155 réponses à ce sujet

[Elanareon]

Kozuka78 wrote...

The number of one line replies rushing to the cause of dragon age in this debate can only mean one thing. The OP is actually right and the fanboys have put on their armour.

Ahaha I forgot the soldiers are even called 'Grey Cloaks'

You see? Blind and narrow-minded. Grey Cloaks = Grey Wardens.... What has the world come into?

[DaeFaron]

Elithranduil wrote...

DaeFaron wrote...

Heh, so because we don't type a 3 page essay about it, we must be blind fanboys....thats new.

Edit: hmm, lets see becuase I never completed the game nor got that far into it. The difference between a Witch of the Wilds and a druid in my opinion.

Witch of the wilds: Generally doesn't interact with people at all, lots of tales about their magic and evil stuff.
Druid: Generally tends to their groves, will help travellers and is usually known to heal the woods and help out people such as farmers having a bad time with crops.

At least you are honest. Trust me - play through the game and the similarities will REALLY jump out at you. Plus it's a really good game with a really cool party member influence point system.

I wanted to complete it, but the computer with my saved games, it my brother's labtop and he is half-way across the country most of the year, and it bugged concerning all gaming.

I've been wanting to get my computer to be able to run it simply to play through it.

[Zibon]

This doesn't really belong on this forum due to spoilers. Anyway, the ending area/circumstances of MotB and DA are nearly identical.

[Kozuka78]

Im thinking of writing a novel called 'Master of the Necklace'. Its about 2 midgets who have to take an enchanted pendent to the top of a giant mountain, and throw it into a massive lake found at the centre. By doing so they banish all evil from the land and everyone lives happily ever afters. Theres wizards, elves, humans, orcs (but they arnt really orcs they are called 'farlock's). A bunch of stuff happens in between like going through an old mine and getting lost in a forest.

Pretty original plot I think, I hope no one notices the similarities to existing work...


Dont get me wrong. Nevewinter Nights 2 has some glaring faults. It was unstable at release, it had some horrible bugs in it that could potentially break your game, and graphically it was too intense for most systems. The performance was truly awful, truly truly bad. From a techinical sense Dragon Age is superior in ever way.

But the NWN2 story was definately better, and DA feels alittle cheap in its similarities.

Modifié par Kozuka78, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:40 .

[DaeFaron]

Then again, Tolkien did change the way fantasy was viewed when he wrote the Hobbit..

[Murdario]

you have to be a completely delusional bioware fanboy to not recognize the insane amount of similarities between these to games. i really cannot even fathom the level of self deception it takes for a person to get defensive about this and deny that its not true.



and yes, now that i played through both games couple of times, nwn2 is better. even without motb. character creation and game rules are much more diverse and deeper and nwn2 did almost exactly the same story better and before. only thing dao has over nwn2 is slightly more advanced game engine.

[kevinwastaken]

There will never be a fresh and interesting RPG story, get used to it. DAO is a pretty good cliché though.

[Solo80]

Elithranduil wrote...

Sand / Wynne

Sand is a wise, but cynical eladrin moon elf wizard who owns a magic shop down by the docks in Neverwinter.
He is a knowledge-seeker and is very interested in finding ancient
relics and artifacts he can study and learn more from. He is a powerful
and well-trained wizard, which causes him to often butt heads with
Qara, who insults all wizards who have to study and read books in order
to learn magic. Provides advice and counsel to the player character.

OK, I think you're generally really stretching the similarities, but this one really put it over the top. Sand is a wise-cracking, arrogant SOB with a chip on his shoulder. Funniest character in the game, mind, but nothing like Wynne in any way, shape or form, except they're both spellcasters.

Also, Morrigan resembles Qara a lot more than the druidess, but then the hot-headed (and hot ) young spellcaster isn't exactly an Obsidian invention.

There are certain similarities, sure, but that's more due to the setting than actual plagiarism, I think. It's like claiming GTA: San Andreas ripped off "Training Day", or GTA IV ripped off "Eastern Promises" (yeah, I play GTA and high fantasy games - so, sue me )

Take both games for what they are, and play both if you can. They're both excellent games in their own right.

[Murdario]

yes, they are both excellent games. do you know why? because they are the same goddamn game!

[Pennoyer]

The fantasy genre is full of rehashed characters.

[Sloth Of Doom]

[quote]Elithranduil wrote...
The NWN2 story follows the journey of an orphaned adventurer [see Origin stories] gathering a combined army of Dwarves, Lizardmen and Humans [see Grey Warden treaty signatures] to defeat the threat posed by an ancient, evil spirit known as the King of Shadows. [see Archdemon and the Blight][/quote]

Orphaned adventurer meets -maybe- one of the origins, and in that one you are hardly some poor mud-town orphan.  Assembling allies is a keystone to most RPGs, NWN2 hardly invented it.

[quote]The first part of the game is set in the small Sword Coast village of
West Harbor [Ostagar], which was the site of a battle between an evil host led by an
entity known as the "King of Shadows" and the warriors aligned with
Neverwinter [see Battle of Ostagar] which ends in disaster. You are henceforth one of the sole survivors [see last of the Grey Wardens].[/quote]
A small villiage with a population of under 50 that is attacked by a couple dozen enemies is in no way the same as an ancient fortress where a king has assembled his army to fight off thousands of darkspawn.  This comparison is utterly ridiculous.

[quote]A warlock named Ammon Jerro seemingly appears to be the main threat and appears to be actively working against you. After tracking down Ammon Jerro, it is revealed he is actually after the destruction of the King of Shadows and after inadvertently slaying his descendant Shandra [similarities to King Calian?] he repents and joins the party [see Loghain].[/quote]
Again...really stretching it.  Shandra has practicaly nothing in common with Calain nor does Jerro have anything in common with Loghain.  You are comparing an ancient warlock seeking to destroy the main enemy with a powermongering general who is position to take control of a country.  Although Loghain may have good intentions (debateable) his actions do't mirror those of Jerro at all.

[quote]United with the other races and nations - the King of Shadows army is repelled - with the aid of Neverwinter's historic enemy Luskan [see paranoia over Orlais] and the group finally confronts the Archdemon in his citadel. I mean King of Shadows...[/quote]
Orlais didn't help Ferelden.  the Archdeon is nothing like the king of Shadows unless you just want to say 'all evil things are the same'   Both of these points are crap.

[quote]Party members include!
Bevil Starling / Alistair

Bevil is one of the PC's friends in West Harbor and is available as
a henchman in the first Act during the excursion into the Swamps. He
later joins the PC at Crossroad Keep as a sergeant.[/quote]
Bevil is a rather timid, useless coward from a crap town who you have to drag kicking and screaming everywhere.  Alistair is smartass and an accomplished warrior trained by the church.  He is more than willing to take up the fight and his background is nothing like Bevi's.   I guess they are similar because they are both warriors?

[quote]Bishop / Sten
Bishop is merciless, backstabbing, homicidal and mistrustful. All ofthese characteristics stem from his troubled childhood in Luskan, wherehe burned an entire village down in an act of defiance and impulse [Sten's sword and the slaying of the children]. Although irreparably destructive, Bishop has a certain corsair mercenary likeness about him. He was initially planned as a romance option for female PCs but eventually this was deleted. [/quote]
Bishop and Sten?  Ok they have both killed people....end of similarities.

[quote]Construct / Shale
If the PC decided to go back and fetch this heap of scrap metal and have Grobnar fix it up, the construct becomes a strong fighter henchman in the last two Acts of the game.[/quote]
Well, they are both inanimate, I'll give you that.  Other than that they have practicaly nothing in cmmon, Shale has one of the most richly deveoped personalits and histries in DA, the construct is a boring hunk of metal.

[quote]Khelgar Ironfist / Oghren

Is a dwarven fighter and the first major companion the player encounters. He is a fighting fanatic who also has a storyline where he must reconcile with his clan after they resent him for his putting his love of fighting before the clan. [Branka anyone?] Great as he may be in a fight, Khelgar's heart is pure gold and his oddball quest to dedicate himself to the life of a monk hints at deeper things going on inside that thick, bearded skull.[/quote]
Ok they are both Dwarves. sure.  But did you just compare becming a drunk because you lost your wife to a ad quest and nobody will help you find her t.....wanting to learn how to fight like a monk?  Come ON.

[quote]Elanee / Morrigan
Elanee is a wood elf druid - a witch of the wilds - who joins the PC's party upon leaving Fort Locke. She is also the only available romance option for male PCs.[/quote]
These two are similar in the fact that they are both femae and both use magic of some sort.   Hell, they can both shapechange.   Thier personalities are polar oppsites and thier roles in the story have no bearing on one another.  Yu could say that Morrigan is a ripoff of any female caster in any story and find as much in common as you can with these two.

[quote]Neeshka / Leliana

Is a tiefling rogue who is one of the companions available in the game. She is the second one to be encountered where she has to be rescued from a group of soldiers who have attacked her due to her tiefling [Orlais] heritage. When in Neverwinter she competes against a former associate [Marjolaine anyone?] who hates her for stealing his money.[/quote]
So...being from another country is just like having the blood of dmons eh?  They are both female rogues.  End of similarities.  The background comparisons are crap, Neeshka activey seeks out an ex rival to prove herself the better thief.  That isn't even cse to what happens with Leli.

[quote]Sand / Wynne

Sand is a wise, but cynical eladrin moon elf wizard who owns a magic shop down by the docks in Neverwinter.
He is a knowledge-seeker and is very interested in finding ancient relics and artifacts he can study and learn more from. He is a powerful and well-trained wizard, which causes him to often butt heads with Qara, who insults all wizards who have to study and read books in order to learn magic. Provides advice and counsel to the player character.[/quote]
These two are the closest comparisons you have made so far.  Ignoring the fact that thier personalities are, again, almost competely opposite, they are both in fact mages who help the player.

[quote]Ammon Jerro / Loghain

Ammon found out aboutthe Illefarn guardian, and what it had become, and what it was going to do to all of Abeir-Toril [Ferelden]. He cut all ties with his family and friends, immersed himself in years of study and training in order to better face the Illefarn construct gone awry. In completely losing himself to zealous training and searching for powerful allies, items, and henchmen, mainly of the demonic sort, he loses bits and pieces of his humanity and soul [Loghain again...], until he becomes a single-minded weapon favouring isolation, ruthlesness and efficiency. Ammon Jerro will do what he thinks needs be done in the most expedient way possible, without regard
to loss of life or other (in his mind) miscelania. He is there to destroy the King of Shadows [archdemon] and protect Neverwinter at any cost [Ferelden], everything else fades.[/quote]
You just compared both Aber-Toril (a planet) AND Neverwinter (a city) with fereldan (a country).  So apparently fereldan is just like....anything that is a place.   Also, Loghain never loses any of his humanity or soul, he makes some ruthless decisions that come back to bite him in the ass.

So, as i said above (but peple decided to whine anyways) i think you are really stretching your comparisons  based on how far apart these comparisn ae, i could say that the story fr DA:O was stolen directly frm almost anything

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:55 .

[Zibon]

Solo80 wrote...
There are certain similarities, sure, but that's more due to the setting than actual plagiarism, I think. It's like claiming GTA: San Andreas ripped off "Training Day", or GTA IV ripped off "Eastern Promises"

No, it's nothing like that.  Games have always been inspired by movies (and literature.)  Baldur's Gate 2 and NWN2 actually DO take place in the same setting and they are completely different.

Though I do disagree with the OP's character comparisons.  Their alignments are basically completely different across the board.

Modifié par Zibon, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:56 .

[jackkel dragon]

Sloth of Doom has it right.



The only thing in the comparison that makes sense is Jerro/Loghain. They both seem to be the villain until late in the game, and then try to make amends. They also have detailed histories compared to other companions. (But Loghain's is hidden in a novel.)



Also, NWN2 is a lot more linear, and the ally gathering isn't until the last "act" of the game.



I'm tired of Forgotten Realms because I have seen it so much, and it seems (even though it might not be) like a ripoff of multiple fantasy settings combined. (D+D doesn't need to be original to be fun.) Thedas is new to me, and therefore cool. And Bioware takes the "generic" non-linear fantasy story and hides it pretty well. (Obsidian is great, but not the same.)



Side Note: NWN2 actually had one better aspect in my mind: a decent companion quest. Khelgar can tell the PC his dream early on, but the quest can't be completed until the third act. His story is integrated into the plot (even though that part is linear.) In DAO, we get this:



- Companion Approval High: Start Quest

- Talk to someone -> Talk to Companion (Possible fight)

- The End



I like DAO better because its new, it runs better, and I can really get into it. NWN2 has great action and dialog, but no new story and few interesting, developed characters. DAO has minor characters with more backstory than companions in NWN2. Then there's the new world, and the codex to teach the history/culture of this new place. And, as I said before, BioWare does a good job at making "old" things look new.

[nisallik]

[quote]Elithranduil wrote...


The NWN2 story follows the journey of an orphaned adventurer [see Origin stories] gathering a combined army of Dwarves, Lizardmen and Humans [see Grey Warden treaty signatures] to defeat the threat posed by an ancient, evil spirit known as the King of Shadows. [see Archdemon and the Blight]

[/quote]

Really stretching this... 

King of Shadows was a guardian
created by the Illefarn to protect their empire, when Karsus try to
steal Mystra's divinity the weave stopped.  King of Shadows took up the
Shadow Weave to continue living and at that point became evil.

The
First Blight began when mages from Tevinter tried to enter the Golden
City in the fade, which turned the city black and they were casted back
down to Thedas as Dark Spawn.  The Dark Spawn can hear music which
continues to ring in their heads until they locate and corrupt an Old
God, which will become an Arch Demon.

[quote]

The first part of the game is set in the small Sword Coast village of
West Harbor [Ostagar], which was the site of a battle between an evil host led by an
entity known as the "King of Shadows" and the warriors aligned with
Neverwinter [see Battle of Ostagar] which ends in disaster. You are henceforth one of the sole survivors [see last of the Grey Wardens].

[/quote]

That isn't similar at all.

[quote]
A warlock named Ammon Jerro seemingly appears to be the main threat and appears to be actively working against you. After tracking down Ammon Jerro, it is revealed he is actually after the destruction of the King of Shadows and after inadvertently slaying
his descendant Shandra [similarities to King Calian?] he repents and joins the party [see Loghain].
[/quote]

Ammon Jerro only seemed to be a threat, because from the lack of information the PC/Companions they assumed Ammon Jerro was actually the King of Shadows.  No similarities between Shandra and King Cailan, since King Cailan was backstabbed and Shandra was just assumed as an enemy freeing Ammon Jerro's devil/demons.

[quote]
Party members include!
Bevil Starling / Alistair

Bevil is one of the PC's friends in West Harbor and is available as
a henchman in the first Act during the excursion into the Swamps. He
later joins the PC at Crossroad Keep as a sergeant.
[/quote]

No.

[quote]
Bishop / Sten

Bishop is merciless, backstabbing, homicidal and mistrustful. All of
these characteristics stem from his troubled childhood in Luskan, where
he burned an entire village down in an act of defiance and impulse [Sten's sword and the slaying of the children]. Although irreparably destructive, Bishop has a certain
corsair mercenary likeness about him. He was initially planned as a
romance option for female PCs but eventually this was deleted.
[/quote]

Sten is not evil and he regretted his actions he took then.  Quanari live and die by their sword, which I'm not going to get into more detail since it would be a spoiler.

Bishop is just chaotic evil (stupid evil).

[quote]
Construct / Shale

If the PC decided to go back and fetch this heap of scrap metal and
have Grobnar fix it up, the construct becomes a strong fighter henchman
in the last two Acts of the game.
[/quote]

No.

[quote]

Khelgar Ironfist / Oghren

Is a dwarven fighter and the first major companion the player encounters. He is a fighting fanatic who also has a storyline where he must reconcile with his clan after they
resent him for his putting his love of fighting before the clan. [Branka anyone?] Great as he may be in a fight, Khelgar's heart is pure gold and his
oddball quest to dedicate himself to the life of a monk hints at deeper
things going on inside that thick, bearded skull.

[/quote]
No.

[quote].
Elanee / Morrigan

Elanee is a wood elf druid - a witch of the wilds - who joins the PC's party upon leaving Fort
Locke. She is also the only available romance option for male PCs.
[/quote]

Elanee is a creepy, clingy stalker.  Eww.... so No.

[quote]

Neeshka / Leliana

Is a tiefling rogue who is one of the companions available in the
game. She is the second one to be encountered where she has to be
rescued from a group of soldiers who have attacked her due to her
tiefling [Orlais] heritage. When in Neverwinter she competes against a former
associate [Marjolaine anyone?] who hates her for stealing his money.
[/quote]

Wow... No! Next time if you play Dragon Age, you should pay attention more.

[quote]

Sand / Wynne

Sand is a wise, but cynical eladrin moon elf wizard who owns a magic shop down by the docks in Neverwinter.
He is a knowledge-seeker and is very interested in finding ancient
relics and artifacts he can study and learn more from. He is a powerful
and well-trained wizard, which causes him to often butt heads with
Qara, who insults all wizards who have to study and read books in order
to learn magic. Provides advice and counsel to the player character.
[/quote]

I can see some similarities between Sand and Wynne, though only because of advice they give.

[quote]
Ammon Jerro / Loghain

Ammon found out about
the Illefarn guardian, and what it had become, and what it was going to
do to all of Abeir-Toril [Ferelden]. He cut all ties with his family and friends,
immersed himself in years of study and training in order to better face
the Illefarn construct gone awry. In completely losing himself to
zealous training and searching for powerful allies, items, and
henchmen, mainly of the demonic sort, he loses bits and pieces of his
humanity and soul [Loghain again...], until he becomes a single-minded weapon favouring
isolation, ruthlesness and efficiency. Ammon Jerro will do what he
thinks needs be done in the most expedient way possible, without regard
to loss of life or other (in his mind) miscelania. He is there to
destroy the King of Shadows [archdemon] and protect Neverwinter at any cost [Ferelden], everything else fades.
[/quote]

No, Loghain could careless about the Blight.  His problem is solely with King Cailan wanting Orlais Chevaliers to enter Ferelden.

[nisallik]

Elithranduil wrote...

Khelgar and Oghren are so similar you shouldn't have to even debate it. Go play the game again.

Maybe you should play the game again.  The only similarities between them is that they are dwarves.