530 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeStrike8]

I think some combination of Baldur's Gate, Dungeon Siege and Dragon Age is best: Each character has only a set number of inventory slots (but the same for all characters) BUT each person can only carry a set weight amount, based directly on how physically strong that character is. I always loved that style because it made sense realistically, and required player input to decide what to take and what not to take. More points are scored by that system because you could put stuff into quick-use slots for easy access, which was about as good as sticking a potion on your belt (and that really did happen as far as I could tell).

About the only thing I didn't like about BG 2 (and other Infinity Engine games in general) were the 'persisten quest items'. If I've used that key, and it has no other use, it should vanish. Period. Don't leave it there and make me think it serves some other use later on! That just gets into the annoyance zone, and nevermind that the key occupies the same space as a longsword!

To conclude, the ideal inventory system for any RPG should have:

1) Only a set amount of carrying space per person, no shared inventory. Not item numbers, but actual space, with objects sized differently depending on what they are. Armor suits are not as small as swords. They're big, and they should be represented in such a manner (Dungeon Seige is one video game that did this).

2) Be restricted by how physically strong the carrier is. Makes strong characters doubly useful, and makes sense in-game.

3) Separate quest items into hammer space. Yes, I know that conflicts with the realism setting of the first two points, but this is a case of where realism isn't fun, at least as far as I see it.

[RENEGADEXVIII]

Telum101 wrote...

You simply didn't play the game right if you looted everything on sight and still didn't manage to pick up anything of value. The majority of the good items are looted to begin with, and as I said before, if you did a few side quests and traded in your replaced items, you should've ended up with enough to buy some good items (if you insist so much on buying everything you use).

Again, the game is what you make it. You can't complain that there's too much to handle if you're the one shoveling everything you see into your backpack.

But you are forced to collect all of the junk you find and haul it around until you reach a vendor...that is if you want to be able to afford hight level gear by mid-game or Epic-level gear by end game.

My biggest gripe is that 90% of the drops and chest in this game contain ridiculously low level items.It's obviously that the loot in this game is meant as a means to ration out monetary gain,so that you won't be able to afford those high level items until later on in the game.I'd rather they put level prerequisites on high end gear so that they can up the quality in drops and chest.For once I'd like to crack a tier 4 chest at level 18 and actually get something useful.

That being said I'd like to see and improvement not a total nerf,although a nerf is what we very well my see (since casual gamers don't care for lots of inventory.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'll reiterate what Vaeliorin said - the best inventory system in a modern game was in Wizardry 8. Each character had an individual inventory, plus there was a shared party inventory. Any character could access items in the shared inventory, but doing so in combat cost a turn (Wiz8 had turn-based combat, so spending a turn to move a single item around was equivalent to being unpaused).

There were no volume limits, but there were a finite number of slots available in the individual inventories. And there were weight limits. Each character had to be able to carry his own individual inventory (and he had to carry with him any item he wanted to be able to use in combat without losing a turn to transfer first), plus a pro-rated share of the party inventory.

Better still, the encumbrance rules were wonderful, YOu really couldn't carry much without seeing encumbrance penatlies, but the initial penalties were very small, and rose gradually with an increased load.

Wizardry 8's inventory system needs to be copied.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 18 octobre 2010 - 02:13 .

[Marbazoid]

@Sylvius the Mad

You crusade for an inventory system that makes sense within the game setting, yet having a bag full of weapons and armor is inherently unrealistic and makes no sense within the setting of Mass Effect and Dragon Age. 

You have to draw the line between setting and game-play somewhere. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

You assume that gameplay and setting/realism are inherenty opposed.



They are not. It depends.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Marbazoid wrote...

@Sylvius the Mad

You crusade for an inventory system that makes sense within the game setting, yet having a bag full of weapons and armor is inherently unrealistic and makes no sense within the setting of Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

That would depend on the bag.

Saying that any bag full of armour or weapons is unrealistic is flatly absurd.

[aaniadyen]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Marbazoid wrote...

@Sylvius the Mad

You crusade for an inventory system that makes sense within the game setting, yet having a bag full of weapons and armor is inherently unrealistic and makes no sense within the setting of Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

That would depend on the bag.

Saying that any bag full of armour or weapons is unrealistic is flatly absurd.

Maybe, but is it not absurd to be able to fight just as well while carrying 5 sets of 40-lb. plate mail armor as you can without it?

[Marbazoid]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Marbazoid wrote...

@Sylvius the Mad

You crusade for an inventory system that makes sense within the game setting, yet having a bag full of weapons and armor is inherently unrealistic and makes no sense within the setting of Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

That would depend on the bag.



Saying that any bag full of armour or weapons is unrealistic is flatly absurd.

I should have been more specific.

The only armor and weapons you would be carrying would be the ones you can physically equip and carry on yourself. The Mass Effect 2 armory system actually makes sense. Pausing the game, sifting through your bag o' gunz to equip a different sniper rifle, which your character proceeds to pluck out of his pocket, makes no sense.
 
But why is the inventory being picked on as something that requires an explanation in the games setting? most pnp rpg's have dice rolls, levels, classes and experience points. How do you decide what needs to be rationalized in the setting and what doesn't?

Modifié par Marbazoid, 18 octobre 2010 - 07:53 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Experience is an approximation, an attempt at simulation. Same as dice rolls. Computers deal with hard numbers, so everything has to be numbered.



So it ROUGHLY works in a similar way in real life.

Inventory? In most cases, not so much.





I still say having a basic inventory with items you PC carries directly (armor, weapons, etc..), the belt/pouch (quick access small items) and backpack (volume and mass limited items, cannot be used in combat) is the best way to go. For example:



Assume the PC has a STR of 30, meaning he can carry 150 lbs max.



Let's say the equipped items weigh 60 lbs (armor, sword&shield, secondary and backup weapon)



The belt/pouch has only small, light items(so volume isn't a issue)..let's say 5lbs



He's already close to half his max weight. His backpack has a max volume of 50..and he's got a 25 lbs margin before the weight starts kicking it with big penalties.



So..he COULD put a chainmail (30volume, 25lbs) in the backpack...or he could shove other things. A large solid gold bar uses less volume, but weighs more. Or he could carry another set of plate mail, but it will completley fill up his backpack...

[Sylvius the Mad]

aaniadyen wrote...

Maybe, but is it not absurd to be able to fight just as well while carrying 5 sets of 40-lb. plate mail armor as you can without it?

That would be asburd.

Is anyone asking for that?

[maxernst]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

Maybe, but is it not absurd to be able to fight just as well while carrying 5 sets of 40-lb. plate mail armor as you can without it?

That would be asburd.

Is anyone asking for that?

That's why Sylvius asked for limits on weight rather than number of items.  I'm guessing from a programming perspective, it's easier to do item numbers, but there were too many different kinds of salves.  I never used them much because they took up too much inventory space--but it was silly that I freed up just as much inventory by dropping a salve as by dropping a suit of plate mail.

I'm just as glad not to be phutzing around with arranging items in my inventory and moving stuff around from character to character, though.  Realistic, but too much tedium.  I'd like an inventory system similar to DA, but with a weight limit.

[upsettingshorts]

Indeed, it is no more unrealistic to carry ten suits of armor than it is to carry six-hundred bottles of health potion.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Indeed, it is no more unrealistic to carry ten suits of armor than it is to carry six-hundred bottles of health potion.

Both are crazy.  This is why items should have mass.

[Sylvius the Mad]

maxernst wrote...

I'm just as glad not to be phutzing around with arranging items in my inventory and moving stuff around from character to character, though.  Realistic, but too much tedium.  I'd like an inventory system similar to DA, but with a weight limit.

If there's a restriction on accessing it during combat (even just a forced unpause) I would be mostly happy with that (I'd still object to the list design, though).

[upsettingshorts]

Oh I'm agreeing with you 100%. I would love for a mass and volume restricted system as I've said.

But then I don't even want a shared inventory unless there is a visible and contextual game mechanic to support it, like an actual pack mule. That can be killed.

Or a static container that the party must be near in order to use, like at camp or something. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 octobre 2010 - 07:01 .

[Meltemph]

I guess I find myself able to suspend my disbelief just fine with inventories, as long as they are not a pain in the ass. About my only request in terms of inventories, I think they should be intuitive and easy to manage. I mean, inventories at the very least allow your character to have a varied look and allows them to use multiple weapon types, just for fun.



At the same time, getting rid of an inventory also would not be any real loss, to me, as long as it is done and it is still fun.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Meltemph wrote...

I think they should be intuitive and easy to manage.

I agree entirely with that, but I think BioWare has completely failed to offer anything that qualifies as intuitive or easy to manage since NWN.

The list inventories of KotOR, ME, and DAO were all equally appalling.

[FieryDove]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I think they should be intuitive and easy to manage.

I agree entirely with that, but I think BioWare has completely failed to offer anything that qualifies as intuitive or easy to manage since NWN.

The list inventories of KotOR, ME, and DAO were all equally appalling.

The reason is right there...

List inventories....horrible.

[DMC12]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Oh I'm agreeing with you 100%. I would love for a mass and volume restricted system as I've said.

But then I don't even want a shared inventory unless there is a visible and contextual game mechanic to support it, like an actual pack mule. That can be killed.

Or a static container that the party must be near in order to use, like at camp or something. 

We need a companion like Patsy a la Monty Python and the Holy Grail. They would meet both of those descriptions.

[Meltemph]

I agree entirely with that, but I think BioWare has completely failed to offer anything that qualifies as intuitive or easy to manage since NWN.



The list inventories of KotOR, ME, and DAO were all equally appalling.

Ya, probably the one thing I blame on JRPG's(And I like JRPG's so not a knock against them as a whole)... Also, I assume it has something to do with resource management, but ya, the lists can sometimes give you a headache. When you are trying to find whatever you picked-up and just happened to not be paying attention, and now you have to cycle through 125 items, to find it, ya a bit annoying.

[Lumikki]

Most inventory systems are unrealistic, becuse if they where realistic, it would need to change hole looting systems in games. Meaning game what is build around looting, needs to have big inventories lists, because other ways players inventory would be full all the time. Games what is based idea that player buy they items from shops can manage with alot smaller inventory. Usually these shop kind of game reward players with gold ("money") when done something worth while.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 octobre 2010 - 10:46 .

[upsettingshorts]

Lumikki wrote...

Most inventory systems are unrealistic, becuse if they where realistic, it would need to change hole looting systems in games. Meaning game what is build around looting, needs to have big inventories lists, because other ways players inventory would be full all the time. Games what is based idea that player buy they items from shops can manage with alot smaller inventory.

Or you could rely on the player to look at a corpse filled with potential stuff to pick up but say, "You know what, none of this crap is all that valuable" and... this is going to be shocking... walk away leaving the loot there.

(Cut to stock footage of women covering their children's eyes and men recoiling in horror)

Loot should be plentiful.  Really useful items - either for resale or use - should be rare and their drop rate/location/context ought to make sense.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 octobre 2010 - 10:48 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Leave the inventory system alone! It was great as is! If you dont like sosrting through crap, DONT PICK IT UP!!!! You always had the option to pick up individual items or all items so too much to look thru was your fault! I loved all the random crap I could pick up cause that was more to sell. I didnt even need missions to have enough money for anything. Anytime I was in a town I sold crap and got want I wanted in return. Learn how to play the game people. The system worked. If they want to drop rare armor and weapons into loot, then they can, but dont take away the inventory system like you did in ME2! ME2's was horrible. It was like they tried to fleash it out but got bored mid way... If they had 1 piece of armor to customize, it should have let you get different styles to all sections, different decals, option for removing helmet etc. There wasnt enough of anything! ME1 had tons of different looking armor! What happened in ME2? Oh and from the little bit of armor I seen in DA2, it looks like they're moving in the right direction! The Animations are top notch this time and I hope the models improved greatly as well. Im tired of seeing Allister 40x each city!

[upsettingshorts]

aang001 wrote...
Learn how to play the game people. The system worked.

I know how to play, and I know that it functioned properly.  That doesn't prevent me from having a preference for something I think would be superior.

Fallout 3 has a better system than DA:O, and it "worked" too.   It's not a zero-sum game, there is no "right" answer.

It's been a long, long time, but I seem to recall Deus Ex having one of my favorite inventory systems I've ever run across.  Though that might just be nostalgia for one of the best games ever made.  Man... if Mass Effect incorporated half the same features in terms of how to complete a mission... /daydreams

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 octobre 2010 - 10:58 .

[maxernst]

Why don't people like lists? With a visual inventory like BG you have to click on every item individually to determine what it was. The only thing I'd ask for is better sorting options, though at least it wasn't as horrible as ME1. Buying and selling stuff in ME1 was torture because you could only "see" the items being worn by the current squad members, so it was like...hmmm...is this Turian armor better than what Garrus is wearing back on the Normandy. Can Kaidan wear medium armor? Plus, there was the arrangement of items by tier rather than by type. Ugh...

Modifié par maxernst, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:20 .