735 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Shadowfang12 wrote...
OK I know this next part is a little off topic but it annoys the crap out of me when I see a topic that insults the direction of DA2 and Bioware locks it.

I've never seen one of those locked threads yet that wasn't locked for a blatant TOS violation.

You left out the part where its generally steered off topic by those who rather than debate changes, go into the "define an rpg" defense.

That's going off-topic, though, that's not BioWare locking the thread because something bad about DA2 is being said. So, yeah, it is an TOS violation.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 09 octobre 2010 - 09:14 .

[Da_Lion_Man]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
IMO BioWare's fandom is just like any fandom full of crap:?.

Two of the three other boards I frequent:  Paradox Interactive (Victora 2, Europa Universalis III) and Sports Interactive (Football Manager) - are much more civil and even-keeled than Bioware's.

However the TW Center (for Creative Assembly's Total War series) is basically the same, although there I'm part of the bitter reactionary contingent, as are most people.  Yet we're all interested in Shogun 2: Total War.  Such is the way of things, it seems.

I also like how some people (talking about forums in general) dismiss your opinion by saying "you have low standards" even if they have no clue about you. This can make you look like a jerk. =/

Modifié par Da_Lion_Man, 09 octobre 2010 - 09:20 .

[JrayM16]

unoriginal thread is unoriginal

[AlanC9]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Two of the three other boards I frequent:  Paradox Interactive (Victora 2, Europa Universalis III) and Sports Interactive (Football Manager) - are much more civil and even-keeled than Bioware's.

I recall the Paradox boards getting awfully hostile for a while after HoI3 came out, actually. For similar reasons, as it happens. Hoi3 was polarizing in the same manner as ME2 was.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:39 .

[upsettingshorts]

AlanC9 wrote...
I recall the Paradox boards getting awfully hostile for a while after HoI3 came out, actually. For similar reasons, as it happens.

Could be, but I wasn't there at the time.  Currently though, it's pretty nice.

The TW Center boards weren't always so bitter and reactionary as I describe them as being now, either.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:40 .

[AtreiyaN7]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Shadowfang12 wrote...
OK I know this next part is a little off topic but it annoys the crap out of me when I see a topic that insults the direction of DA2 and Bioware locks it.

I've never seen one of those locked threads yet that wasn't locked for a blatant TOS violation.

You left out the part where its generally steered off topic by those who rather than debate changes, go into the "define an rpg" defense.

You forgot the part where the strident martinets then proceed to insist that their militant definition of what makes an RPG is the only acceptable definition of an RPG. And then they go on to insult anyone who's not like-minded, oftentimes by playing the "let's insult console players and blame every single change we don't like on them" card, etc.

The threads don't get shut down because of negativity towards BioWare. They tend to get shut down because people inevitably start flaming each other and because things get acrimonious (kind of like the last five-six pages or so where things started veering off into politics until people were warned about it).

Visit the TOR forums - they allow a lot of completely idiotic threads to remain open that are hostile/negative/blatantly trollish  (or well-deservedly roll them over into existing threads). Even I am not without my guilty moments in the TOR forums, but I try pretty hard to stay away from insulting anyone (unless they're obvious  trolls, and then I can't help myself on occasion, so my sarcasm can get a little more...harsh  ).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:43 .

[errend]

dbankier wrote...

errend wrote...

Well damn they reduced the number of ally you have at each time,three wasent enought now we have two hell we should have been able to taketeh whole god damn party but nooo console cant take such a big party so they are making this a console hack n slash with a bit of rpg just like mass effect 2 was a shooter with a bit of rpg.

Not true. You can still have a party of four.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Like Origins, you can take a party of four characters (Hawke + 3 more) into combat.

Well you beat me there but from the vid i have seen its still going to be more of an hack n slash game then an rpg true the old combat system was messy but still id hate to see dragon age 2 become a hack n slash for console player

[upsettingshorts]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
You forgot the part where the strident martinets then proceed to insist that their militant definition of what makes an RPG is the only acceptable definition of an RPG. And then they go on to insult anyone who's not not like-minded, oftentimes by playing the "let's insult console players and blame every single change we don't like on them" card, etc.

The threads don't get shut down because of negativity towards BioWare. They tend to get shut down because people inevitably start flaming each other and because things get acrimonious (kind of like the last five-six pages or so where things started veering off into politics until people were warned about it).

Visit the TOR forums - they allow a lot of completely idiotic threads to remain open that are hostile/negative/blatantly trollish  (or well-deservedly roll them over into existing threads). Even I am not without my guilty moments in the TOR forums, but I try pretty hard to stay away from insulting anyone (unless they're obvious  trolls, and then I can't help myself on occasion, so my sarcasm can get a little more...harsh  ).

Heh, I deliberately avoid the TOR forums.  I made one thread that reflected my views and bailed, because I would have become something of a really irritating broken record.  I'm totally a reactionary when it comes to the idea of a Star Wars MMO.  

Granted, I didn't live up to the promise that I'd be on the forums offering input because I discovered rather quickly that all my input would have basically been "more like pre-CU SWG!"

But yeah, threads get locked because they get sidetracked and run off topic, or because they're redundant, or because they're spam, not because they're negative.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:46 .

[Morroian]

tmp7704 wrote...

Actually wonder, is it really? Can't find much hard data regarding that, but what's available -- 1.6 mil units sold vs over 6.5 mil shipped in similar timeframe -- suggests the expectations were much higher than how well the game actually did. The title is also hardly ever mentioned in EA's financial reports available to date, even though older reports positioned it as "first blockbuster title of 2010".

There appears to be very little actual sales data published such that it is impossible to draw any concluion either way.

[Dave of Canada]

errend wrote...

Well you beat me there but from the vid i have seen its still going to be more of an hack n slash game then an rpg true the old combat system was messy but still id hate to see dragon age 2 become a hack n slash for console player

The video looks like the same thing as Origins (to me), just faster and without the shuffle. I don't see how that's like a hack and slash.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Shadowfang12 wrote...
OK I know this next part is a little off topic but it annoys the crap out of me when I see a topic that insults the direction of DA2 and Bioware locks it.

I've never seen one of those locked threads yet that wasn't locked for a blatant TOS violation.

You left out the part where its generally steered off topic by those who rather than debate changes, go into the "define an rpg" defense.

You forgot the part where the strident martinets then proceed to insist that their militant definition of what makes an RPG is the only acceptable definition of an RPG. And then they go on to insult anyone who's not like-minded, oftentimes by playing the "let's insult console players and blame every single change we don't like on them" card, etc.

The threads don't get shut down because of negativity towards BioWare. They tend to get shut down because people inevitably start flaming each other and because things get acrimonious (kind of like the last five-six pages or so where things started veering off into politics until people were warned about it).

Visit the TOR forums - they allow a lot of completely idiotic threads to remain open that are hostile/negative/blatantly trollish  (or well-deservedly roll them over into existing threads). Even I am not without my guilty moments in the TOR forums, but I try pretty hard to stay away from insulting anyone (unless they're obvious  trolls, and then I can't help myself on occasion, so my sarcasm can get a little more...harsh  ).

Fair enough, I do often let my emotions get the best of me, and generally I'm the first to admit it. I haven't spent any time in the TOR  forums, but I believe it. The flaming does go both ways though imo, there's generally plenty of snark from both sides of the fence.

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Heh, I deliberately avoid the TOR forums.

I was banned when I said I hoped the game wouldn't be as casual-friendly as WoW (where the game got too easy for those who wanted a challenge), I was apparently being "offensive".

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:50 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Heh, I deliberately avoid the TOR forums.

I was banned when I said I hoped the game wouldn't be as casual-friendly as WoW (where the game got too easy for those who wanted a challenge), I was apparently being "offensive".

Thats a pretty silly thing to get banned for I have to say.

[upsettingshorts]

My views on TOR in a nutshell were in that thread of mine I linked:

In summary, us pre-CU fans aren't necessarily defending the actual pre-CU product. We're defending the promise that pre-CU showed that to us developers seem to have abandoned because SOE/LucasArts failed to follow through on them, instead panicking in the face of WoW's overnight success with the NGE.

Anyway, I don't want to drag the topic off into a tangent on TOR. The point is that just because a guy like me can be in favor of changes to an established game like DA:O doesn't mean that I'm not pining for the old ways in regards to another one, and therefore I can understand why people have the point of view they do.

It's simply a matter of recognizing that it is just a diverse collection of preferences and not some grand debate about what's right and wrong.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 octobre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

@AngryPants, if it feels like a feature dumbs down the game, that's still a legitimate criticism. I mean, in the promotion of DA2 they talked about having to "read and analyze" as a negative feature of DAO. If you happen to like giving your character responses that way, being told it's nerdy and outdated naturally leads to some pushback.

I'm not going to comment on the criticism of DA:2's marketing because that's opening up a whole can of worms that doesn't interest me in the slightest.  However...

It's not that the criticism is illegitimate.  The problem is that it can and ought to be framed in a way which isn't dismissive or arrogant.  Why?  If common courtesy isn't a good enough reason, then because it undermines the argument by casual dismissal of the opposing viewpoint, either explicitly or implicitly.  It results in those who disagree attacking the person who made the argument and not the argument itself.

Basically, I get sick of seeing a lot of features I like - and can come up with damn good reasons why - being dismissed as dumber (from the dialogue wheel to ME2's weapons), when I've been playing CRPGs just as long as those critics with no difficulty with regards to intelligence.  It's insulting, and makes me approach these forums bitter and angry, and that is tragic and unnecessary. 

The point behind my silly labels earlier in this thread was to get across the idea that ultimately we're debating preferences that arise from our different approaches to the CRPG genre, and our tone ought to reflect that.

Well no argument there.  DAO is my first BioWare game, so am I "old school"?  Can't say that.  I just happened to discover old school gaming while it was on the way out the door. 

I would probably, if I had to reduce things to generalizations, talk more about commercialism and mass market appeal than dumbing down per se.  Thing is, they do often go hand in hand.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 octobre 2010 - 11:06 .

[Gunny5821]

Question folks. The more I look at threads like this, the more I see that people just stroll into our forums to stir up people and get everyone hot under the collar. I was under the impression that one could NOT post a comment in here unless they possess a registered game. Since most of the agitators’ have NO game ownership icon under their Avatar, one can only suspect they don't in fact own a game. So if they do NOT own a game, how can they make any worthy contributions to our forums? The simple answer is, NONE!

Folks, these forums are designed for the privileged folk that spent their hard earned Green Backs to come and share experiences, thoughts, game play, advice, assistance and general Good Ole Fellowship. Why do we allow ourselves to fall into the traps these agitators’ create? Why do we allow them the opportunity to come here and incite a none existent issue and sit back and watch us all go for the jugular, at “our” expense? I know it will continue and this posting will be read and forgotten about as quick as it was read, but we can make a difference if we try to do so. Personally, I refuse to play into their games and will not allow them to sit back and mock us as we try to provide reasonable answers to questions that never sought an answer to begin with.

Just an observation by one who owns the games I choose to write about and is tired of the agitators’ jacking us all up on our coin. I will continue to come here to seek Fellowship as I usually do, and I usually find like minded individuals with relative ease. Why and how do I find them, it is easy, look for rational threads by proven game owners! IMO of course……………….

Modifié par Gunny5821, 09 octobre 2010 - 11:12 .

[Lumikki]

I ques I can say my conserns here too. First I think DA2 will be success as it's. I have how ever two personal conserns about DA2.

1. Graphics style is shifting more to Japanese anime style.

What I mean by this is when I look the DA2, it looks like I'm watching some children anime movie. I don't mean anything bad by this, because I like anime and even children movies. I mean the style is more in that direction. I don't mean that style should have to be like some booring medival age from reality, but when people gets older they taste of many stuff does change, it's natural for any human. They taste of music change, they taste of art change, what kind of stuff they are interested change and so on. When I looked DA serie I may want it to be more like the new movie "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time" style. I mean it's full of fast action and even acrobatics movements, but the visual style is not over done like in Japanese animation. There was this Japanese animiation style in present even in DAO, but it wasn't over done, like it seem to maybe be in DA2. So, it's more prefered style, to my eyes DA2 doesn't look so interesting as visually. I feel like it's too childish, don't really have better word to describe it.

2. RPG character development/creation and variety

Now it seems to be that DA2 has simplifyed some stuff so that it has bigger differences those few stuff they have. That sound good, but they also has put more limits what characters can be in roleplaying stand point, that's not so good. Basicly they are making in my opinion same mistake than they did with ME2, over simplifyed stuff. Don't get me wrong I actually support ME2, one of best game ever I have played, but I just close my eyes, what did happen. Players need variety and too pre-define roles and limited options isn't really so good from RPG stand points.

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 octobre 2010 - 11:21 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Heh, I deliberately avoid the TOR forums.  I made one thread that reflected my views and bailed, because I would have become something of a really irritating broken record.  I'm totally a reactionary when it comes to the idea of a Star Wars MMO.  

Granted, I didn't live up to the promise that I'd be on the forums offering input because I discovered rather quickly that all my input would have basically been "more like pre-CU SWG!"

But yeah, threads get locked because they get sidetracked and run off topic, or because they're redundant, or because they're spam, not because they're negative.

Yep, I have a slightly masochistic streak, so I go to the TOR forums and subject myself to more inanity than I thought I could ever possibly stand. Plus, it's a bit like watching a trainwreck.

I played SWG pre-CU as well, but to be honest, I found the lack of content and the bugginess rather disappointing. You don't know how much time I spent on bugged missions as a bounty-hunter - it started killing any enthusiasm I had for the game after getting to a target and then finding that I couldn't complete the mission. Then I went on an extended art-collecting/interior-decorating spree until I realized that trying collect every existing painting would drive me insane. I still miss the graul that I tamed before they got nerfed (one of those really super-tough mountain grauls if I'm remembering correctly).

Ah well, see, now I've ended up not being on topic, myself.  Anyhow, if people do remain reasonably civil and on target, I don't see why this thread wouldn't stay open as well (heck, it's 20-something pages now  ).

EDIT: I would also tend to agree with Gunny somewhat. It seems as if some people do start threads just to stir up trouble because they delight in watching the fallout that ensues after they drop their bombs.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 09 octobre 2010 - 11:20 .

[Addai]

Gunny5821 wrote...

Question folks. The more I look at threads like this, the more I see that people just stroll into our forums to stir up people and get everyone hot under the collar. I was under the impression that one could NOT post a comment in here unless they possess a registered game. Since most of the agitators’ have NO game ownership icon under their Avatar, one can only suspect they don't in fact own a game. So if they do NOT own a game, how can they make any worthy contributions to our forums? The simple answer is, NONE!

a) Nobody's hot under the collar here that I can see, and there are criticisms from registered game owners, too.

[addiction21]

No you dont have to register or own a game to post here. One of my issues with these (and most every other game forum).

It would definatly cut down on the number of spammers and trolls but this is a bit off topic.





I just dont see the Anime comparison.

[upsettingshorts]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
I played SWG pre-CU as well, but to be honest, I found the lack of content and the bugginess rather disappointing. You don't know how much time I spent on bugged missions as a bounty-hunter - it started killing any enthusiasm I had for the game after getting to a target and then finding that I couldn't complete the mission.

Oh I do have an idea.  My RL friend was one of - if not the first - Master Bounty Hunter on Starsider.  I know all about the flaws of the game - but like I said, the concepts are being tossed into the dustbin because the game was a commercial failure and a critical disaster.  That's why I'm perpetually disappointed, not because SWG was some perfect game.

Anyway...

addiction21 wrote...
I just dont see the Anime comparison.

I think it's the big swords.  I don't like them either, but what can ya do.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 octobre 2010 - 11:19 .

[Daerog]

Gunny5821 wrote...

*snip*

No one has DA2 yet, so everyone is free to post here with a BW social account. It is when a game is released that unregistered people can't go into the spoilers forum or something. Allowing this forum to be open to everyone allows people new to BioWare to check out the games development and community by asking questions and responding to threads. Like with any new game that will get released, the company won't block people from posting just because the person hasn't purchased their previous games yet.

Anyway, I see your point, but I notice more arguments and whatnot being started by people with registered games. I could just be missing all the other arguments, though. I don't go into every thread.

[Clover Rider]

addiction21 wrote...

No you dont have to register or own a game to post here. One of my issues with these (and most every other game forum).
It would definatly cut down on the number of spammers and trolls but this is a bit off topic.


I just dont see the Anime comparison.

Games can be about anything and so can Anime and Books...

[AtreiyaN7]

@upsettingshorts: Yep, I get the appeal of a sandbox game, but at the same time I think you have to have enough content to keep people's interest up. I liked Fallout 3 and even Oblivion, and I enjoyed exploring the Wastelands. Personally, I think if they come up with a successful hybrid allowing you freedom to explore, etc. WITH a lot of solid content that would be ideal (for me at least).

EDIT: fixed the typo that I just noticed...grrr!!!!

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 10 octobre 2010 - 02:03 .

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

addiction21 wrote...
I just dont see the Anime comparison.

I think it's the big swords.  I don't like them either, but what can ya do.

Is that what we can blame the big boobs on, too?  Because something ought to be blamed.  Severely.