530 réponses à ce sujet

[Punahedan]

FieryDove wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I think they should be intuitive and easy to manage.

I agree entirely with that, but I think BioWare has completely failed to offer anything that qualifies as intuitive or easy to manage since NWN.

The list inventories of KotOR, ME, and DAO were all equally appalling.

The reason is right there...

List inventories....horrible.

Yep. I will take micromanaging a couple of times throughout the game over having to rummage EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[Lumikki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Most inventory systems are unrealistic, becuse if they where realistic, it would need to change hole looting systems in games. Meaning game what is build around looting, needs to have big inventories lists, because other ways players inventory would be full all the time. Games what is based idea that player buy they items from shops can manage with alot smaller inventory.

Or you could rely on the player to look at a corpse filled with potential stuff to pick up but say, "You know what, none of this crap is all that valuable" and... this is going to be shocking... walk away leaving the loot there.

(Cut to stock footage of women covering their children's eyes and men recoiling in horror)

Loot should be plentiful.  Really useful items - either for resale or use - should be rare and their drop rate/location/context ought to make sense.

Cleaning big inventory list because it's full isn't any better than forced select items when looting, because not enough inventory room for items. Both systems are annoying, because it limits players actions to do what they want. Best system is done so that it never limits players action anyways, because system is design so that there is no needs for artificial limits.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

maxernst wrote...

Why don't people like lists? With a visual inventory like BG you have to click on every item individually to determine what it was.

Only if it was new.  After that you knew where everything was because you could arrange it yourself.  There was no need to browse at all.

Using DAO's inventory system consists of nothing but browsing, and browsing wastes time.

[ErichHartmann]

Browsing is only an issue when you fail to clean out your inventory from time to time with stuff you never use.  No reason to be carrying around starter armor and weapons the entire game, for example.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Browsing is only an issue when you fail to clean out your inventory from time to time with stuff you never use.

Really?  Where's your Fire Salve?  Right now, tell me where it is.

Unless you've put it on your quickbar (which means you had to avoid putting osmething else there, as there aren't enough quickbar slots for everything), you need to go browsing for it.

In a grid inventory like NWN, though, you would know that it was the third item from the left on the bottom row, and you would know that because you put it there.

[tmp7704]

There isn't really one "obviously better" way for everyone. If someone is OCD enough to indeed memorize where they put each type of consumable, on every character they play, even after they come back to the game after a few day break... not to mention to actually have specific spots for specific items in the first place, then certainly the grid system can be faster for them.

On the other hand if someone doesn't memorize such things, then --especially if game suffers from large number of consumables with similar icons-- it can be faster to find items in the list, simply because the list offers all item names upfront, conveniently ready for the brain to turn on the fast reading/text recognition skills and find what the player is after through a quick glance, vs. having to mouse over each item separately to see the individual names shown in tooltip or wherever.

Modifié par tmp7704, 19 octobre 2010 - 02:11 .

[Addai]

All you people and your restrictions! Pfeh! Inventory restrictions are annoying. Let the player decide, within reasonable gameplay parameters.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fallout 3 has a better system than DA:O, and it "worked" too.   It's not a zero-sum game, there is no "right" answer.

I dunno about that.  You had to talk to a follower to see what they had, which was cumbersome, and led to uncomfortable situations as walking around the Wasteland and suddenly seeing Fawkes cannot carry any more items.  WTF, I overloaded Fawkes?!

It happens.

[Lotion Soronarr]

aang001 wrote...

Leave the inventory system alone! It was great as is! If you dont like sosrting through crap, DONT PICK IT UP!!!!

Possible, but the game was designed for you to pick it up. The game itself is very loot/grind centric and one can feel that. In other words, the game expects me to pick up everything - otherwise you wouldn't have such a large inventory and looting wouldn't be so profitable.

[upsettingshorts]

Lumikki wrote...
Best system is done so that it never limits players action anyways, because system is design so that there is no needs for artificial limits.

Having restrictions isn't artificial.  Having no restrictions is artificial.  Making that restriction weight and volume is less artificial than an arbitrary maximum number of items in which a suit of plate mail counts as much as a dagger.

Remember though, we're talking about preferences - not rules.

Addai67 wrote...
I dunno about that.  You had to talk to a
follower to see what they had, which was cumbersome, and led to
uncomfortable situations as walking around the Wasteland and suddenly
seeing Fawkes cannot carry any more items.  WTF, I overloaded Fawkes?!

It happens.

Why shouldn't Fawkes have a limit? He's not Atlas.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:09 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

maxernst wrote...

Why don't people like lists? With a visual inventory like BG you have to click on every item individually to determine what it was...

Not really..BG had a different icon for every item, unlike DA:O.

[Lumikki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Best system is done so that it never limits players action anyways, because system is design so that there is no needs for artificial limits.

Having restrictions isn't artificial.  Having no restrictions is artificial.  Making that restriction weight and volume is less artificial than an arbitrary maximum number of items in which a suit of plate mail counts as much as a dagger.

Depense what is the looting like.

Meaning if player gets alot of junk items from loots what player character could never been able to carry, then restricting it's more realistic.

How ever, if loot doesn't give for player anything what player doesn't need, just money and consumed items, then there is no need for restrictions, because player never gets what would go over the character ability carry. Because the real item advance is done by buying from shops or crafting.

[tmp7704]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not really..BG had a different icon for every item, unlike DA:O.

Which still requires the player to learn and then remember what all these icons actually mean. And when there's a lot of them ... have fun telling apart potion of agility from potion of cold resistance and such, without a good squint. Or remembering all these symbols for mage scrolls.

[Wulfram]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Browsing is only an issue when you fail to clean out your inventory from time to time with stuff you never use.

Really?  Where's your Fire Salve?  Right now, tell me where it is.

Sold to a merchant.

Did people actually use those things?

[Lumikki]

Wulfram wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Browsing is only an issue when you fail to clean out your inventory from time to time with stuff you never use.

Really?  Where's your Fire Salve?  Right now, tell me where it is.

Sold to a merchant.

Did people actually use those things?

90% of items what I looted in DAO, I never used to anything else than sold them to get money.

[blothulfur]

You know you wouldn't need all the loot if you got a decent reward from rich bastards like arl eamon "I've saved your castle, your village, your son and brother I even got rid of that harpy you were married to as well as saving you're life and all I get is a bloody shield. Go screw yourself eamon i'm joining loghain".

[snackrat]

I don't know if they can implement it in this game legally or not, but I rather like Oblivion's encumbering system.

Specifically that, rather than slots, you had a limited amount of... well, 'weight units', and each item would way a different amount of units. If you went over that limit, you couldn't move until you dropped something (though it maybe have been better if you just moved very slowly and couldn't regenerate fatigue or something).
So, a sword would be, say, 17 points for a shortsword or something, but 37 for a warhammer, and a potion was 0.2. I like that system.

The slots make so little sense to me. Massive armour of combined chestplate and greaves take up the SAME SPACE as.... a piece of paper: the litany. I.... wow. That doesn't quite sound right. And yet 99 poultices also happen to be the EXACT SAME SIZE as one poultice! Bending of time and space! Who knew?

Of course, it is probably MUCH to late to implement anything in the game like this now, but it's just silly is all...!

Modifié par Karsciyin, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:41 .

[maxernst]

tmp7704 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not really..BG had a different icon for every item, unlike DA:O.

Which still requires the player to learn and then remember what all these icons actually mean. And when there's a lot of them ... have fun telling apart potion of agility from potion of cold resistance and such, without a good squint. Or remembering all these symbols for mage scrolls.

Exactly.  I have a much easier time recognizing words than icons.  I hate the Mac-ification of software with the proliferation of stupid little icons in the place of text so I have to hover my mouse over them to figure out what they mean.

[maxernst]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

maxernst wrote...

Why don't people like lists? With a visual inventory like BG you have to click on every item individually to determine what it was.

Only if it was new.  After that you knew where everything was because you could arrange it yourself.  There was no need to browse at all.

Using DAO's inventory system consists of nothing but browsing, and browsing wastes time.

Maybe for somebody with a photographic memory.  How the hell do you remember where you put things?  It's hard enough for me to keep track of a small number of items in the real world; there's no way I'd ever remember an arrangement of 100 items on a computer screen.

Modifié par maxernst, 19 octobre 2010 - 03:04 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

maxernst wrote...

Maybe for somebody with a photographic memory.  How the hell do you remember where you put things?

I arrange them in a simple and predictable pattern.

Do you really just hunt through your inventory every time?  Really?  That's so inefficient.

[Barrendall]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In a grid inventory like NWN, though, you would know that it was the third item from the left on the bottom row, and you would know that because you put it there.

Sylvius is correct.  You spent far less time searching for a needed item in NWN than you do in Bioware games that were made later.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Barrendall111 wrote...

Sylvius is correct.  You spent far less time searching for a needed item in NWN than you do in Bioware games that were made later.

And regardless, if DAO were to copy NWN's alternate quickbar system, there would be less need ever to access the inventory, since we could just put the things we want to use on the quickbar.

There were so many things NWN did well.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Really?  Where's your Fire Salve?  Right now, tell me where it is.

Not in my inventory, as it turns out, because that's garbage loot I never use.

In a grid inventory like NWN, though, you would know that it was the third item from the left on the bottom row, and you would know that because you put it there.

No. In a grid inventory, you could know, provided you memorized the arrangement of the grid or otherwise arranged it yourself. This is no different than memorizing the order of items across each tab in the DA menu. You could then say that the elfroot is the 4th item from the top in the 4th menu tab (as an example).

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

No. In a grid inventory, you could know, provided you memorized the arrangement of the grid or otherwise arranged it yourself. This is no different than memorizing the order of items across each tab in the DA menu. You could then say that the elfroot is the 4th item from the top in the 4th menu tab (as an example).

But that's not true.  DAO's inventory was auto-sorted, so what was 4th from the top last time might not be 4th from the top now if you happened to use the item that had been third from the top, or picked up two items that were sorted into the top 4 spots.

DAO's inventory required browsing.

If DAO had let us sort the list manually and leave gaps in it, then your analogy would hold.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:17 .

[maxernst]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

maxernst wrote...

Maybe for somebody with a photographic memory.  How the hell do you remember where you put things?

I arrange them in a simple and predictable pattern.

Do you really just hunt through your inventory every time?  Really?  That's so inefficient.

My approach was always to put certain types of items on certain screens.  For example, I might put all potions on scrolls that I might intend to use on the first and everything that I'm planning to sell as soon as I get to a store on another.  So an alphabetized list of potions is typically faster for me than going to the screen where all my potions are and either trying to remember which color is which or clicking on them all.

A system that would allow you to know exactly where a potion of fire resistance can hardly be that simple, since it would require a specific target location for hundreds of different possible items.  And what do you do if the character carrying all of a particular type of item gets overburdened?   I assume that your predictable pattern must also include which character carries them, otherwise you'd have to hunt through page 3, upper right hand corner of all six characters. I often pick up games and play for an hour or two and then don't play again for a week.  There's no way I would ever remember an elaborate classification system.

You spend time finding the correct location for every single item you pick up, in games where ninety-five percent of everything you pick up is crap that you'll sell instead of using anyway? 

I still think it relies heavily on having a good memory.  When I was travelling recently, I decided to put my house keys in a pocket of my suit case, thinking that I wouldn't need them.  Of course, by the time it was time to come home, I was running around trying to remember where I put them.  I finally found them, moved them into my pocket before getting on the plane.  When I got home, I "remembered" that I had put my keys in a pocket of my suitcase and went looking for them again, didn't find them and panicked.  Of course, they were in my pocket, but it took me five minutes of rummaging around my luggage before I determined that.