the derelict reaper for the express purpose of studying the reaper-provided data storage device that contained the virus? Legion studied reaper technology in order to turn it against the heretics.

But more to the point, what the geth want us to do is not blind ourselves to alternative paths of evolution by studying reaper technology.

Some Geth wrote...

And you don't have to be a jerk:innocent:.

Shand is a jerk to almost everybody since common sense isn't so common, don't take it personally.

How was I rude?  You're a little overly sensitive.

[mosor]

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

They have EDI because Cerberus was smart enough to research reaper tech.

And, like I said, EDI is something no other ship has, because of how scared ME people are of AI, not to mention it is illegal.

The Reaper IFF, the derelict Reaper and even EDI show just how dangerous Reaper tech is and why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.

Actually, I think it will be interesting to see how ME3 turns out for people who give the Collector base to TIM.

I don't understand your point. The only thing this shows is  that without EDI, and the IFF, you would have failed in your mission to stop the collectors. If paragons got to that tech first, kiss millions of humans goodbye.

My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.

Reaper IFF necessary "Evil"
EDI necessary "Evil"
Thannix Cannon, not so necessary "evil" but it saves some squaddies from death
Collector Base necessary "Evil"?

Why are the first 2 necessary reaper tech but not the last one?

[Inverness Moon]

Frybread76 wrote...

How was I rude?  You're a little overly sensitive.

I think you need to reread my post. 

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

This whole " Ha! Paragons suck --- Renegades rule" argument is something simular to fan boys fighting about whose game system is better.

What argument are you talking about?

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 08 octobre 2010 - 01:51 .

[Frybread76]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.

I think you're forgetting the part where EDI herself is reaper technology. You're contradicting yourself.

So we need Reaper tech to counter Reaper tech, but Reaper tech is not dangerous?

[Inverness Moon]

Frybread76 wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.

I think you're forgetting the part where EDI herself is reaper technology. You're contradicting yourself.

So we need Reaper tech to counter Reaper tech, but Reaper tech is not dangerous?

I never suggested reaper tech was not dangerous.

But, I disagree that the Collector base is too dangerous.

Edit: We already have a thread for arguing about the collector base, lets not turn this into another one.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 08 octobre 2010 - 01:54 .

[Clover Rider]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

His Ruthlessness and tampering with Reaper Technology was what lead to his descent into Indoctrination.

His ruthlessness had nothing to do with that. He was just being practical. We need to study Reaper tech (to "tamper" with it) if we want to defeat them.

Says who?  The Geth don't believe so, and the writers don't as well since all of the Cerberus scientists who studied Reaper tech were indoctrinated or went insane.

Didn't Legion visit the derelict reaper for the express purpose of studying the reaper-provided data storage device that contained the virus? Legion studied reaper technology in order to turn it against the heretics.

But more to the point, what the geth want us to do is not blind ourselves to alternative paths of evolution by studying reaper technology.

Some Geth wrote...

And you don't have to be a jerk:innocent:.

Shand is a jerk to almost everybody since common sense isn't so common, don't take it personally.

Thanks my good Geth=].

[Frybread76]

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

And Shepard and Co. installed that IFF and almost brought destruction down upon their ship if it wasn't for an EDI, an illegal AI that Alliance and Citadel ships do not have.

They have EDI because Cerberus was smart enough to research reaper tech.

And, like I said, EDI is something no other ship has, because of how scared ME people are of AI, not to mention it is illegal.

The Reaper IFF, the derelict Reaper and even EDI show just how dangerous Reaper tech is and why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.

Actually, I think it will be interesting to see how ME3 turns out for people who give the Collector base to TIM.

I don't understand your point. The only thing this shows is  that without EDI, and the IFF, you would have failed in your mission to stop the collectors. If paragons got to that tech first, kiss millions of humans goodbye.

My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.

Reaper IFF necessary "Evil"
EDI necessary "Evil"
Thannix Cannon, not so necessary "evil" but it saves some squaddies from death
Collector Base necessary "Evil"?

Why are the first 2 necessary reaper tech but not the last one?

To get the true answer you would need to ask the writers.  But you don't need to do any of the upgrades to complete the game.  You don't need the thanix cannon.  You do need the Reaper IFF but that is a plot device.  So you are wrong when you say the thanix cannon is neccessary.

[MrnDvlDg161]

True enough --- discussing it in detail would be like Monday morning quarterbacking --- which by the way, it seems that the galactic politicians did later because they felt the humans dissed them --- if you did choose that path.



Unfortunately, the more you play the game and the more you start reaching for other resources, the more you start quoting things from the books, background stories that were never part of the game and then trying to produce something too technical that never existed in your tool box as you were playing the game.



I think some individuals are confusing the two --- neither is being supported by the other.

[Inverness Moon]

Frybread76 wrote...

To get the true answer you would need to ask the writers.  But you don't need to do any of the upgrades to complete the game.  You don't need the thanix cannon.  You do need the Reaper IFF but that is a plot device.  So you are wrong when you say the thanix cannon is neccessary.

From an in-character perspective, there is no true answer. And even if BioWare claims one thing, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the true answer. The paragon path is the choice BioWare seems to prefer, but it doesn't make it the right one or even the logical one.

[mosor]

Frybread76 wrote...

To get the true answer you would need to ask the writers.  But you don't need to do any of the upgrades to complete the game.  You don't need the thanix cannon.  You do need the Reaper IFF but that is a plot device.  So you are wrong when you say the thanix cannon is neccessary.

Jesus, you're seeing what you want to see and not even taking the time to read what I wrote. Please point to where I wrote the Thannix Cannon is necessary? I also think it's disengenous to say that Shepard's experience with reaper tech is negative, but when I point some reaper tech that are not only necessary but positives as well and you dismiss it as a plot device. Hello, they're all plot devices.

Modifié par mosor, 08 octobre 2010 - 02:04 .

[Frybread76]

[quote]mosor wrote...

[quote]Frybread76 wrote...


My point is the Reaper tech is too dangerous and that is why a Paragon Shepard destroys the Collector base.  The Reaper IFF was a neccessary evil, but if it wasn't for EDI, which no other ship has because AI is illegal, Shepard and Co. would have been abducted and destroyed by the Collectors.[/quote]


[/quote]

To get the true answer you would need to ask the writers.  But you don't need to do any of the upgrades to complete the game.  You don't need the thanix cannon.  You do need the Reaper IFF but that is a plot device.  So you are wrong when you say the thanix cannon is neccessary.[/quote]

Jesus, you're seeing what you want to see and not even taking the time to read what I wrote. Please point to where I wrote the Thannix Cannon is necessary? I also think it's disengenous to say that Shepard's experience with reaper tech is negative, but when I point some reaper tech that are not only necessary but positives as well and you dismiss it as a plot device. Hello, they're all plot devices.

[/quote]

Sorry about the thanix cannon mistake on my part.

I am correct that you don't need the thanix cannon to complete the game, since only Thane (I think) dies if you don't have that upgrade.

As far as Shepard himself?  No, he has not had any negative impact by Reaper tech, but he isn't a researcher who has spent days or weeks or years examing and tinkers with Reaper tech.  It seems like anyone else who studies it ends up going insane or gets indoctrinated.

And the Reaper IFF is a plot device, since you have no choice but to install it to advance in the game, unlike the thanix cannon or any of the other upgrades.

EDI is a neccessary evil, insofar as she is needed to clean up the mess from installing the Reaper IFF, which is a plot device.