295 réponses à ce sujet

[Dileos]

Herr Uhl wrote...

that is infusing a spirit on a corpse. Not bringing them back to life.

Damn.. I'm almost positive I remember reading something about zombies or something.

....damnit your making me want to start up a new game...

[Xanduin123]

but spirit healers can bring people back to life, cant they? or is that not what youre talking about?

[Herr Uhl]

Dileos wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

that is infusing a spirit on a corpse. Not bringing them back to life.

Damn.. I'm almost positive I remember reading something about zombies or something.

....damnit your making me want to start up a new game...

Well, the spell that summons a skeleton is puppeteering. What the darkspawn necromancers use, I don't know.

But the undead in the game are spirits that possessed corpses.

[GamiSB]

AlexXIV wrote...

No. He said for a fact though that some sort of Maker was worshipped even before the Old Gods.

And some gods were worshiped before YHWH came along but that dose not prove either. Only that at some point a culture worshiped a god they named The Maker. If that god was real is the question and evidence of a culture worshiping it isn't evidence of that god existence.

[AlexXIV]

captain.subtle wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

BTW. Andraste's Ashes were not powered by the Lyrium in the Mountain. That topic is still debatable. They could have been divine.

Well but we don't know what kind of ashes they were. Could have been something that explains the healing abilities and that's not some holy figure of the Chantry.

hmm.. i don't really doubt their origin (Andraste). I just don't know how they got their powers. The Guardian on the temple was most probably Havard the Aegis.

But why don't you doubt it? I mean it is convinient and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually Andraste. But I have nothing that really convinces me.

The Guardian almost told us that he brought the ashes. I have no reason to think he was lying.

I don't really believe these spirits are actually the spirits of those people they represent. I mean why would they all even be there, they didn't all die there, or get buried there.

[Herr Uhl]

Xanduin123 wrote...

but spirit healers can bring people back to life, cant they? or is that not what youre talking about?

They can't. You've probably noticed that your party members don't actually die if they go down and you win the fight.

[Dileos]

Xanduin123 wrote...

but spirit healers can bring people back to life, cant they? or is that not what youre talking about?

It can bring back someone who died recently...and whose corpse is intact.

I'm talking about the phantoms in the Dalish ruins and soldiers peak.

[DMC12]

GamiSB wrote...

DMC12 wrote...

Yeah. The one thing that sells the idea of the Maker existing for me though, is the whole "soul" thing, and how souls can transfer between bodies (Archdemon). I suspect the blood might be the physical link. 

Not necessarily. We don't know how the DA universe works. Things like souls could theoretically just be a part of the natural state that doesn't require the divine to bring about. Something similar to the evolutionary explanation for consciousness and thought.

You have to distance using real world examples within the Dragon Age universe because while similar they are still vastly different. While something like a soul being proven in our world would be fundamentally earth changing in the DA universe where things like magic and the fade exist it would be far less concrete in proving The Maker.

Well of course it'd be a natural state, if there was a god in the natural world of DA. Also, I got the impression that when you're in the fade, that's just another part of your living body, not necessarily your soul. I just went through the fade portion in the Circle Tower as my mage character (I now know why people claim that mages are OP lol), and Nial mentions that your soul goes to the Golden City with the Maker or something when you die, but he wasn't dead yet. That leaves me to believe that if that's true, then there's three parts of the body: the soul, the physical body, and the "dream" body, which makes for an even more complicated world.

But back to the Maker... I'd like the idea of the Maker to remain ambiguous, but at the same time I have a paranoid suspicion that the Maker will appear to us in the same fashion as a Universal theme park ride a la ME2's "Terminator". Or maybe that moment just scarred me too much.

[atheelogos]

"The Maker " Does not exist. At least not the way the chantry describes him/her.

[AlexXIV]

GamiSB wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

No. He said for a fact though that some sort of Maker was worshipped even before the Old Gods.

And some gods were worshiped before YHWH came along but that dose not prove either. Only that at some point a culture worshiped a god they named The Maker. If that god was real is the question and evidence of a culture worshiping it isn't evidence of that god existence.

Yeah there is no such evidence. That's why everyone speculates. These threads would be alot shorter if there was some sort of evidence

[Xanduin123]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xanduin123 wrote...

but spirit healers can bring people back to life, cant they? or is that not what youre talking about?

They can't. You've probably noticed that your party members don't actually die if they go down and you win the fight.

ah yes, i see now, revives unconscious party members, alright.  interesting

[Dileos]

atheelogos wrote...

"The Maker " Does not exist. At least not the way the chantry describes him/her.

More than likely.  The maker seems like he was a totally pure being, his golden home turned into the Black City as soon as the tevinter mages set foot in it.

The Chantry on the other hand, and their representation of the maker just seethes underlying corruption.

For example "Let magic serve man and never rule over him" doesn't translate into "lock the mages in a giant tower and kill anyone except Anders who tries to escape."

Modifié par Dileos, 07 octobre 2010 - 06:55 .

[GamiSB]

AlexXIV wrote...

Yeah there is no such evidence. That's why everyone speculates. These threads would be alot shorter if there was some sort of evidence

Quiet right, the point though is that since there is no evidence then all there is is speculations which can so far not be verified or proven. Thus this is somewhat pointless as fun as it may be.  

[AlexXIV]

GamiSB wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Yeah there is no such evidence. That's why everyone speculates. These threads would be alot shorter if there was some sort of evidence

Quiet right, the point though is that since there is no evidence then all there is is speculations which can so far not be verified or proven. Thus this is somewhat pointless as fun as it may be.  

Well people still always come up with good ideas which make me think 'oh wow I didn't think about that'. I find it inspiring.

[BroBear Berbil]

I don't think spirit healers can bring back anyone who has died, even if it was recent. Pretty sure that once you're dead you pass through the Fade to wherever the Maker is believed to be (and presumably where the Eluvians lead) and that's that. Otherwise, I should have been able to bring back multiple people throughout Origins and Awakening on my mage.



Revival only works on the unconscious. Here's the spell description even

The caster revives fallen party members in 2.5 m sphere area of effect, raising them from unconsciousness and restoring (30+0.3*SP) health.

[DMC12]

atheelogos wrote...

"The Maker " Does not exist. At least not the way the chantry describes him/her.

I definitely agree with that. The Chantry is obviously a pre-Luther era version of corrupt Catholicism, right down to the fact that "payment" to the Chantry is seemingly necessary for salvation.

[GamiSB]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well people still always come up with good ideas which make me think 'oh wow I didn't think about that'. I find it inspiring.

True, but with over a year with little new information the theories all start to sound the same. Most you get these days is minor details about things that don't really change much. Hopefully DA2 sparks new life into the debate with new details.

[Zaku49]

I'm personally sick of this maker and religion in the dragon age world being used to keep fans interested in the franchise. The mysteries of the fade and the maker should be answered hopefully soon. Not a big fan of ferelden and dragon ages current setting in general. I do not want to fight for a land that smells like dog and the people are basically backward barbarians. Zevrans country sounds far more interesting. When I was listening to his tales, I'm thinking man lets leave this **** stain behind bro lol. Stens land also sounds awesome. Good thing DA2 set on a frontier.

[Herr Uhl]

Acharnae wrote...

I'm not disputing that but I remember I was very interested in reading that codex in the circle about what magic can't do. And it did say that magic can't bring people who have died a long time back to life. There was a time frame, it wasn't irrevocably: "can't bring dead back to life". There's a chance I don't remember right but I'd be highly surprised in what concerns that codex entry.

From the "cardinal rules of magic" codex entry:

Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality.

I remember no such thing as you talk about.

[FlintlockJazz]

Let me wade into the god debate. First off, what are we talking about when we say 'god'? In D&D they are pretty much powerful beings that are no all powerful or even the creators of the world but are still called gods, just like the real world greek gods. Therefore, could not spirits in DA not simply be also gods as well? And I don't mean masquerade as gods, but 'be' gods in the actual sense of the word? How about dragons? The uber powerful High Dragons that are supposedly Old Dragons seem immensely powerful, and we know beings have a soul in Dragon Age for a fact since the soul of the archdemon moves into new hosts and explodes when sucked into a gray warden and comes into contact with their soul.



We need to define what we are talking about here folks when we say god, just sayin'.

[GamiSB]

g

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Let me wade into the god debate. First off, what are we talking about when we say 'god'? In D&D they are pretty much powerful beings that are no all powerful or even the creators of the world but are still called gods, just like the real world greek gods. Therefore, could not spirits in DA not simply be also gods as well? And I don't mean masquerade as gods, but 'be' gods in the actual sense of the word? How about dragons? The uber powerful High Dragons that are supposedly Old Dragons seem immensely powerful, and we know beings have a soul in Dragon Age for a fact since the soul of the archdemon moves into new hosts and explodes when sucked into a gray warden and comes into contact with their soul.

We need to define what we are talking about here folks when we say god, just sayin'.

The title already does that. The discussion is over if or if not The Maker exist. Word play trying to define god is pointless as we already have an established definition for the being in question.

[Herr Uhl]

Acharnae wrote...

Yep, that's the codex. Well from reading it, that's the idea that remained in my mind. It says a dead person can be brought back to life even after they are not breathing and their heart has stopped beating (doesn't talk about cerebral death, true ) so in a way they are already dead and you can bring them back to life... for a while (while their spirit is still there)

Well, I usually don't think of people that can be revived by natural means as being truly dead.