530 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

I'd like to see a system that takes into account both weight and volume. It's been a long time since I played the Witcher but I'm thinking that mixed with Fallout 3 (including items suffering wear and tear, the ability to combine like items to improve condition) would be pretty cool.

The system would work on a per-character basis, so you determine specifically which each toon is carrying. Like, "Oh, I need to bring Sten he has the shovel." That kind of thing. Or remember to get the shovel from Sten... etc.

Edit: Sure, combining items is an abstraction but it could mimic blacksmithing, tailoring, etc.  Throw in consumables like "scrap iron" and "strips of leather" that can repair things and a system starts to fall into place.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:56 .

[hangmans tree]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

SirOccam, there is a difference between your proposal and the ones others have given in this thread. You proposal is only intended to nerf the game. It does not add anything to the game and it does not try to solve problems that your proposed changes would cause. And all that because it would remove your annoyance of clicking some bodies. When I point out that your proposal would negatively impact my gameplay then all I get from you are rationalizations. Other proposals in this thread may be radical, but at least they are constructive and creative in trying to improve looting, the inventory, trading or a combination of those. If you want to play more word games, then go ahead. Don't be surprised when I don't reply, though.

You still don't get the point of Occam's reasoning. How you manage to miss or misinterpret, ignore even, the explanation he's given is something of a marvel.
One question: do you really don't see the point of his posts or do you do this on pourpose, whatever it may be?

[AngryFrozenWater]

hangmans tree wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

SirOccam, there is a difference between your proposal and the ones others have given in this thread. You proposal is only intended to nerf the game. It does not add anything to the game and it does not try to solve problems that your proposed changes would cause. And all that because it would remove your annoyance of clicking some bodies. When I point out that your proposal would negatively impact my gameplay then all I get from you are rationalizations. Other proposals in this thread may be radical, but at least they are constructive and creative in trying to improve looting, the inventory, trading or a combination of those. If you want to play more word games, then go ahead. Don't be surprised when I don't reply, though.

You still don't get the point of Occam's reasoning. How you manage to miss or misinterpret, ignore even, the explanation he's given is something of a marvel.
One question: do you really don't see the point of his posts or do you do this on pourpose, whatever it may be?

Do not assume that I am against his proposal just because I like to argue against it. I thought you were smarter than that. Or may be I give you the wrong impression. Frankly I don't care what people think of me. I am doing the best I can and try to be honest. That's all I can do. As I said, his proposal is not constructive. It would negatively impact the way I play for reasons mentioned earlier. You might not agree, but that's OK with me. Sorry. But that is how I feel about it. Thanks for your reponse, though.

[hangmans tree]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

SirOccam, there is a difference between your proposal and the ones others have given in this thread. You proposal is only intended to nerf the game. It does not add anything to the game and it does not try to solve problems that your proposed changes would cause. And all that because it would remove your annoyance of clicking some bodies. When I point out that your proposal would negatively impact my gameplay then all I get from you are rationalizations. Other proposals in this thread may be radical, but at least they are constructive and creative in trying to improve looting, the inventory, trading or a combination of those. If you want to play more word games, then go ahead. Don't be surprised when I don't reply, though.

You still don't get the point of Occam's reasoning. How you manage to miss or misinterpret, ignore even, the explanation he's given is something of a marvel.
One question: do you really don't see the point of his posts or do you do this on pourpose, whatever it may be?

Do not assume that I am against his proposal just because I like to argue against it. I thought you were smarter than that. Or may be I give you the wrong impression. Frankly I don't care what people think of me. I am doing the best I can and try to be honest. That's all I can do. As I said, his proposal is not constructive. It would negatively impact the way I play for reasons mentioned earlier. You might not agree, but that's OK with me. Sorry. But that is how I feel about it. Thanks for your reponse, though.

What I ment by  colouring the sentences - these are your assumptions that go against what Occam said. by writing what you wrote here to me it seems you do not grasp the thing he's trying to put foeard for you. What you wrote there are just grammar mistakes to his clauses. He's not about nerfing the game (well, if you'll stick to this, inacurate in some way, example of 20 it may look like it), he's not about removing as much as substituting or adding functionality to the looting system. And he's argument was never about annoyance by (too much) clicking on the bodies.
Thanks for assuming I was smart but I proved you wrong didn't I? Well, I win then

[AngryFrozenWater]

Look. hangmans... I have said all there is to it. I have explained in detail how it would negatively impact my gameplay. It's fine that people don't agree, but that does not change the fact that the proposal would still negatively impact my gameplay. Come up with a solution and we are in business.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Talking about proposals... I assume you didn't like mine? Hehe.

[hangmans tree]

You proposed to me? When did that happen?!

[AllThatJazz]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Look. hangmans... I have said all there is to it. I have explained in detail how it would negatively impact my gameplay. It's fine that people don't agree, but that does not change the fact that the proposal would still negatively impact my gameplay. Come up with a solution and we are in business.

I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

[upsettingshorts]

AllThatJazz wrote...
I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

Don't the Bioware folks say something along the lines of "every time someone on the forums asks for a toggle a Bioware dev designs a stupid looking sword kicks a puppy?"

[Lotion Soronarr]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
As I said, his proposal is not constructive. It would negatively impact the way I play for reasons mentioned earlier. You might not agree, but that's OK with me. Sorry. But that is how I feel about it. Thanks for your reponse, though.

How does that make his proposal "not constructive"? You liking it has no bearing on it's constructiveness. No system will ever make everyone happy.

[AllThatJazz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

Don't the Bioware folks say something along the lines of "every time someone on the forums asks for a toggle a Bioware dev designs a stupid looking sword kicks a puppy?"

Oh, well that explains it. Pah, puppies! I'm more of a cat person ... 

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 12 octobre 2010 - 08:58 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
As I said, his proposal is not constructive. It would negatively impact the way I play for reasons mentioned earlier. You might not agree, but that's OK with me. Sorry. But that is how I feel about it. Thanks for your reponse, though.

How does that make his proposal "not constructive"? You liking it has no bearing on it's constructiveness. No system will ever make everyone happy.

Why should I give up existing gameplay that I like and praise BW for just because SirOccam is not liking something?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:02 .

[upsettingshorts]

AllThatJazz wrote...
I'm more of a cat person ... 

Upsettingshorts disapproves - 20

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Why should I give up existing gameplay that I like and praise BW for just because SirOccam is not liking something?

Not to butt in, but that's not what the discussion appears to be about.  Neither of you is in a position to change anything.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:08 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

AllThatJazz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Look. hangmans... I have said all there is to it. I have explained in detail how it would negatively impact my gameplay. It's fine that people don't agree, but that does not change the fact that the proposal would still negatively impact my gameplay. Come up with a solution and we are in business.

I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

Didn't you come up with the auto loot collector and the automatic merchant? I liked that idea. As long as it can be toggled off.

hangmans tree wrote...

You proposed to me? When did that happen?!

No. no. no. The weird scene with the spanish guitar and the false song was intended for AllThatJazz. Too bad her husband kicked my teeth in.

I mean this proposal:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

As far as inventories go, Fallout 3 and The Witcher (enhanced edition) are my favorite.

I haven't finished DA yet, but so far I like the inventory. You have to pick what is important and jettison the rest.

I played DA a lot. The inventory itself is OK. It would be nice to have more categories, like: Potions and herbalism, poisons and poison making, bows and arrows, etc., in addition to the current ones. Not all of those are helpfull for all players, but it would help those with certain specializations and would "hide" them from others who think these items are junk. It would also allow you to get rid of them more easily. Maybe an option to tag each item you don't want and "Tagg all", "Sell tagged items" or "Drop tagged items" buttons to get rid of them at once without those little windows that ask you how many to handle?

Edit: Thinking about it some more: A list in a category like "potions and herbalism" could be subdivided vertically by adding separators to allow potions, ingredients and recipes to be grouped. Something like that?

Edit 2: The buttons and tagging would be in addition to what we already have, so you could still use the old interface features like before.

And before you protest, hangmans... No, it has nothing to do with anything SirOccam proposed. It's just a way to organize the inventory and jettison stuff you don't need.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:22 .

[hangmans tree]

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I played DA a lot. The inventory itself is OK. It would be nice to have more categories, like: Potions and herbalism, poisons and poison making, bows and arrows, etc., in addition to the current ones. Not all of those are helpfull for all players, but it would help those with certain specializations and would "hide" them from others who think these items are junk. It would also allow you to get rid of them more easily. Maybe an option to tag each item you don't want and "Tagg all", "Sell tagged items" or "Drop tagged items" buttons to get rid of them at once without those little windows that ask you how many to handle?

Edit: Thinking about it some more: A list in a category like "potions and herbalism" could be subdivided vertically by adding separators to allow potions, ingredients and recipes to be grouped. Something like that?

Edit 2: The buttons and tagging would be in addition to what we already have, so you could still use the old interface features like before.[/quote]
And before you protest, hangmans... No, it has nothing to do with anything SirOccam proposed. It's just a way to organize the inventory and jettison stuff you don't need.

[/quote]I noticed.
Your proposal is reasonable, I wouldnt mind it.
My beef is still with the amount of things that you pick up to sell to earn money - no alternative to that.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
I'm more of a cat person ... 

Upsettingshorts disapproves - 20

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Why should I give up existing gameplay that I like and praise BW for just because SirOccam is not liking something?

Not to butt in, but that's not what the discussion appears to be about.  Neither of you is in a position to change anything.

That's true. However, BW appears to be listening to its fan base. Most of this stuff will never make it. Other stuff might. Does that answer your question or didn't I understand you?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:32 .

[AllThatJazz]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Look. hangmans... I have said all there is to it. I have explained in detail how it would negatively impact my gameplay. It's fine that people don't agree, but that does not change the fact that the proposal would still negatively impact my gameplay. Come up with a solution and we are in business.

I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

Didn't you come up with the auto loot collector and the automatic merchant? I liked that idea.

hangmans tree wrote...

You proposed to me? When did that happen?!

No. no. no. The weird scene with the spanish guitar and the false song was intended for AllThatJazz. Too bad her husband kicked my teeth in.

I mean this proposal:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

As far as inventories go, Fallout 3 and The Witcher (enhanced edition) are my favorite.

I haven't finished DA yet, but so far I like the inventory. You have to pick what is important and jettison the rest.

I played DA a lot. The inventory itself is OK. It would be nice to have more categories, like: Potions and herbalism, poisons and poison making, bows and arrows, etc., in addition to the current ones. Not all of those are helpfull for all players, but it would help those with certain specializations and would "hide" them from others who think these items are junk. It would also allow you to get rid of them more easily. Maybe an option to tag each item you don't want and "Tagg all", "Sell tagged items" or "Drop tagged items" buttons to get rid of them at once without those little windows that ask you how many to handle?

Edit: Thinking about it some more: A list in a category like "potions and herbalism" could be subdivided vertically by adding separators to allow potions, ingredients and recipes to be grouped. Something like that?

Edit 2: The buttons and tagging would be in addition to what we already have, so you could still use the old interface features like before.

And before you protest, hangmans... No, it has nothing to do with anything SirOccam proposed. It's just a way to organize the inventory and jettison stuff you don't need.

Okay, first of all  

Poor Angry, how is your face feeling?

Second, yes! Sometimes toggles are a good thing! (Auto loot was FieryDove's idea, auto merchant was mine). 

I think your idea is a really good one, AFW, allowing people to select the things they want to loot based on criteria such as value/type of item. That way, those of us who enjoy such things can rifle through corpses to our deviant hearts' content, while those who do not can have the best/most valuable/most useful stuff selected for them.

The problem with some other loot systems suggested is that they kind of swap like for like. The current system negatively impacts the gaming experience for some. That's a shame. Changing it to something which lessens/diminishes/whatever word is more appropriate the amount of loot available or the method of looting, would negatively impact the game for others. which would also be a shame. So nothing is really changing except that a different group of people is a bit pissed off. Any real solution has to be one that accommodates multiple playstyles. Which is why, puppy-kicking or bad sword design aside, my vote remains for toggles. Yes sir.  

[AngryFrozenWater]

hangmans tree wrote...

Your proposal is reasonable, I wouldnt mind it.
My beef is still with the amount of things that you pick up to sell to earn money - no alternative to that.

Remember what I said about loot? You can only earn about 350 gold by looting prior to the Landsmeet. And you can earn more than 1000 gold by doing quests prior to the Landsmeet. So, if you don't loot anything then you still have 1000 gold to look forward to. Not looting is not a solution, but it just indicates that, no matter what people believe on this forum, looting is not your primary income. The importance of looting is overrated. You can do without. That's all I am saying.

Source: Money Making Guide

[Lotion Soronarr]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
How does that make his proposal "not constructive"? You liking it has no bearing on it's constructiveness. No system will ever make everyone happy.

Why should I give up existing gameplay that I like and praise BW for just because SirOccam is not liking something?

You shouldn't. But that doesn't make his proposal non-constructive.

There are pack-rats who like looting. There are people who hate it. And there there are those in between.

I personally consider myself in the middle. I played all Bio games, some a dozen times. I played games with no inventory.
But I am slowly getting tired of dumb looting...looting that really adds nothing. The MMO kind, together with it's soulless gameplay. Loot, level, balance escalation and progression who looks like it's there just because...

Let's face it - the inventory/loot system DA:O used was seen a zillion times before. Some change would be nice. There's a zillion RPG games for pack rats out there.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:59 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

AllThatJazz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Look. hangmans... I have said all there is to it. I have explained in detail how it would negatively impact my gameplay. It's fine that people don't agree, but that does not change the fact that the proposal would still negatively impact my gameplay. Come up with a solution and we are in business.

I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

Didn't you come up with the auto loot collector and the automatic merchant? I liked that idea. As long as it can be toggled off.

hangmans tree wrote...

You proposed to me? When did that happen?!

No. no. no. The weird scene with the spanish guitar and the false song was intended for AllThatJazz. Too bad her husband kicked my teeth in.

I mean this proposal:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

As far as inventories go, Fallout 3 and The Witcher (enhanced edition) are my favorite.

I haven't finished DA yet, but so far I like the inventory. You have to pick what is important and jettison the rest.

I played DA a lot. The inventory itself is OK. It would be nice to have more categories, like: Potions and herbalism, poisons and poison making, bows and arrows, etc., in addition to the current ones. Not all of those are helpfull for all players, but it would help those with certain specializations and would "hide" them from others who think these items are junk. It would also allow you to get rid of them more easily. Maybe an option to tag each item you don't want and "Tagg all", "Sell tagged items" or "Drop tagged items" buttons to get rid of them at once without those little windows that ask you how many to handle?

Edit: Thinking about it some more: A list in a category like "potions and herbalism" could be subdivided vertically by adding separators to allow potions, ingredients and recipes to be grouped. Something like that?

Edit 2: The buttons and tagging would be in addition to what we already have, so you could still use the old interface features like before.

And before you protest, hangmans... No, it has nothing to do with anything SirOccam proposed. It's just a way to organize the inventory and jettison stuff you don't need.

Okay, first of all {smilie}

Poor Angry, how is your face feeling?

Second, yes! Sometimes toggles are a good thing! (Auto loot was FieryDove's idea, auto merchant was mine).

I think your idea is a really good one, AFW, allowing people to select the things they want to loot based on criteria such as value/type of item. That way, those of us who enjoy such things can rifle through corpses to our deviant hearts' content, while those who do not can have the best/most valuable/most useful stuff selected for them.

The problem with some other loot systems suggested is that they kind of swap like for like. The current system negatively impacts the gaming experience for some. That's a shame. Changing it to something which lessens/diminishes/whatever word is more appropriate the amount of loot available or the method of looting, would negatively impact the game for others. which would also be a shame. So nothing is really changing except that a different group of people is a bit pissed off. Any real solution has to be one that accommodates multiple playstyles. Which is why, puppy-kicking or bad sword design aside, my vote remains for toggles. Yes sir. 

First... Your husband has a mean upper cut. Doctors tell me that I am making a surprisingly quick recovery. I only need fluid food for the next 6 months.

The auto thingies are cool. As long as they can be toggled off. I've added that to my post and edited it here back in in bold.

So, in addition to that tagging system (which was meant for selling and dropping stuff), you want to have something like the auto-combat rules, but this time it covers what to loot? That would be cool. Or did you mean that the tags would be permanent and sold automatigically? Which is not a bad idea either.

[hangmans tree]

AllThatJazz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Look. hangmans... I have said all there is to it. I have explained in detail how it would negatively impact my gameplay. It's fine that people don't agree, but that does not change the fact that the proposal would still negatively impact my gameplay. Come up with a solution and we are in business.

I still like the toggles idea! Why no toggle-love??

Didn't you come up with the auto loot collector and the automatic merchant? I liked that idea.

hangmans tree wrote...

You proposed to me? When did that happen?!

No. no. no. The weird scene with the spanish guitar and the false song was intended for AllThatJazz. Too bad her husband kicked my teeth in.

I mean this proposal:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

As far as inventories go, Fallout 3 and The Witcher (enhanced edition) are my favorite.

I haven't finished DA yet, but so far I like the inventory. You have to pick what is important and jettison the rest.

I played DA a lot. The inventory itself is OK. It would be nice to have more categories, like: Potions and herbalism, poisons and poison making, bows and arrows, etc., in addition to the current ones. Not all of those are helpfull for all players, but it would help those with certain specializations and would "hide" them from others who think these items are junk. It would also allow you to get rid of them more easily. Maybe an option to tag each item you don't want and "Tagg all", "Sell tagged items" or "Drop tagged items" buttons to get rid of them at once without those little windows that ask you how many to handle?

Edit: Thinking about it some more: A list in a category like "potions and herbalism" could be subdivided vertically by adding separators to allow potions, ingredients and recipes to be grouped. Something like that?

Edit 2: The buttons and tagging would be in addition to what we already have, so you could still use the old interface features like before.

And before you protest, hangmans... No, it has nothing to do with anything SirOccam proposed. It's just a way to organize the inventory and jettison stuff you don't need.

Okay, first of all  

Poor Angry, how is your face feeling?

Second, yes! Sometimes toggles are a good thing! (Auto loot was FieryDove's idea, auto merchant was mine). 

I think your idea is a really good one, AFW, allowing people to select the things they want to loot based on criteria such as value/type of item. That way, those of us who enjoy such things can rifle through corpses to our deviant hearts' content, while those who do not can have the best/most valuable/most useful stuff selected for them.

The problem with some other loot systems suggested is that they kind of swap like for like. The current system negatively impacts the gaming experience for some. That's a shame. Changing it to something which lessens/diminishes/whatever word is more appropriate the amount of loot available or the method of looting, would negatively impact the game for others. which would also be a shame. So nothing is really changing except that a different group of people is a bit pissed off. Any real solution has to be one that accommodates multiple playstyles. Which is why, puppy-kicking or bad sword design aside, my vote remains for toggles. Yes sir.  

How about leaving your looting in the game but adding different source of income (jobs - mentioned by me and others) for those who find looting and selling-comparing boring? That is the proposal, more or less, from the beginning

[AllThatJazz]

AFW - Oops, see this is what happens when I try to multi-task too much (women are supposed to be good at this, dammit!) - I end up reading and writing carelessly:))

Well, either, really - though I was thinking more along the lines of having auto-loot toggles like the auto-combat rules. Specifically, I was remembering the pause rules in Baldurs' Gate, actually. Game would auto-pause when you sighted an enemy, or got attacked, or lost a certain number of hitpoints, or when a party member died, or whatnot. All or none of these could be toggled on. I'm no scripter, admittedly, but would it be that much more sophisticated to apply this to loot collection? If a 'manual' setting, it would reduce the amount of actual looting for those who hate it; if an 'auto' setting, it would stop your backpack from automatically filling up so quickly and forcing you to drop things.

Goes without saying, though, that I would also toggle this to 'off', as I like copious quantities of loot!

The idea of tagging stuff to sell and drop, I also like.x

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 12 octobre 2010 - 10:17 .

[upsettingshorts]

That poor, poor puppy...

Bioware is just kicking it around the office now.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 10:17 .

[hangmans tree]

About the money:

It is also possible to accumulate over 1,000Gold prior to the Landsmeet without making any Potent Lyrium Potions. This requires you to do all the available quests (including downloadable content), pass all the money-related coercion dialogues, steal from all out-of-combat NPCs and in-combat enemies, and sell all items to merchants, except for the items of your four party characters. If you don't want to worry about money and the tasks required for money, you can spend time producing Potent Lyrium Potions.

It clearly says the 1000 is all the money you can get by:

do all the available quests (including downloadable content), pass all the money-related coercion dialogues, steal from all out-of-combat NPCs and in-combat enemies, and sell all items to merchants, except for the items of your four party characters.

And that is taking some origin quests into account. please read Profitable quests and you'll see that there is little gold unless you do eeeeverything right - quest options despite your alignment, certain/specific party members and so on...

Modifié par hangmans tree, 12 octobre 2010 - 10:20 .

[hangmans tree]

Its about 240 gp plus 1-6 for each board job quest.