175 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Ignoring what he - someone who actually works at BioWare, has worked with Knowles, and is deep within the design process - said in relation to your conjecture is petty.

To simply play Devil's advocate, its not like Laidlaw or any of the other BioWare devs are going to say "Yeah we loved Brent and really think he'd hate the direction we're taking DA2 in." The current devs do have a vested interest in not dissing their own product.

The concerns raised by Brent in his post are valid ones- he felt DA might end up going more the ME route. Well, DA2 is taking the dialogue wheel, voiced PC , "cinematic" style and "amping up" the action, all the while being reduced in length to a ME length game. It won't be a ME clone or anything, but its not a stretch to say that of what we've seen of DA2 thus far, its definitely taking a page (or 2) out of the ME style RPG playbook. And for people that enjoyed Origins and its more traditional RPG approach, if DA2 ends up more like ME2, thats a damn shame.

[Lyssistr]

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

[Challseus]

So what, he doesn't like the direction Dragon Age is headed (if that *is* what he is saying). It happens, people change, companies change, etc. In the end, it's just one person's opinion.

In fact, I'm sure there were people at Bioware who were there when BG was developed, that didn't like the way they were taking DAO, the supposed spiritual successor. From my perspective, I'm glad Bioware didn't listen to them.

Anyway, if you agree with him, then perhaps you should move on as well, since it doesn't look like you'll enjoy this new game no one has played from start to finish yet?

*Shrug*

[Davasar]

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

[Bryy_Miller]

Brockololly wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Ignoring what he - someone who actually works at BioWare, has worked with Knowles, and is deep within the design process - said in relation to your conjecture is petty.

To simply play Devil's advocate, its not like Laidlaw or any of the other BioWare devs are going to say "Yeah we loved Brent and really think he'd hate the direction we're taking DA2 in." The current devs do have a vested interest in not dissing their own product.

Of course. But jumping from "BioWare is not the same company" to "omg it's all a conspiracy to get our money" is rather lame. 

[Davasar]

Brockololly wrote...

The concerns raised by Brent in his post are valid ones- he felt DA might end up going more the ME route. Well, DA2 is taking the dialogue wheel, voiced PC , "cinematic" style and "amping up" the action, all the while being reduced in length to a ME length game. It won't be a ME clone or anything, but its not a stretch to say that of what we've seen of DA2 thus far, its definitely taking a page (or 2) out of the ME style RPG playbook. And for people that enjoyed Origins and its more traditional RPG approach, if DA2 ends up more like ME2, thats a damn shame.

This.

[Lyssistr]

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

By money I mean base salary & bonus

[Bryy_Miller]

Davasar wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The concerns raised by Brent in his post are valid ones- he felt DA might end up going more the ME route. Well, DA2 is taking the dialogue wheel, voiced PC , "cinematic" style and "amping up" the action, all the while being reduced in length to a ME length game. It won't be a ME clone or anything, but its not a stretch to say that of what we've seen of DA2 thus far, its definitely taking a page (or 2) out of the ME style RPG playbook. And for people that enjoyed Origins and its more traditional RPG approach, if DA2 ends up more like ME2, thats a damn shame.

This.

Then post that. Don't post a bunch of reactionist doom and gloom about how Knowles leaving represents the end of BioWare. That's completely ****ed up.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:31 .

[Davasar]

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

By money I mean base salary & bonus

Unfortunately his blog doesnt infere or mention that.

It does mention that changes to the company, and how the game franchise changed to something he did not like are what most likely lead to his departure.

[casedawgz]

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

By money I mean base salary & bonus

We have a winner. BW employeed have lives outside of making the games. A workplace issue that leads to resignation does not necessarily have anything to do with the content of a given game in itself.

[Tiax Rules All]

Bioware was and is still the best RPG developer for many reasons for me including but not limited to the writing and characters.

Soon I fear the ONLY thing that will be different about Bioware games from the rest will be the writing and characters.

Thats my issue.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:34 .

[Kajros]

I'm gonna have to say I do not see much of an issue with Dragon Age 2. The main character is a "Given" character. You still have to realize he is your character who you can change the first name to, his look, and his class. The gameplay has improved in my opinion. Especially for those of us on the console versions. I am sure the PC version will still have the ability to pause and have party control.

I believe one person leaving is not the end of the world. No offense to Brent. I know he has been with Bioware for 10 years, but he couldn't stick around and voice his opinion with them versus quitting and giving up? Just saying.

One person leaving even if it is the Lead Designer is not the end of the world. There are teams of people who worked on Bioware games.

[Davasar]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The concerns raised by Brent in his post are valid ones- he felt DA might end up going more the ME route. Well, DA2 is taking the dialogue wheel, voiced PC , "cinematic" style and "amping up" the action, all the while being reduced in length to a ME length game. It won't be a ME clone or anything, but its not a stretch to say that of what we've seen of DA2 thus far, its definitely taking a page (or 2) out of the ME style RPG playbook. And for people that enjoyed Origins and its more traditional RPG approach, if DA2 ends up more like ME2, thats a damn shame.

This.

Then post that. Don't post a bunch of reactionist doom and gloom about how Knowles leaving represents the end of BioWare. That's completely ****ed up.

I never said anything doom and gloom or anything about the end of Bioware.  The end of what they once were?  Sure.  Brent Knowles said that, so get mad at him if you dont like it.  I am presenting what he said.

You inferred the exaggerated viewpoint yourself.

[Davasar]

casedawgz wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

By money I mean base salary & bonus

We have a winner. BW employeed have lives outside of making the games. A workplace issue that leads to resignation does not necessarily have anything to do with the content of a given game in itself.

Unfortunately, there is no evidense to show this to be true.

[Lyssistr]

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

By money I mean base salary & bonus

Unfortunately his blog doesnt infere or mention that.

It does mention that changes to the company, and how the game franchise changed to something he did not like are what most likely lead to his departure.

Yes, ok, everyone who quits a job these days says it's incompatible interests. Usually it's money, a partner position (s)he didn't get. That, or his girlfriend/wife moved to another city and he chose to follow his heart.

Modifié par Lyssistr, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:35 .

[Tiax Rules All]

Lyssistr wrote...


Yes, ok, everyone who quits a job these days says it's incompatible interests. Usually it's money, a partner positions (s)he didn't get. That, or his girlfriend/wife moved to another city and he chose to follow his heart.

maybe, but thats not what he SAID, you are speculating more then the rest.

[Bryy_Miller]

Davasar wrote...

You inferred the exaggerated viewpoint yourself.

I think you need to re-read your original post again. You know, the one where you told "BioWare apologists" that they were wrong and that their arguments were completely shot down by one lead designer leaving over creative differences.

[Face of Evil]

Davasar wrote...

I never said anything doom and gloom or anything about the end of Bioware.  The end of what they once were?  Sure.  Brent Knowles said that, so get mad at him if you dont like it.  I am presenting what he said.

You inferred the exaggerated viewpoint yourself.

Oh please. This thread is a thinly-veiled attack against Bioware. You wouldn't have raised what Brent said or attempted to twist it to fit your alarmist nonsense otherwise.

Yeah, yeah, Bioware is "not the person they once were." Whatever the hell that means. Stop shouting that the sky is falling.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:38 .

[Anarya]

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

Is this where we ask ridiculous rhetorical questions that are based on no actual evidence?

Don't you think it's possible Brent was pushing for more pygmy armadillos in DA2 and left because of that? Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over this sort of compromise in his vision.

You hear that, Bioware? I will not play DA2 without pygmy armadillos.

[casedawgz]

Davasar wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

By money I mean base salary & bonus

We have a winner. BW employeed have lives outside of making the games. A workplace issue that leads to resignation does not necessarily have anything to do with the content of a given game in itself.

Unfortunately, there is no evidense to show this to be true.

Nor is there evidence that some sinister mustache-twirling EA suits sit around a board room and dream up ways to corrupt Bioware into their malevolent Sith apprentices, trained in the dark arts of destroying RPG elements.

[Apollo Starflare]

I honestly thought when I saw this thread's title that he had passed away, thankful to see that isn't the case! As to the actual contents of the thread... *facepalm* Others have summed it up nicely already, including a Bioware dev. Jade Empire and Mass Effect came out before they were bought by EA, what was your reasoning behind the non-traditional combat for those games?

Anarya wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

SNIP...

Also could I suggest Anarya's avatar for a love interest in DA3? <3

Ha, ya, I agree

Do You Wanna Date my Avatar?

Do you want to date mine? He bakes. Nutella may be involved in the process.

[Kajros]

Anarya wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, a senior guy left Bioware, big deal. Honestly, apart from Bethany's model I don't like much I see in DA2 but criticism needs to be focused onto the facts you don't like instead of an opinion of someone who worked there, politics sometimes play a large role on what people say.

Those politics being:  he wanted them to continue to make the old school style rpg, and they werent going to because of the company changes.

politics are usually about stuff that matters, that is money and who gets to become a partner in the company.

Right.  Money.  So dont you think it's possible that he was arguing for more time, funding and quality and was shot down because of the proposed cost, and that some of the higher ups wanted a more simple, broader based appealing game because it might bring in more sales?

Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over that.

Just sayin' 

Is this where we ask ridiculous rhetorical questions that are based on no actual evidence?

Don't you think it's possible Brent was pushing for more pygmy armadillos in DA2 and left because of that? Someone with a lot of integrity might quit over this sort of compromise in his vision.

You hear that, Bioware? I will not play DA2 without pygmy armadillos.

Do not forget many will not play unless Varric has plenty of chest hair!!!!!

[Anarya]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

I honestly thought when I saw this thread's title that he had passed away, thankful to see that isn't the case! As to the actual contents of the thread... *facepalm* Others have summed it up nicely already, including a Bioware dev. Jade Empire and Mass Effect came out before they were bought by EA, what was your reasoning behind the non-traditional combat for those games?

Anarya wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

SNIP...

Also could I suggest Anarya's avatar for a love interest in DA3? <3

Ha, ya, I agree

Do You Wanna Date my Avatar?

Do you want to date mine? He bakes. Nutella may be involved in the process.

Your avatar is a version of Hawke that brings you delicious Nutella-based baked goods. Who wouldn't wanna date that?

[Lyssistr]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...


Yes, ok, everyone who quits a job these days says it's incompatible interests. Usually it's money, a partner positions (s)he didn't get. That, or his girlfriend/wife moved to another city and he chose to follow his heart.

maybe, but thats not what he SAID, you are speculating more then the rest.

 What I'm trying to say is that people leave companies for all sorts of reasons, mainly due to politics. If they weren't happy there lately, they may as well say a couple of things about the company, its work etc.

 It's like asking a football player about his previous team, very little credibility in his sayings.

[Tiax Rules All]

Lyssistr wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...


Yes, ok, everyone who quits a job these days says it's incompatible interests. Usually it's money, a partner positions (s)he didn't get. That, or his girlfriend/wife moved to another city and he chose to follow his heart.

maybe, but thats not what he SAID, you are speculating more then the rest.

 What I'm trying to say is that people leave companies for all sorts of reasons, mainly due to politics. If they weren't happy there lately, they may as well say a couple of things about the company, its work etc.

 It's like asking a football player about his previous team, very little credibility in his sayings.

I disagree. Most people dont say bad things even if they want to because they dont want to burn bridges etc.  I think he means what he wrote and I think some people here are in denial that this game probably wont be as good as DAO.

... unless you like hack and slash jrpg's that is