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Why Neverwinter Nights 2 is Similar to Dragon Age


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#1
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Is it just me or is Dragon Age essentially a glorified and highly polished version of the Neverwinter Nights 2 Obsidian Entertainment gave us?

Now I don't work at,  nor am I affiliated with Obsidian Ent. - but I would be pretty annoyed that Bioware have essentially taken their main narrative and party member templates and repackaged it and marketed it extensively to enjoy overwhelming success they did not truly deserve.

The NWN2 story follows the journey of an orphaned adventurer [see Origin stories] gathering a combined army of Dwarves, Lizardmen and Humans [see Grey Warden treaty signatures] to defeat the threat posed by an ancient, evil spirit known as the King of Shadows. [see Archdemon and the Blight]

The first part of the game is set in the small Sword Coast village of
West Harbor [Ostagar], which was the site of a battle between an evil host led by an
entity known as the "King of Shadows" and the warriors aligned with
Neverwinter [see Battle of Ostagar] which ends in disaster. You are henceforth one of the sole survivors [see last of the Grey Wardens].

A warlock named Ammon Jerro seemingly appears to be the main threat and appears to be actively working against you. After tracking down Ammon Jerro, it is revealed he is actually after the destruction of the King of Shadows and after inadvertently slaying
his descendant Shandra [similarities to King Calian?] he repents and joins the party [see Loghain].

United with the other races and nations - the King of Shadows army is repelled - with the aid of Neverwinter's historic enemy Luskan [see paranoia over Orlais] and the group finally confronts the Archdemon in his citadel. I mean King of Shadows...

Party members include!
Bevil Starling / Alistair

Bevil is one of the PC's friends in West Harbor and is available as
a henchman in the first Act during the excursion into the Swamps. He
later joins the PC at Crossroad Keep as a sergeant.

Bishop / Sten

Bishop is merciless, backstabbing, homicidal and mistrustful. All of
these characteristics stem from his troubled childhood in Luskan, where
he burned an entire village down in an act of defiance and impulse [Sten's sword and the slaying of the children]. Although irreparably destructive, Bishop has a certain
corsair mercenary likeness about him. He was initially planned as a
romance option for female PCs but eventually this was deleted.

Construct / Shale

If the PC decided to go back and fetch this heap of scrap metal and
have Grobnar fix it up, the construct becomes a strong fighter henchman
in the last two Acts of the game.

Khelgar Ironfist / Oghren


Is a dwarven fighter and the first major companion the player encounters. He is a fighting fanatic who also has a storyline where he must reconcile with his clan after they
resent him for his putting his love of fighting before the clan. [Branka anyone?] Great as he may be in a fight, Khelgar's heart is pure gold and his
oddball quest to dedicate himself to the life of a monk hints at deeper
things going on inside that thick, bearded skull.

Elanee / Morrigan

Elanee is a wood elf druid - a witch of the wilds - who joins the PC's party upon leaving Fort
Locke. She is also the only available romance option for male PCs.

Neeshka / Leliana


Is a tiefling rogue who is one of the companions available in the
game. She is the second one to be encountered where she has to be
rescued from a group of soldiers who have attacked her due to her
tiefling [Orlais] heritage. When in Neverwinter she competes against a former
associate [Marjolaine anyone?] who hates her for stealing his money.

Sand / Wynne

Sand is a wise, but cynical eladrin moon elf wizard who owns a magic shop down by the docks in Neverwinter.
He is a knowledge-seeker and is very interested in finding ancient
relics and artifacts he can study and learn more from. He is a powerful
and well-trained wizard, which causes him to often butt heads with
Qara, who insults all wizards who have to study and read books in order
to learn magic. Provides advice and counsel to the player character.

Ammon Jerro / Loghain

Ammon found out about
the Illefarn guardian, and what it had become, and what it was going to
do to all of Abeir-Toril [Ferelden]. He cut all ties with his family and friends,
immersed himself in years of study and training in order to better face
the Illefarn construct gone awry. In completely losing himself to
zealous training and searching for powerful allies, items, and
henchmen, mainly of the demonic sort, he loses bits and pieces of his
humanity and soul [Loghain again...], until he becomes a single-minded weapon favouring
isolation, ruthlesness and efficiency. Ammon Jerro will do what he
thinks needs be done in the most expedient way possible, without regard
to loss of life or other (in his mind) miscelania. He is there to
destroy the King of Shadows [archdemon] and protect Neverwinter at any cost [Ferelden], everything else fades.

Modifié par Elithranduil, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:09 .


#2
Nazo

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Mm, I dunno. I see the similarities too, but DA was in development for a loooong time. I am guessing they had most of the plot elements in place by the time NWN2 came out. I think it just so happens that 'Go forth and gather an army' is a pretty useful trope for a non-linear game.

#3
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Nazo wrote...

Mm, I dunno. I see the similarities too, but DA was in development for a loooong time. I am guessing they had most of the plot elements in place by the time NWN2 came out. I think it just so happens that 'Go forth and gather an army' is a pretty useful trope for a non-linear game.


I suppose so. I just can't shake the feeling that Bioware completely lifted concepts from Obsidian. Perhaps it was the other way around.

Curious to hear what others think.

#4
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Whoa, a traditional fantasy setting/story is similar to another traditional fantasy setting/story?!?

NO. WAI.

Modifié par Crawling_Chaos, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:13 .


#5
DaeFaron

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"The first part of the game is set in the small Sword Coast village of

West Harbor [Ostagar], which was the site of a battle between an evil host led by an

entity known as the "King of Shadows" and the warriors aligned with

Neverwinter [see Battle of Ostagar] which ends in disaster. You are henceforth one of the sole survivors [see last of the Grey Wardens]."



Difference, in that battle you were...a BABY. Not last of a highly skilled order.

#6
Kozuka78

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there are a huge number of similarities between the DA story and the NWN2 story, and dare I say it, the NWN2 story is FAR superior.



The very first major event of NWN2 is your village is attacked by a horde of demons/monsters/whatever. Virtually identicle to ostagar, it paves the way for the entire story.



Just like Dragon age, you must do the whole 'travel to 4 areas' quest in an effort to recruit an army to defeat the darksp...sorry king of shadows.



There is even a landsmeet style scene where you have to persuade the kingdom onto your side. (I **** you not its virtually identicle).



The main difference is the NWN2 story is actually alot longer, has many more intermediate areas between the whole 'travel to four areas' thing. The fact you get to build your own fort is pretty awesome, the class system is much more advanced since it uses DnD3.5 instead of biowares cookie cutter version of it, and in general its a much deeper game. The character development isnt quite as fundamental but thats the only area dragon age comes out on top.



If NWN2 was remade with the dragon age engine, it would kick the living poo out of the dragon age we currently know.




#7
Sloth Of Doom

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I think you are REALLY stretching most of those points.

#8
addiction21

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Neither game has waffles....





















Thats a bad thing.

#9
Ghandorian

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Sloth Of Doom wrote...

I think you are REALLY stretching most of those points.

I wonder how much time they actually spent on that!

do you think it was worth it?

#10
DaeFaron

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How long does NWN2 campaign take? I mean inworld time.



Dragon age takes maybe a year.

#11
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Kozuka78 wrote...

There is even a landsmeet style scene where you have to persuade the kingdom onto your side. (I **** you not its virtually identicle).


WOW! I totally forgot about the Landsmeet bit! It even ends in a trial by combat in BOTH games! It plays out exactly the same. I can't believe I missed this.

Dear lord. Maybe we are onto something.

#12
Kozuka78

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Im clearly not the only one who thought that the DA story was basically lifted straight out of NWN2 anyway. Its something thats been bugging me since I completed my first play through. Obsidian really did outdo bioware on this one.

#13
Elanareon

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You are blind and narrow-minded if you think that. You all took them at face value. EX: Morrigan has nothing alike Elanee!

#14
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DaeFaron wrote...

How long does NWN2 campaign take? I mean inworld time.

Dragon age takes maybe a year.


I think a very similar timeframe. There is a flash forward in time where you start investing in better fortifications/weapons/armor for your Greycloak soldiers and prepare your army for war.

Modifié par Elithranduil, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:23 .


#15
KirbySkywalker

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well they are both rpgs, in that sense they are similar, but i have played both and thats about the only way.

#16
DaeFaron

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Also, a druid is in no way like a witch of the wilds IMO.

#17
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Or maybe it's because it's all part of a formula that Bioware has pretty much been using since NWN or so?  Obviously Obsidian basically kept this formula when they developed the sequels (for the most part).

Go around get party members, go collect clues/army/whatever from various locales, have a meeting to discuss things after everything is collected, fight the last boss man.

Modifié par Crawling_Chaos, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:25 .


#18
Kozuka78

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The number of one line replies rushing to the cause of dragon age in this debate can only mean one thing. The OP is actually right and the fanboys have put on their armour.

Ahaha I forgot the soldiers are even called 'Grey Cloaks'

Modifié par Kozuka78, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:25 .


#19
KirbySkywalker

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i started to read your post but once i realized it said "glorified" and not "glory hole" i stopped.

#20
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DaeFaron wrote...

Also, a druid is in no way like a witch of the wilds IMO.


Elanee is a social outcast who is far more comfortable hanging around in the wilds using druidic SHAPESHIFTING MAGIC. There is even a quest for her to go back and confront her druidic masters/family who engage in evil magic to preserve the forest [see the Flemeth grimoire questline]

Can you not see the blatant similarities?

#21
DaeFaron

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Heh, so because we don't type a 3 page essay about it, we must be blind fanboys....thats new.

Edit: hmm, lets see becuase I never completed the game nor got that far into it. The difference between a Witch of the Wilds and a druid in my opinion.

Witch of the wilds: Generally doesn't interact with people at all, lots of tales about their magic and evil stuff.
Druid: Generally tends to their groves, will help travellers and is usually known to heal the woods and help out people such as farmers having a bad time with crops.

Modifié par DaeFaron, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:29 .


#22
Brother Pain

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addiction21 wrote...

Neither game has waffles....


My first game did actually, since that's what I called Dog :)

#23
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DaeFaron wrote...

Heh, so because we don't type a 3 page essay about it, we must be blind fanboys....thats new.

Edit: hmm, lets see becuase I never completed the game nor got that far into it. The difference between a Witch of the Wilds and a druid in my opinion.

Witch of the wilds: Generally doesn't interact with people at all, lots of tales about their magic and evil stuff.
Druid: Generally tends to their groves, will help travellers and is usually known to heal the woods and help out people such as farmers having a bad time with crops.


At least you are honest. Trust me - play through the game and the similarities will REALLY jump out at you. Plus it's a really good game with a really cool party member influence point system.

#24
Niten Ryu

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Good post. I agree.

#25
Kozuka78

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Lets look at why NWN2 is better.



The landsmeet vs the trial



Gathering support for the landsmeet

Go to two areas (which are geographically right next to each other), speak to two nobles in a tavern, select about 3 dialogue options with loghain and assuming you completed all the previous mentioned steps, you win and fight loghain in trial by combat.



Gathering Support at the Trial

Go to atleast four areas, gather evidence and witnesses to support your cause and persuade them (yes, not just talk to them, actually convince them) to aid your cause. Proceed with the event, where you must call fourth witnesses and examples of evidence which you have now gathered, aswell as cross examine the oppositions evidence. the dialogue involved is extensive and your choices can drastically effect the outcome.



Once you reach the trial by combat stage, you must first wait one day and prepare for the battle. A huge event is called and an arena assembled. Spectators watch from the stands as you battle the enemies champion.



In conclusion, they are two very similar events that occur at an almost identical point in the story. The difference is that the NWN2 version of the event is alot longer, handles it with greater depth, and generally puts more detail into the entire thing,