530 réponses à ce sujet

[AllThatJazz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I said BG.  I know and like it far better than BG2, and BG was the specific example cited.

Yes, a game I wasn't talking about exhibits different characteristics.  I fail to see how that's relevant.

BG lacked containers.  BG gems didn't stack.  You could carry 16 things in addition to those you had equipped, and the only things that stacked were potions and ammo (max 20 ammo per stack).

BG definately had better loot and inventory systems.
BG2 had a more diverse plot and better NPC's.

Overall, I think BG1 had a better atmosphere...with BG2's engine and NPC (and just a few more special items) it would have been DA BOMB.

I love BG, but its inventory bugged me a tiny bit, precisely because little stuff wouldn't stack. One bit of malachite taking up the same sized inventory square as a suit of plate? Thank god for mods.

Btw, Lotion, do you know there are mods available that effectively (almost, anyway) turn BG into BG2? BG2's interface, skills, classes, combat and thieving. There's also a mod that adds a ton of (mostly very well-written) companion banter, even romances, and I think Tutu or BGT also adds new items (if I'm wrong, then there are definitely mods that do). Whole new experience, imo. 

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

So what should we call a "rule" that has exceptions?

Incorrect.

A rule's scope needs to be defined to exclude those cases where it doesn't apply.

So it's still a rule, just not the sort of rule that you like.

Lotion, you really liked BG1 inventory better? With a letter taking up as much inventory space as a set of plate mail? Could you explain why?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Because I couldn't carry much.



Honestly, the BG inventory has it's flaws. I'd rather prefer something like the Witcher.



You have your main equipment, main weapon, secondary and spare, a pouch/bag for ingredients for potions and a backpack for a few small items...that's it.



No lugging 30 swords of 4 sets of full plate. Travel light.

[nightcobra]

as a preference i like it more when the inventory is a list instead of a grid, never was much for weight limits on inventory but i can get around that.

some people like it this way, some like it that way.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Because I couldn't carry much.

Honestly, the BG inventory has it's flaws. I'd rather prefer something like the Witcher.

You have your main equipment, main weapon, secondary and spare, a pouch/bag for ingredients for potions and a backpack for a few small items...that's it.

No lugging 30 swords of 4 sets of full plate. Travel light.

Yes. No more hoarding.

There will still be gold and loot from the dead, like in BG(normal armor, normal weapons) which you can replace with your current equipment if you choose to. Say, you're equipped with a sword but prefer using the axe of the enemy you just killed. Only bosses will drop unique items but that will be rare. Merchants will buy ingredients or gems you collected from your travels, they won't be selling you powerful items like Spellfury, Velvet dagger(or whatever that dagger is called), etc. Gold will only be used for crafting. Someone like Wade can craft you a powerful item from rare materials you collected but you will be charged for it.

Modifié par The Hardest Thing In The World, 14 octobre 2010 - 09:09 .

[Sir JK]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...
Yes. No more hoarding.

There will still be gold and loot from the dead, like in BG(normal armor, normal weapons) which you can replace with your current equipment if you choose to. Say, you're equipped with a sword but prefer using the axe of the enemy you just killed. Only bosses will drop unique items but that will be rare. Merchants will buy ingredients or gems you collected from your travels, they won't be selling you powerful items like Spellfury, Velvet dagger(or whatever that dagger is called), etc. Gold will only be used for crafting. Someone like Wade can craft you a powerful item from rare materials you collected but you will be charged for it.

Sounds good to me. Especially if different weapons have significant advantages over others, that an axe is particularly good in ways swords aren't but that swords are useful in other ways than axes (in DAO I found little point in ever using axes or maces, sadly).

[Lotion Soronarr]

That's because a longsword is pretty much the most versatile medieval weapon.



Maces should be excellent against heavier armor (especially chainmail)

Axes have a lot of power behind them, so lightly armored foes would go down fast.



But overall, they are simpler weapons, with less finesse behind them than swords.

[Sir JK]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

That's because a longsword is pretty much the most versatile medieval weapon.
Maces should be excellent against heavier armor (especially chainmail)
Axes have a lot of power behind them, so lightly armored foes would go down fast.
But overall, they are simpler weapons, with less finesse behind them than swords.

That's unfortunantely one of the myths of fantasy (or just mediveal myths alltogether). Swords are very versatile weapons, yes. And they do require a lot of flexibility and dexterty to fight them. But so were maces and axes. It's just that less of their fighting styles are remembered or recorded. But the fighting style was just as flexible and dextrous. Different, yes. But still as complex (they were however, developed from tools and ths far less status weapons than swords).
I don't wish to go on a tangent with this though, but I'm willing to discuss it over pms if you're interested?

[Gvaz]

hangmans tree wrote...

My latest concern...maybe.
I have to say I was kind of put off with DAO inventory. Hoarding all that junk in the inventory was nothing more than source of income. I began to question who is my warden by proffesion? Most time consuming was playing with vast inventory, checking what was useful and what I could sell. Always stuck with insufficient funds for those special items I wanted to buy. Where's the point in that kind of item selection which in 80-90% cases is just space consuming currency?

I always liked a personal, finite space that is enough for significant items, things that you have to choose wisely, plan on ahead what you need for the mission even.

Weapons. A constant ache - how many weapons do I carry with me? Man, at least implement a donkey or a mule to give an illusion you aint carrying all this crap by yoursef (and companions)...in a backpack.

That doesnt mean I want ME2 solution neither. Inventory is important, wide range of useful items is good, make them an accual choice which one to take and which to leave behind.

Monetizing your inventory is a bad logic in my opinion. If I wanted to play a vendor I'd choose another game. Make other options to earn money. I'm not against selling items per se, selling real artifacts and collector items is a good thing. But to look for someone who will buy from me 3 sacks of potatoes and 8kg of apples in a wooden case when I'm on an important errand? This system is flawed because when I dont participate in looting I miss out on all the extra money (well, large lump of it to be fair) to spend it on something worth buying.

 Where is DA2 in that regard I ask?

The only reason to carry weapons around in DAO was to sell them. If they were good, equip them. If they were even slightly worse, give them to teammates. Otherwise sell them. Everything is worth selling. The only things I really kept in my inventory was ingrediants to make items and healing items/balms.

The inventory on the PC was perfect.
I'm also a hoarder (in video games)

Modifié par GvazElite, 14 octobre 2010 - 02:54 .

[slumlord722]

I'm casting my vote for keeping an inventory system similar to the one in DA:O.



Sure, there was a lot of junk loot, but a lot of it was awesome too. I liked having the variety and tons of weapons and armors to choose from. Hell, I'd even say that there weren't nearly enough armor sets throughout the game.



I don't want to be one of the "Oh no, Mass Effect is taking over Dragon Age" people, but I think there is an element of truth to that thought.



Remember the simplified inventory for Mass Effect 2? It boiled down to not having an inventory - to having extremely limited choices regarding weapons and armor.



To that I say no no no no no no no

[Sylvius the Mad]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as a preference i like it more when the inventory is a list instead of a grid,

Why?  Do you find the list easier to use?  I can't imagine how, given that the list never fits entirely on the screen, while the grid does (or in NWN's case, discrete parts of it do, each selectable through a wholly predictable set of commands).

In a list you can't know where things are without digging through to find them every time unless you keep a detailed tally (outside your inventory) of everything that's been added and consumed.

[nightcobra]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as a preference i like it more when the inventory is a list instead of a grid,

Why?  Do you find the list easier to use?  I can't imagine how, given that the list never fits entirely on the screen, while the grid does (or in NWN's case, discrete parts of it do, each selectable through a wholly predictable set of commands).

In a list you can't know where things are without digging through to find them every time unless you keep a detailed tally (outside your inventory) of everything that's been added and consumed.

preferences i guess, in the games that i play that use the list method have a sort button that allows you to find the item you need really fast. you could sort them, alphabetically, by category, by newer item added (that's the most useful one, you pick one up and it's at the top of the inventory list), and other types.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

If I'm to choose between the list and the grid, I'm going with the list. Never enjoyed arranging and re-arranging items to make more space like in NWN/Diablo.

Edit: I hate hoarding in general and thus all kinds of inventory, I must add.

Modifié par The Hardest Thing In The World, 16 octobre 2010 - 08:32 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

My only real complaint with DAO's inventory are:



a) The limit. While I appreciate the backpacks, the fact you can carry 120 items regardless of size or weight is a little weird. My armors take up as much space as those gems, or potions, or etc? Just remove the limit.

No chest in base camp. This was just a stupid idea, placing it in a DLC -and- in an inconvenient location. I hate having to go out, and all the way to Soldier's Peak to drop off items. Multiple loading screens and just downtime where I could just go to party camp and back.

c) Sometimes, it's hard to find just what a "new item" is. Due to the way the scrolling handles, you often trip over items without knowing if you'd just received them or if they'd been there all along. A ME-style popup when you enter the inventory saying "You've obtained A, B, C, D, etc" would really help.

[upsettingshorts]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

My only real complaint with DAO's inventory are:

a) The limit. While I appreciate the backpacks, the fact you can carry 120 items regardless of size or weight is a little weird. My armors take up as much space as those gems, or potions, or etc? Just remove the limit.
No chest in base camp. This was just a stupid idea, placing it in a DLC -and- in an inconvenient location. I hate having to go out, and all the way to Soldier's Peak to drop off items. Multiple loading screens and just downtime where I could just go to party camp and back.
c) Sometimes, it's hard to find just what a "new item" is. Due to the way the scrolling handles, you often trip over items without knowing if you'd just received them or if they'd been there all along. A ME-style popup when you enter the inventory saying "You've obtained A, B, C, D, etc" would really help.

I think I have to disagree on a couple points there Mr. Cat Soup:

a) Removing the limit seems like the wrong way to deal with the problem of gems counting as much as whole suits of armor. 
Storage ought to make some kind of contextual sense - not only the what and how, but the why?  For example in Fallout 3 I stored items that I'd later use to build things, or use for highly specific purposes - like a radiation suit.
c) Definitely, the "Item received" popup of DA:O's was a GUI failure.

Come to think of it, I don't have a ton to say in this post.  I just wanted to say Mr. Cat Soup.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 08:37 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

It isn't a problem in terms of how much it weighs, it's a problem in the fact that the small things count just as much as large things when counting to 120.



You could have 120 gems and still hit the limit, or 120 swords and hit the limit. It doesn't matter WHAT you're carrying, simply the fact the limit itself is annoying. Ditch the limit. The fact you can already cart that much around is unrealistic (and I don't want realism in this case!) so just remove the number..

[upsettingshorts]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

It isn't a problem in terms of how much it weighs, it's a problem in the fact that the small things count just as much as large things when counting to 120.

You could have 120 gems and still hit the limit, or 120 swords and hit the limit. It doesn't matter WHAT you're carrying, simply the fact the limit itself is annoying. Ditch the limit. The fact you can already cart that much around is unrealistic (and I don't want realism in this case!) so just remove the number..

I understand your point, just on the specific issue of weight and inventory I prefer realism.  I get the other side of the argument, however.  

Something close to Fallout 3 with a system that implements a limit on volume (either through a grid system or simply an abstract measurement of "item size" within a list) would basically be my ultimate preference.

[AngryFrozenWater]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as a preference i like it more when the inventory is a list instead of a grid,

Why?  Do you find the list easier to use?  I can't imagine how, given that the list never fits entirely on the screen, while the grid does (or in NWN's case, discrete parts of it do, each selectable through a wholly predictable set of commands).

In a list you can't know where things are without digging through to find them every time unless you keep a detailed tally (outside your inventory) of everything that's been added and consumed.

preferences i guess, in the games that i play that use the list method have a sort button that allows you to find the item you need really fast. you could sort them, alphabetically, by category, by newer item added (that's the most useful one, you pick one up and it's at the top of the inventory list), and other types.

I like the list too. I wish there were more categories, like "Herbalism related", "Posison related", "Trap related",  and so on. Each category could have sub-categories using visible separators in the inventory/trading list, like "Potions", "Ingredients", "Recipes"). Each item could be tagged and the list should have buttons like "Tag all", "Tag none", "Drop tagged", and (during trading) "Sell tagged". That would make it easier to find stuff, to drop stuff you don't need, and to sell things in bulk. Tagged items should also prevent the little dialog which ask you how many to handle and imply "all". These would be in addition to the regular functionality.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:23 .

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

It is funny, however, that you go on about small things taking as much space as the larger things and conveniently disregard your PC carrying sets of armor while fighting darkspawns. At least, it's funny to me.

Modifié par The Hardest Thing In The World, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:24 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

It is funny, however, that you go on about small things taking as much space as the larger things and conveniently disregard your PC carrying sets of armor fighting darkspawns. At least, it's funny to me.

To you it is funny. I am more like Sopa de Gato and not after realism. To me it serves gameplay. DA:O didn't try to be a Microsoft Blight Similator. That's OK with me.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:28 .

[nightcobra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as a preference i like it more when the inventory is a list instead of a grid,

Why?  Do you find the list easier to use?  I can't imagine how, given that the list never fits entirely on the screen, while the grid does (or in NWN's case, discrete parts of it do, each selectable through a wholly predictable set of commands).

In a list you can't know where things are without digging through to find them every time unless you keep a detailed tally (outside your inventory) of everything that's been added and consumed.

preferences i guess, in the games that i play that use the list method have a sort button that allows you to find the item you need really fast. you could sort them, alphabetically, by category, by newer item added (that's the most useful one, you pick one up and it's at the top of the inventory list), and other types.

I like the list too. I wish there were more categories, like "Herbalism related", "Posison related", "Trap related",  and so on. Each category could have sub-categories using visible separators in the inventory/trading list, like "Potions", "Ingredients", "Recipes"). Each item could be tagged and the list should have buttons like "Tag all", "Tag none", "Drop tagged", and (during trading) "Sell tagged". That would make it easier to find stuff, to drop stuff you don't need, and to sell things in bulk. Tagged items should also prevent the little dialog which ask you how many to handle and imply "all".

one thing i'd like changed however is how many items we choose, what i mean is, instead of a slider to do this management... i'd prefer if it manageable through digits, ugh how do i say this... i really don't like using this example but it's the closest one i got which is pokemon, in which you can go to the digit you want and change it like for example you want 30 potions and you got 10, you could just go to the digit marking 1 and change it 3 instead of pushing the slider until you get 30.

am i making any sense here?

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

It is funny, however, that you go on about small things taking as much space as the larger things and conveniently disregard your PC carrying sets of armor fighting darkspawns. At least, it's funny to me.

To you it is funny. I am more like Sopa de Gata and not after realism. To me it serves gameplay. DA:O didn't try to be a Microsoft Blight Similator. That's OK with me.

Then a gem taking as much space a full set of armor shouldn't be a problem too if we're not after realism.

[Copyright Theft]

Just to chime in with my tuppence.

I'd like something akin to the ME1 loot/inventory system. No junk/vendor trash (everything you loot gives equipment or money/resources), and maybe the option to break down equipment into resources if you don't want to wait and sell it

Modifié par Copyright Theft, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:34 .

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as a preference i like it more when the inventory is a list instead of a grid,

Why?  Do you find the list easier to use?  I can't imagine how, given that the list never fits entirely on the screen, while the grid does (or in NWN's case, discrete parts of it do, each selectable through a wholly predictable set of commands).

In a list you can't know where things are without digging through to find them every time unless you keep a detailed tally (outside your inventory) of everything that's been added and consumed.

preferences i guess, in the games that i play that use the list method have a sort button that allows you to find the item you need really fast. you could sort them, alphabetically, by category, by newer item added (that's the most useful one, you pick one up and it's at the top of the inventory list), and other types.

I like the list too. I wish there were more categories, like "Herbalism related", "Posison related", "Trap related",  and so on. Each category could have sub-categories using visible separators in the inventory/trading list, like "Potions", "Ingredients", "Recipes"). Each item could be tagged and the list should have buttons like "Tag all", "Tag none", "Drop tagged", and (during trading) "Sell tagged". That would make it easier to find stuff, to drop stuff you don't need, and to sell things in bulk. Tagged items should also prevent the little dialog which ask you how many to handle and imply "all".

one thing i'd like changed however is how many items we choose, what i mean is, instead of a slider to do this management... i'd prefer if it manageable through digits, ugh how do i say this... i really don't like using this example but it's the closest one i got which is pokemon, in which you can go to the digit you want and change it like for example you want 30 potions and you got 10, you could just go to the digit marking 1 and change it 3 instead of pushing the slider until you get 30.

am i making any sense here?

Not at all, ser. Maybe some illustrations will help.

[AngryFrozenWater]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

one thing i'd like changed however is how many items we choose, what i mean is, instead of a slider to do this management... i'd prefer if it manageable through digits, ugh how do i say this... i really don't like using this example but it's the closest one i got which is pokemon, in which you can go to the digit you want and change it like for example you want 30 potions and you got 10, you could just go to the digit marking 1 and change it 3 instead of pushing the slider until you get 30.

am i making any sense here?

I understand what you mean. On the PC that would be easy to do by just making it an edit box so you can type it. But you play on the PS3, right? How about a way to select a digit and that pops up a small list with other digits you can select from? That must be doable.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:41 .