175 réponses à ce sujet

[Davasar]

Transferred, and note this isnt a debate on what makes an RPG, but why the lead designed for Dragon Age decided not to work on Dragon Age 2.

Why Brent Knowles left in his own words:

http://blog.brentkno...08-summer-2009/

The bottom line is: to a greater or lesser extent, Brent Knowles left because the direction the game (DA2), and the company had changed to something he could not work for anymore because they were making the game into something he didnt envision as his type of game.

When your lead designer bails out, then something is truely wrong.  Or do some of you actually think that nothing was wrong and he left for the heck of it?  Read his own words.  He was being polite, but there are some things couched in there, to be sure.

Not seeing that is being rather obtuse.

Note this here, from the blog:

I did some high level design for a potential new project but a few months later I realized that, given cutbacks and other things that it really seemed unlikely that the project I had been ‘assigned’ to was ever going to materialize. I can’t/won’t go into any other details other than to point to an old entry I made about this and reiterate: “I’m not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare isn’t the same company. ”

This man worked for 10 years for Bioware. He was there.

Any apologists still up for the notion that Bioware "is still the same as they ever were" argument?

Got over it.  EA has them now, and will do what they want with them.  If that means make lesser games in order to shuck out more product to be bought up by unexamining hordes, then thats what will happen.

The man who worked there 10 years has just shot your argument down. Completely.

Bioware has changed folks, and not for the better when a great designer like Brent Knowles feels he has to quit because of those changes.

[casedawgz]

Yeah, but this is all opinion. I prefer the direction they're taking. I DON'T think they're the same as they've always been, I think they're improving. Flame me if you will. But my opinion is no less valid than that of anyone else.

[Lord_Valandil]

Um...yeah.

I feel the same way as casedawgz, I think they're improving.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Don't mean to be rude, but don't you think you're being overly enthusiastic about all this? I mean, iterating your previous posts in -no, as- new topics?

I'd open a bottle of beer and move on, but that's just me.

[SXOSXO]

I share the same tastes as Brent, but whether or not Bioware is changing for better/worse is up to each person's own preferences. They have definately changed, I will not argue against that, but I'd bet the majority of the fans prefer the new direction. Sometimes we have to accept that some of us are merely a vocal minority.

[Lomopingseph]

You didn't know Brent Knowles. Don't pretend like you care, broseph.

[TimelordDC]

While I certainly feel that some of the changes they've made over the years are purely to satisfy the casual gamer and they are doing more of that in DA 2 (no strategic elements and less tactical depth in combat and with the player not knowing what the character is going to say), I do believe Brent was talking about another game.

He specifically mentions that he wasn't going to be the designer for DA2 and then comments he did some high-level design work for a new project -> which obviously means that it was not DA2.



Maybe ME3?

[Bryy_Miller]

Is there a reason why you decided to make a completely new thread for something that you already posted in another thread? Other than to go "see, Dragon Age 2 is going to suck and BioWare is evil, so suck it, I was right"? This was already discussed to death in the other thread. There is literally no reason why this needs to be a thread all its own.



This is blog material.

[Mike Laidlaw]

I think it's worth mentioning that rather a lot of "old timers" are still around Bioware, which presents something of a foil to the argument that the company has fundamentally changed because someone who had been there 10 years left. Had everyone involved with, say, Baldur's Gate II left in a mass exodus, that would be a point of concern, for sure, but that has yet to happen.

Regardless, as Dave has already pointed out, Brent left before we'd started any solid plans on Dragon Age II. Just conjecture, but I doubt he would declare DA2 an unworthy successor were he to play it today. He'd probably have some awesome feedback, though! Brent is a kick-ass designer.

[casedawgz]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Is there a reason why you decided to make a completely new thread for something that you already posted in another thread? Other than to go "see, Dragon Age 2 is going to suck and BioWare is evil, so suck it, I was right"? This was already discussed to death in the other thread. There is literally no reason why this needs to be a thread all its own.

This is blog material.

Very true. It's not like every thread on this board doesn't degenerate into that at some point though.

[Daerog]

Lead Writer and other developers/writers are still on board, so I'm still on board for DA2. So far, anyway, still waiting for more info.

[Creeper425]

Yes, because you take to word of one guy over the entire Bioware team. Also, I will argue that Bioware is still doing good. Just because EA owns them doesn't automatically mean bad things are coming.Your basing your entire argument off of 20 seconds of gameplay from the exaggerated portion and from a disgruntled developer. Be advised, EA isn't as bad as you think, without them, we wouldn't have gotten Brutal Legend.

[Davasar]

"Yeah, but this is all opinion. I prefer the direction they're taking. I DON'T think they're the same as they've always been, I think they're improving. Flame me if you will. But my opinion is no less valid than that of anyone else."



Flaming in uncecessary as you have been civil.



My point is: the LEAD DESIGNER liked the way DAO was (read that in his blog), as did the millions of fans who bought and lauded the game. DA has gotten away from what made the game successful in the first place, like it or not.



Rather then strengthen existing features and add new ones to an already successful franchise, they went a completely different route, so bad that the lead designer quit.



If the answer for the change is "to make more money, screw off loyal fans of old school RPGs" then fine. I can handle that.



I just want them to come out and say it rather then try to shell game people.



I am sure you have reasons for your opinion.



Mine are simple:



A game decreases in quality when:



-Features that were popular and worked just fine are taken out,

-Existing features that were popular and worked just fine are replaced with simplistic mechanics for the lowest common denominator. Resulting in less choice and less thinking on the players part.



Anyway, thanks for the reply

[Brockololly]

I haven't cared for too much of what I've seen of DA2 thus far, but I'll certainly give it a chance and wait and see more of it before writing it off completely. But sure, the overall trend seems to be towards a more ME style action RPG. There is nothing wrong with that sort of game, but its just seemingly moving away from the type of RPG Origins was. ME was a great game as was DAO, but I enjoyed them because they were at different ends of the RPG spectrum.



Knowles' comments are worrisome as they seemingly echo my concerns about DA2, but maybe the game has changed since he left? Just the fact that Knowles and former Executive Producer Dan Tudge are no longer working on DA gives me pause, especially given the changes seemingly being made in DA2.



Very little of the post release content for Origins has matched the quality of Origins and this combined with the departure of guys like Knowles or Tudge does give me some concern for DA. Time will tell how DA2 turns out...

[Bryy_Miller]

Davasar wrote...

My point is: the LEAD DESIGNER liked the way DAO was (read that in his blog), as did the millions of fans who bought and lauded the game. DA has gotten away from what made the game successful in the first place, like it or not.

Rather then strengthen existing features and add new ones to an already successful franchise, they went a completely different route, so bad that the lead designer quit.

Um, you did read Mike Laidlaw's response to you, right?

[Tiax Rules All]

Wow, I cant help but feel that If I was a game designer I would feel like Brent Knowles. So proud to be a part of a great company but one that is starting to evolve to something different. And by different I mean like all other companies out there.

Don't get me wrong, Bioware IS my favorite game company by far. I can totally see them being indistiguishable from any other company in the near future though, Sorry guys. Hope i'm completely wrong.

Brent Knowles wasn't the only talent on the team though guys. Its not (yet at least) the end of Bioware.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 08 octobre 2010 - 03:58 .

[lv12medic]

I got the impression that he left BioWare because he wanted too. Not an easy decision to make, but people come and go from companies all the time. Though, I will admit, coming back to work and working on a new project that ends up losing support really sucks, regardless of where you work and what you're working on. Unfortunately it happens a lot in many companies in many industries.

[casedawgz]

I dunno. I've played and enjoyed the BG trilogy a number of times. I never played NWN, but other than that I've played everything they've made since BG. I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do next, regardless of the style of the game, because I know the writing will be superb and that's what truly stands out about these games to me anyway. It's not like when I'm craving a fix of old school rpg goodness I can't fire up EasyTutu and make a Kensai/Mage.

[Bryy_Miller]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Wow, I cant help but feel that If I was a game designer I would feel like Brent Miller.

I do this, too.

[Dr. wonderful]

Davasar wrote...

SNIP

Hey quick question.

Had you ever worked there?

[Davasar]

Dr. wonderful wrote...

Davasar wrote...

SNIP

Hey quick question.

Had you ever worked there?

Have you?

[Tiax Rules All]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Wow, I cant help but feel that If I was a game designer I would feel like Brent Miller.

I do this, too.

Wooops   (quick EDIT) all set now.

[Creeper425]

You know, I haven't even heard of anything groundbreaking being taken out. All I hear thats been removed is Race, Origns, and made the main character talk. So far from what the devs have said is they made the combat more fast and fluid with the same features, like if i use sundering arms, its going to take a minute to recharge so I can use it again. I believe I read that in Game Informer. Regardless, I enjoy what they are doing but I do respect the OP's opinion since well, he is putting his arguments in a nice fasion and not "ZOMG GOD OF DAGON EFFECT!!!!" Although if it was Called Dagon Age I would play it easier

[casedawgz]

Creeper425 wrote...
he is putting his arguments in a nice fasion and not "ZOMG GOD OF DAGON EFFECT!!!!"

You wouldn't like the Castlevania: Lords of Shadow gamefaqs board. Awesome game though.