295 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

@Grillz



Moses, he would snap the DA disk in half.



@Dielos



I asked a question which has yet to be proved. Do you think if someone created a religion now that said that a god told them to do so, would gain followers? People needed to see to join in the first place.



@SirOccam



I just had the assumption that immortal spirits can only exist due to a creator with great power making them everlasting. My bad.

[Herr Uhl]

Elton John is dead wrote...

@SirOccam

I just had the assumption that immortal spirits can only exist due to a creator with great power making them everlasting. My bad.

Hmm, will SirShrek now come and talk about how there must be a maker since magic exists in Thedas?

*ponders*

[Eternal Phoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

@SirOccam

I just had the assumption that immortal spirits can only exist due to a creator with great power making them everlasting. My bad.

Hmm, will SirShrek now come and talk about how there must be a maker since magic exists in Thedas?

*ponders*

So someone with powerful magic gave everyone everlasting spirits? Sounds like The Maker to me.

SirOccam wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

http://www.telegraph...e-happened.html

Not all is based on Zero proof.

Not to belabor the point, but that article is not proof either. They demonstrated how it could have happened. They did not prove that it did happen.

The scientists found that an east wind of 63 mph blowing for 12 hours would have driven the shallow waters back, both into the lake and the river channel.

So they figured that out, but they did not say that an east wind of 63 mph did blow for 12 hours.

Anyway, my point is there's a difference between proof and evidence and establishing plausibility.

They believe that it could have happened. 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:44 .

[Iberius]

Well, no matter whether you think the Maker exists in the game or not, I don't think BioWare will ever give 100% conformation either way. Odds are they will continue to give support to both sides to fuel the character conversation and storyline so you can answer accordingly based on where you think the evidence points in the game.

Personally, I don't think we'll get any definite yes or no on this argument, but I could always be wrong.

Modifié par Iberius, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Dileos]

Elton John is dead wrote...


@Dielos

I asked a question which has yet to be proved. Do you think if someone created a religion now that said that a god told them to do so, would gain followers? People needed to see to join in the first place.

No, if somebody today created a new religion I doubt it would get nearly as popular as the big 3. However cults pop up almost everyday all across the world, most of which bear no resemblence to the religion that inspired them(if they were even inspired by a religion to begin with.)

However when most of the worlds major religions were formed (The 3 Abrahamic religions or Bhuddism and Hinduism) humanity lacked to the tools to explain the natural world and readily believed them, in a modern 1st world or Western country I don't see a brand new religion taking off any time soon.

Modifié par Dileos, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:48 .

[SirOccam]

Elton John is dead wrote...

@SirOccam

I just had the assumption that immortal spirits can only exist due to a creator with great power making them everlasting. My bad.

I know this was sarcastic, but it's true. It is an assumption.

First, do we know spirits are immortal? I ask that, but it really doesn't change anything, regardless of the answer.

Second, I want to make it clear that I don't have proof that there is no Maker, but I see no reason to assume there is without any proof. You are seeing things and just assuming they must have been created by the Maker. I don't understand why you necessarily have to jump to that conclusion. In a world with magic like the one in Dragon Age, who can say what's possible and what's not without a Maker? Unless you're thinking the existence of magic is proof of the Maker as well.

[SirOccam]

Elton John is dead wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

http://www.telegraph...e-happened.html

Not all is based on Zero proof.

Not to belabor the point, but that article is not proof either. They demonstrated how it could have happened. They did not prove that it did happen.

The scientists found that an east wind of 63 mph blowing for 12 hours would have driven the shallow waters back, both into the lake and the river channel.

So they figured that out, but they did not say that an east wind of 63 mph did blow for 12 hours.

Anyway, my point is there's a difference between proof and evidence and establishing plausibility.

They believe that it could have happened. 

And belief is very different from proof. I believe there is no God, but that doesn't mean I can prove it.

[Eternal Phoenix]

I don't believe cave men existed. I believe there were tribes and some humans lived in caves once. Last time I saw, cave drawings showed people worshipping a god. If you believe cave men did exist then you have to believe that they weren't as intelligent as us, yet they looked around and decided that something created them. This probably won't convince you but you are entitled to believe what you want.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Acharnae wrote...

Seriously though. The maker is corrupted and unethical. He is the banner of slavery and merely clashed with a Thedas kingdom whch also embraced slavery. Such symbols need to be put down (or burned - twice)

Not sure about this. His prophetess hated slavery. She joined with the elves remember? 

@ SirOccum

I don't believe magic proves The Maker is real. I am saying that if The Maker was not real, why is there The Fade where dead people go to? 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:53 .

[Stanley Woo]

And let's keep this discussion Dragon Age-related, please. Debates about real-world religions can quickly turn to religious flame wars where people get offended very easily.

[Iberius]

Acharnae wrote...

Seriously though. The maker is corrupted and unethical. He is the banner of slavery and merely clashed with a Thedas kingdom whch also embraced slavery. Such symbols need to be put down (or burned - twice)

Is the Maker in DA the banner of slavery or did people use him as a banner for slavery? People could use the Maker to fuel many things both good and bad. That does not mean the Maker itself is any of those things.

Modifié par Iberius, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:54 .

[AxelBat]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dileos wrote...

grillz wrote...

Moses vs The Maker. who would win.

Odin

Lara Croft ... err ... I meant Thor.

Ra

[Eternal Phoenix]

Ra? 

[Dileos]

AxelBat wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dileos wrote...

grillz wrote...

Moses vs The Maker. who would win.

Odin

Lara Croft ... err ... I meant Thor.

Ra

Odin is superior, he was never nailed to wood, nailed by horny gamers or had a beak.

he had a beer and a beard.

Modifié par Dileos, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:56 .

[Iberius]

*Messed up trying to correct earlier post

Modifié par Iberius, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:56 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Dileos wrote...

AxelBat wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dileos wrote...

grillz wrote...

Moses vs The Maker. who would win.

Odin

Lara Croft ... err ... I meant Thor.

Ra

Odin is superior, he was never nailed to wood, nailed by horny gamers or had a beak.

he had a beer and a beard.

Okay, we are going off-topic. However, you obviously don't understand that Jesus being nailed to a cross was meant to be. 

Also, Odin had one of his eyes plucked out and was hanged on a tree. He was last seen retreating into a cave like a coward according to Wikipedia while Zeus was busy with his boyfriend. 

[AlexXIV]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I don't believe cave men existed. I believe there were tribes and some humans lived in caves once. Last time I saw, cave drawings showed people worshipping a god. If you believe cave men did exist then you have to believe that they weren't as intelligent as us, yet they looked around and decided that something created them. This probably won't convince you but you are entitled to believe what you want.

If you have a lot of questions and no answers, you can do two things. Believe in someone who supposedly knows all the answers, or go find your own answers. I'd advice the second because if the first is true then the second will eventually lead to the first.

[blothulfur]

Odin was well hung (from a tree).

[Dileos]

Elton John is dead wrote...


Okay, we are going off-topic. However, you obviously don't understand that Jesus being nailed to a cross was meant to be. 

Also, Odin had one of his eyes plucked out and was hanged on a tree. He was last seen retreating into a cave like a coward according to Wikipedia while Zeus was busy with his boyfriend. 

Regardless, he had beer and vikings. And one could say he was hung like a horse.....from a tree...but still hung!

He wins.

Modifié par Dileos, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:05 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

 

And he had his eye plucked out. His beard was taken by Hawke. He was epically PWNED. His nipples were sucked by nugs as seen in this picture. Guess who wins. 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:06 .

[SirOccam]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I don't believe cave men existed. I believe there were tribes and some humans lived in caves once. Last time I saw, cave drawings showed people worshipping a god. If you believe cave men did exist then you have to believe that they weren't as intelligent as us, yet they looked around and decided that something created them. This probably won't convince you but you are entitled to believe what you want.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw Stanley Woo's post after posting this...ignore all of the following if you don't want to hear about real life religions. The point, to tie it back into DA2, is that the Maker didn't necessarily exist because we can't explain some things.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, because it sounds like you're setting me up for a really good insult (which I won't use).

You're saying that if I believe "cave men" existed, then they must have been less intelligent, and yet they believed in a God or gods. As if that's a contradiction.

A lot of early cultures believed in gods. It was a satisfying way to explain the unknown. Why did the sun move across the sky? Well, because Apollo pulled it in his chariot, of course. How can we prevent our fields from drying up and dying? Make more sacrifices to Demeter (or whichever one it was). It's superstition, the same thing responsible for people thinking they have a pair of lucky socks or whatever. I guess the unknown can be scary, and I'm sure such things were comforting. Especially for those early humans, with no scientific knowledge to speak of.

With advances in science, fewer and fewer gods have been necessary to explain things. We found out why the sun seemed to move across the sky. We know to some degree why rivers flood or fields dry up, and we have developed technology to both predict it (weather forecasting) and mitigate it (such as irrigation).

I'm sorry if this offends you, but I believe science still has a long way to go, and God's role will continue to shrink and shrink until maybe, one day, he won't be needed by anyone at all. I do believe that religion is mostly superstition. I don't see much difference in making sacrifices to Demeter to ensure the fertility of your crops and praying to God to heal your tumor. I was brought up Christian, and I always hated the constant "leave it in God's hands" message I was getting. Trouble with finances? Just make sure you're tithing regularly, and then God will give you money! Health problems? Just pray! Oh, what's that? It didn't work? Well you just didn't pray/believe hard enough, or there's some excellent reason out there (which you will never and can never know) for why you should be crippled or ill or whatever. Whatever the reason, it's the same reason babies are born with AIDS. Of course there's a good reason! No need to think about it too much. Obviously there's some reason, because the alternative would be that there's no invisible man in the sky listening to your thoughts, and that's just inconceivable.

Modifié par SirOccam, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[AlexXIV]

Dileos wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...


Okay, we are going off-topic. However, you obviously don't understand that Jesus being nailed to a cross was meant to be. 

Also, Odin had one of his eyes plucked out and was hanged on a tree. He was last seen retreating into a cave like a coward according to Wikipedia while Zeus was busy with his boyfriend. 

Regardless, he had beer and vikings. And one could say he was hung like a horse.....from a tree...but still hung!

He wins.

And Valhalla!