530 réponses à ce sujet

[AllThatJazz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't believe in "trash loot". What is junk for some is usable for others.

I wouldn't qualify stackable ingredients as trash loot.  Trash loot would be items like in say, Fallout 3 or Oblivion - where weight comes in to play - with a crap Value to Weight ratio.  Items that in effect exist only to be sold because they aren't good enough to equip, but aren't of significant value.  That's what I'd define as trash loot.

Even then, stuff like that can be useful. The rock-it launcher in F3 uses pretty much everything as ammo, and if you've got the FWE mod installed, anything from tin cans to scrap metal to abraxo can be used to repair your items. This is actually what I like about Bethesda's approach to loot, with a hardcore mod installed anyway (yay, New Vegas!) - you could theoretically pick up almost everything in the gameworld (which in itself kind of forces you to be selective) - whether it's useful depends on your character build. This applies to Origins to a certain extent - some people will be more interested in Elfroot and deep mushrooms than others, but it could be extended - a bow would degrade over time, but another item in the same material could repair it - that way there would be more non-monetary value applied to the stuff you find.

I actually don't know if I even like that idea for Origins myself , but it would be a way of making people stop seeing things as 'junk'.

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Personally I think a system that limited what the player and his/her party can carry by weight and volume would have the side-effect of also limiting the annoyances of trash loot.

If you simply couldn't carry that much it wouldn't matter how much useless garbage your foes dropped, you'd only be able to pick up what would actually be useful to you because you simply wouldn't have room for too much extra.

It would also feel natural and not at all like an abstract artificial restriction.

Or people start making multiple trips

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...
Or people start making multiple trips

There's not a whole lot I can think of that prevents that sort of packrat mentality from being possible.

[upsettingshorts]

AllThatJazz wrote...
Even then, stuff like that can be useful.

Fallout's method of dealing with the issue of junk - even vanilla - is the Repair skill, which I like.

Edit:  Anyway, I was just talking about a system I would prefer, not trying to claim that it would satisfy everyone.  I'm convinced that such things are impossible, anyway.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 octobre 2010 - 10:44 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Or people start making multiple trips

There's not a whole lot I can think of that prevents that sort of packrat mentality from being possible.

Here we go again. I could reply with: "Well, too bad you don't like looting. You won't be missed.". That's exactly what you are doing in reverse. It's the "packrat mentality" part that gave it away.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 13 octobre 2010 - 11:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Here we go again. I could reply with: "Well, too bad you don't like looting. You won't be missed.". That's exactly what you are doing in reverse. It's the "packrat mentality" part that gave it away.

I didn't mean to frame the packrat mentality in some kind of negative light, I just said there was no system I could think of that would prevent it.  Especially if return trips are involved in collecting loot.   Hence the packrat mentality is safe in any system that doesn't go so far to remove loot entirely.

Like I said though, I simply identified the weight+volume system as being one I'd prefer, not as some universal answer to the CRPG loot question.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 octobre 2010 - 11:07 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Here we go again. I could reply with: "Well, too bad you don't like looting. You won't be missed.". That's exactly what you are doing in reverse. It's the "packrat mentality" part that gave it away.

I didn't mean to frame the packrat mentality in some kind of negative light

Sure. Your "that sort of packrat mentality" was used used to praise it.

[DPB]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

To be honest, I've only seen it brought up recently, more so after ME/ME2's release, so take that for what its worth and with a grain of salt because I'm not saying thats the issue at all, it just appears to be to me because I don't think I ever once on the old Bioboards saw anyone complain about how BG/BG2 etc etc handled inventory or that there were "too many drops" over the course of the game.

That's because some of us think that DAO's inventory/loot system is terrible compared to BG. I'm not suggesting they adopt ME2's system, I'm suggesting they go back to BG1's. DAO does not use "CRPG systems that have worked fine for years", at least in terms of its inventory/loot. A limited list inventory is something that comes from console RPGs, and the tiered equipment from Diablo-style hack and slash games and MMOs.

Modifié par dbankier, 13 octobre 2010 - 11:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Sure. Your "that sort of packrat mentality" was used used to praise it.

No, it was used to describe it.  I imply no value judgements.  I really don't have a problem expressing strong opinions on the forum - if I meant to imply it was silly I would have no problem explicitly stating such.  

So your options are to relax and take my word for it, or continue to assume that I meant more than I said. 

Regardless, I'd prefer to move on.

dbankier wrote...
That's because some of us think that DAO's inventory/loot system is terrible compared to BG. I'm not suggesting they adopt ME2's system, I'm suggesting they go back to BG1's. DAO does not use "CRPG systems that have worked fine for years", at least in terms of its inventory/loot. A limited list inventory is something that comes from console RPGs, and the tiered equipment from Diablo-style hackand slash games and MMOs.

Yup, this.

Plus there's people who have been playing CRPGs for years who simply haven't been posting here for years.  But the only person I know for a fact qualifies for that label is me.  So, take that for what it's worth.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 octobre 2010 - 11:17 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Plus there's people who have been playing CRPGs for years who simply haven't been posting here for years.  But the only person I know for a fact qualifies for that label is me.  So, take that for what it's worth.

I have a person on my friendlist who was a BW fan for ages and was driven away by the lack of depth in game mechaniscs of the last two games and the recent aggression on the forums. You have to take my word for that too.

[upsettingshorts]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I have a person on my friendlist who was a BW fan for ages and was driven away by the lack of depth in game mechaniscs of the last two games and the recent aggression on the forums. You have to take my word for that too.

I can, though the hostility implied in your post is perplexing.  Why should my explanation of why I wasn't around years ago to say what I'm saying now such a bad thing?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I have a person on my friendlist who was a BW fan for ages and was driven away by the lack of depth in game mechaniscs of the last two games and the recent aggression on the forums. You have to take my word for that too.

I can, though the hostility implied in your post is perplexing.  Why should my explanation of why I wasn't around years ago to say what I'm saying now such a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing at all. Experience can go two ways. That's all I am saying.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In my language we have this expression: "Exaggerating is an art."

You can find magical items early in the game, but that does not mean you can equip these. Weapons and armor have a stat requirement and not all items are leveled.

GOD NO! Restricting items by escalating stat requirements or level is the WORST system EVER devised by man. It's a sin against humanity and whoever decided it was a good idea for DA:O should be punted out of a window.

If iron plate requires 16/20/30 (or whatever), then steel or dragonbone shouldn't require more. It should never escalate to the point that the more magical the item is, the more STR/DEX you need..or the higher level you need.
It's so utterly formulaic, artificial and sterile that it makes me retch.

[Lotion Soronarr]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Thats not what I'm saying at all. It just gets old listening to complaints about CPRG systems that have worked fine for years. Now all of a sudden are an issue because the new target demographic can't be bothered with them.

Rampart looting was never the real core or CRPG's..it got hideously distorted into what it is now.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't believe in "trash loot". What is junk for some is usable for others. You can remove ingredients (just as an example) from the loot, but that presents a new problem. What to do with those who are interested in herbalism and poison making? One of the ideas behind herbalism and poison making was that these would have the advantage of being able to create some of the stuff cheaper using ingredients. It's a tricky situation that cannot be solved by simply removing them from loot or the wilds. Reducing also presents problems of its own. Worth thinking about, but these skills should definitely not be nerfed or removed, because a couple of players don't want to have ingredients in their inventory. Telling players not to pick up ingredients, because they really aren't that valuable already seems to upset some players. For some others finding any loot (and the more the better) are little 1 second events, like in "crap - an elfroot" or "cool - an elfroot" and is something they enjoy.

Again, pointing to The Witcher - minimal looting, minimal inventory, herbalism and poitnion making with ingredients.

Potion ingredients make sense and they take little space in the backpack and weight little.
10 pikes and 5 sets of chainmail on the other hand...

[FieryDove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...


There's not a whole lot I can think of that prevents that sort of packrat mentality from being possible.

A packmule!

Spell that tranmutse to gold.

Genie merchant in a bottle!

Yes I like stuffs and am a packrat I admit it, however if I find even 1 more fluorspar/vellum etc...grrrr

[AllThatJazz]

FieryDove wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...


There's not a whole lot I can think of that prevents that sort of packrat mentality from being possible.

A packmule!

Spell that tranmutse to gold.

Genie merchant in a bottle!

Yes I like stuffs and am a packrat I admit it, however if I find even 1 more fluorspar/vellum etc...grrrr

FieryDove, I am pushing your idea of an auto-loot toggle as hard as I can - but UpsettingShorts keeps feeling sorry for some puppies being kicked somewhere. *Grumble* :happy:

[upsettingshorts]

FieryDove wrote...

Spell that tranmutse to gold.

Genie merchant in a bottle!

Star Trek Online actually kind of does that with "Replicators" you can "sell" loot into your ships replicator in exchange for energy credits even without finding a trading ship or heading back to port. 

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

FieryDove wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...


There's not a whole lot I can think of that prevents that sort of packrat mentality from being possible.

A packmule!

Spell that tranmutse to gold.

Genie merchant in a bottle!

Yes I like stuffs and am a packrat I admit it, however if I find even 1 more fluorspar/vellum etc...grrrr

Heh may as well rename the game Dungeon Siege.

[FieryDove]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Heh may as well rename the game Dungeon Siege.

Well the combat we've seen so far does look much like DS3's combat so...hehe

Genie in bottle merchant was from nwn...hotu. Fantastic x-pac. imho

AllThatJazz wrote...
FieryDove, I am pushing your idea of an auto-loot toggle as hard as I can - but UpsettingShorts keeps feeling sorry for some puppies being kicked somewhere. *Grumble*

Well about 29 more toggles have been requested in various threads so the Devs have few if any puppies left. sigh But thanks for fighting the good fight!

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Star Trek Online actually kind of does that with "Replicators" you can "sell" loot into your ships replicator in exchange for energy credits even without finding a trading ship or heading back to port. 

Hmm a good idea but a bit too modern...maybe a Nug that transmutes items to gold...or a goose that lays golden eggs if you feed it things...

[AllThatJazz]

FieryDove wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Heh may as well rename the game Dungeon Siege.

Well the combat we've seen so far does look much like DS3's combat so...hehe

Genie in bottle merchant was from nwn...hotu. Fantastic x-pac. imho

AllThatJazz wrote...
FieryDove, I am pushing your idea of an auto-loot toggle as hard as I can - but UpsettingShorts keeps feeling sorry for some puppies being kicked somewhere. *Grumble*

Well about 29 more toggles have been requested in various threads so the Devs have few if any puppies left. sigh But thanks for fighting the good fight!

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Star Trek Online actually kind of does that with "Replicators" you can "sell" loot into your ships replicator in exchange for energy credits even without finding a trading ship or heading back to port. 

Hmm a good idea but a bit too modern...maybe a Nug that transmutes items to gold...or a goose that lays golden eggs if you feed it things...

One vote for the nug.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

So what should we call a "rule" that has exceptions?

Incorrect.

A rule's scope needs to be defined to exclude those cases where it doesn't apply.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Strong Back Feat. +STR items. Bags of Holding. Gem/Arrow/potion containers.

You could carry a LOT. I lug a whole friggin armory with me in BG2 and ID2.

I said BG.  I know and like it far better than BG2, and BG was the specific example cited.

Yes, a game I wasn't talking about exhibits different characteristics.  I fail to see how that's relevant.

BG lacked containers.  BG gems didn't stack.  You could carry 16 things in addition to those you had equipped, and the only things that stacked were potions and ammo (max 20 ammo per stack).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Or people start making multiple trips

There's not a whole lot I can think of that prevents that sort of packrat mentality from being possible.

Decay.

As time passes, the loot you left behind gets collected by others.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I said BG.  I know and like it far better than BG2, and BG was the specific example cited.

Yes, a game I wasn't talking about exhibits different characteristics.  I fail to see how that's relevant.

BG lacked containers.  BG gems didn't stack.  You could carry 16 things in addition to those you had equipped, and the only things that stacked were potions and ammo (max 20 ammo per stack).

BG definately had better loot and inventory systems.
BG2 had a more diverse plot and better NPC's.

Overall, I think BG1 had a better atmosphere...with BG2's engine and NPC (and just a few more special items) it would have been DA BOMB.

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Decay.

As time passes, the loot you left behind gets collected by others.

Yeah, I brought that up in the original post (I think it's back a few pages now?).  But I neglected to notice the post I was responding to specifically said that he hated decay.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .