242 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

What people don't realize I think is that Morrigan is not evil. She didn't have the best childhood obviously but she is not beyond redemption. I thought she learns alot from the Warden, at least in my playthrough. And she is by far not as stubborn and unreasonable as other characters, for example Alistair or Wynne. I don't remember anything she said was outright stupid or wrong. Heartless maybe, cruel, but not actually wrong. Even in the Fade she is the only one of your companions who notices by herself that she is being tricked. She simply sees the ugly truth when other people prefer to believe in comfortable illusions. I think she will play a role in Flemeth's eventual downfall, since while I think that Morrigan is not evil, I am 100% sure that Flemeth is. And Morrigan is probably the only one who knows how to stop her.

[Cancermeat]

I wish there was a character named Zaabalawi.

[FieryDove]

AlexXIV wrote...

 Heartless maybe, cruel, but not actually wrong. Even in the Fade she is the only one of your companions who notices by herself that she is being tricked.

Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Also Sten is not tricked and he is not a mage.

[SirOccam]

FieryDove wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

 Heartless maybe, cruel, but not actually wrong. Even in the Fade she is the only one of your companions who notices by herself that she is being tricked.

Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Also Sten is not tricked and he is not a mage.

My good-aligned characters like her just fine. That's the thing about Morrigan...she's not evil for evil's sake. She can be heartless or cruel at times, but it's a product of her upbringing. That's not to say nothing she does is wrong, but her attitude is understandable. She has been raised to value power and survival, and to shun things like affection and love and other "weaknesses." The great part of the game (at least for me) is to show her these things and watch as she reacts to them, initially very dismissively, but later much less so. I think she shows development and change better than any other character. They all (potentially) change to some extent, but hers is the most interesting to me personally because it's so fundamental.

[Ryzaki]

FieryDove wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

 Heartless maybe, cruel, but not actually wrong. Even in the Fade she is the only one of your companions who notices by herself that she is being tricked.

Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Also Sten is not tricked and he is not a mage.

My favorite part about her is her "everyone should rely on themselves" unless its time for her to come running to you for help of course.

And let's not forget this is the genius who will eagerly throw people onto the anvil until you point out that you're strong enough to do the same to her. Then she backpedals so fast

Edit: Not wrong? 

This is the "genius" who suggested you attack Loghain from the start. Not wrong my ***. Following her advice is the easiest way to get yourself killed.

For someone who claims to know all about survival she certainly doesn't know one thing:
People don't survive on their own.

She's also emotionally stunted and somewhat anti-social. I don't see that as attractive at all.

She also doesn't seem to understand that their are far worst things than death. You'd think she'd understand that much considering she was raised by Flemeth. But this is the same genius who suggests you throw yourself at Loghain at the height of his power so...

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 octobre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Dave of Canada]

FieryDove wrote...

Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Is a man who leaves a dozen of hospital patients infected with the plague die cruel and heartless? Yes.
Does that make him evil? No.

Morrigan values power and independence, not killing random pedestrians for ****s and giggles.

[Esbatty]

Anyone else enjoyed Quarian Admiral Morrigan in ME2? I mean Admiral Daro'Xen? Rrrrrrrowl.

[Brightarrow]

I have to say. I didnt like Morigan and got her to leave the party or left her in the camp and NEVER talked to her after one time................

[upsettingshorts]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Morrigan values power and independence, not killing random pedestrians for ****s and giggles.

Careful, if you think critically and then have the gall to tell people about it, they might just accuse you of "thinking too much" about the game.  And nobody wants that.  It probably means you live in your parent's basement!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 octobre 2010 - 05:05 .

[asaiasai]

Morrigan is a matter of opinion. If you like Morrigan use her, i do not like Morrigan so i remove her from the party in Lotharin. I have the same feelings concerning Jack in ME2. The problem is in ME2 there is nothing i can do to remove Jack from the crew, or just not recruit her at all, as the game will not advance until she is picked up. If i could like DAO where i remove Morrigan from my party in Lotharin, would if possible just bypass Purgatory altogether. I do not want either of these angst ridden socially mal adjusted over aged teenagers with no concept of civility or manners on my team or crew. It is the option that the player's choice remains paramount that i am passionate about, DAO is not a typical linear story driven game. It is the repsect Bioware tries to pay to the player's choices in these games that i want to ensure continues to be an integral part of the DAO or ME experience.  

I do find it funny though that some of the same folks who chastize me for my vocal dis like of Morrigan are just as vocal concerning Leliana, Wynne, or even Sten. These same folks will agrue with the same passion concerning these character as i do concerning Morrigan but who is the hypocrit? The only real reason it seems like i am everywhere and they are not is because Morrigan topics ARE everywhere. So as volume seems to be the key in getting what the community wants from Bioware, (Tali mancers opened this can of worms) i think it is necessary for those of us who feel Morrigan is over rated to be heard where ever a Morrigan thread opens up. Due to the outward hostility directed at the anti Morrigan fans it does take a bit of a F/U mentality to actually voice a contrary opinion. To those who find it insulting when i say that the only reason Morrigan has all the love she has is because she has a nice rack, when the truth of the matter is if Morrigan looked like Flemeth not a single one of these pro Morrigan threads would be in existence. You can whine, deny, turn the argument around, obsfucate all you want but there it is deal with it. I am right and you know i am right, and what pisses you folks off is that i dare call you on it. 

Now i am going to make a Morrigan sucks thread and lets see how many of you are as guilty of the behavior you chastise me for. How many of you will come in and interupt a civil debate or a conversation of like minded individuals in a discission concerning the lack of merit a particular character has, as i am accused of on so many occasions by speaking the truth as i percieve it concerning the Morrigan character. See the difference is, that i do not really care if you like Morrigan, it has no bearing on my game what you choose to do with Morrigan in your game. My concern is that the optional Morrigan character, her optional story involvment, and her optional god baby might due to over whelming pressure by the community go from optional to manditory.  Just as many of you choose to leave Sten rot in his cage, refuse the assistance of Leliana, will kill Wynne the best, really,only healer in the game,  i choose to treat Morrigan with the same contempt that many of you treat the aforementioned characters. That i am vocal about it is where the your problem begins.  
 
Asai

[Esbatty]

asaiasai wrote...

Morrigan is a matter of opinion. If you like Morrigan use her, i do not like Morrigan so i remove her from the party in Lotharin. I have the same feelings concerning Jack in ME2. The problem is in ME2 there is nothing i can do to remove Jack from the crew, or just not recruit her at all, as the game will not advance until she is picked up. If i could like DAO where i remove Morrigan from my party in Lotharin, would if possible just bypass Purgatory altogether. I do not want either of these angst ridden socially mal adjusted over aged teenagers with no concept of civility or manners on my team or crew. It is the option that the player's choice remains paramount that i am passionate about, DAO is not a typical linear story driven game. It is the repsect Bioware tries to pay to the player's choices in these games that i want to ensure continues to be an integral part of the DAO or ME experience.  

I do find it funny though that some of the same folks who chastize me for my vocal dis like of Morrigan are just as vocal concerning Leliana, Wynne, or even Sten. These same folks will agrue with the same passion concerning these character as i do concerning Morrigan but who is the hypocrit? The only real reason it seems like i am everywhere and they are not is because Morrigan topics ARE everywhere. So as volume seems to be the key in getting what the community wants from Bioware, (Tali mancers opened this can of worms) i think it is necessary for those of us who feel Morrigan is over rated to be heard where ever a Morrigan thread opens up. Due to the outward hostility directed at the anti Morrigan fans it does take a bit of a F/U mentality to actually voice a contrary opinion. To those who find it insulting when i say that the only reason Morrigan has all the love she has is because she has a nice rack, when the truth of the matter is if Morrigan looked like Flemeth not a single one of these pro Morrigan threads would be in existence. You can whine, deny, turn the argument around, obsfucate all you want but there it is deal with it. I am right and you know i am right, and what pisses you folks off is that i dare call you on it. 

Now i am going to make a Morrigan sucks thread and lets see how many of you are as guilty of the behavior you chastise me for. How many of you will come in and interupt a civil debate or a conversation of like minded individuals in a discission concerning the lack of merit a particular character has, as i am accused of on so many occasions by speaking the truth as i percieve it concerning the Morrigan character. See the difference is, that i do not really care if you like Morrigan, it has no bearing on my game what you choose to do with Morrigan in your game. My concern is that the optional Morrigan character, her optional story involvment, and her optional god baby might due to over whelming pressure by the community go from optional to manditory.  Just as many of you choose to leave Sten rot in his cage, refuse the assistance of Leliana, will kill Wynne the best, really,only healer in the game,  i choose to treat Morrigan with the same contempt that many of you treat the aforementioned characters. That i am vocal about it is where the your problem begins.  
 
Asai

But that exact kind of thread was created multiple times just last month and was subsequently locked or forgotten.

[upsettingshorts]

asaiasai wrote...

Morrigan is a matter of opinion.

Simple follow up question: Do you expect characters like Jack and Morrigan to act with civility and manners despite their upbringing, or does it not surprise you but you just would rather not have them along?

/doesn't actively dislike any of the characters you mention

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 octobre 2010 - 07:56 .

[asaiasai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

asaiasai wrote...

Morrigan is a matter of opinion.

Simple follow up question: Do you expect characters like Jack and Morrigan to act with civility and manners despite their upbringing, or does it not surprise you but you just would rather not have them along?

/doesn't actively dislike any of the characters you mention

Every  character other than Morrigan and Jack is willing to be civil and has manners, christ even the Krogan have more manners than Jack. If i was in a position where i HAD to deal with the angst ridden characters that are Morrigan and Jack that would be one thing. As both of those characters are completely expendable, and have little impact on the plot or completion of the mission, why bother digging into the drama that is Jack and Morrigan if one can just turn to Samara, Miranda or Wynne and say your up, and not have to deal with the childishness of the emotionally unstable characters. I have a job to do either stop the reapers, or stop the blight, if you seek absolution find a priest, if you need a shoulder to cry on find a shrink, other than that suck it up and soldier on or get off my boat or out of my camp. 

How hard thier lives were before is not my problem unless i am willing to allow it and i am not. This is not the CW where the episode is about some one whining because "life is so hard". I have fully workable replacements so what happens to either Jack or Morrigan has little consequence on the game, or even the story. Get with my program as the PC for whom the game was written, this is not the adventuures of Jack or Morrigan this is the Warden or Shepard show, get with the program or go away. Neither one of these characters are necessary to the completion of my mission. I will say it right now that if not having the god baby with Morrigan makes the situation in DA3, 4, 5, 6, etc more difficult bring it on, it is a penalty i am looking foward to paying.

It is almost the same argument in whether you allow the Architect to live or kill him. It is a too each his own decision or it should be.  Bioware let me make the decision and has said they will try and respect the decision set, this i think creates a truly unique experience not only from player to player but play to play. Protecting this level of player involvment is one of the reasons i am as vocal as i am. This as far as i know is a unique thing for a video game series, the decisions you make in episode one effect episode two, that is just too awesome to loose because folks get wrapped up in a few characters.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 11 octobre 2010 - 09:14 .

[AlexXIV]

SirOccam wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

 Heartless maybe, cruel, but not actually wrong. Even in the Fade she is the only one of your companions who notices by herself that she is being tricked.

Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Also Sten is not tricked and he is not a mage.

My good-aligned characters like her just fine. That's the thing about Morrigan...she's not evil for evil's sake. She can be heartless or cruel at times, but it's a product of her upbringing. That's not to say nothing she does is wrong, but her attitude is understandable. She has been raised to value power and survival, and to shun things like affection and love and other "weaknesses." The great part of the game (at least for me) is to show her these things and watch as she reacts to them, initially very dismissively, but later much less so. I think she shows development and change better than any other character. They all (potentially) change to some extent, but hers is the most interesting to me personally because it's so fundamental.

I think it is just that SirOcclam and I don't give her up so easily as others do. The point is she was raised by Flemeth and nobody can really say what that means. But Morrigan is reasonable. She uses her brain and she can be convinced. Or how is it that she first refuses the Warden to come with her after the Archdemon is slain, but in WH she changed her mind obviously. I think the only people who don't like her don't give her a chance to begin with. Probably the same kind of people who think that because something is hard, it is impossible. Well actually their own loss.

[Morrigans God son]

Asai reminds me of Isolde, and acts like her too. "I want things done my own way."

"I hate Morrigan because she is a b1tch."
Morrigan is not. She's abrupt sure...but it's part of her character, and consider her upbringing. Plus Morrigan isn't always like that, if you romance her, you will see that, if you don't it's your loss.

She's a great character and I'm glad her and Flemeth have a big rule in the DA series. It wouldn't be the same if they killed them both off. In fact I don't even think I would play anymore, if both those characters just "disappeared" They have too much potential. Same with Alistair.

Boo, I hate the fade.

Modifié par Morrigans God son, 11 octobre 2010 - 01:07 .

[Marionetten]

FieryDove wrote...

Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

I'll take heartless and cruel over self-righteous and deluded any day of the week.

Yes, Morrigan showed litte pity for those unable to fend for themselves but at least she wasn't a whack job like Leliana.

[FieryDove]

SirOccam wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Also Sten is not tricked and he is not a mage.

My good-aligned characters like her just fine. That's the thing about Morrigan...she's not evil for evil's sake.

So someone tells your character that being heartless and cruel is right and being kind and compassionate is wrong and they agree? Sorry, your characters are not good aligned.

Dave of Canada wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Heartless and cruel but that's not wrong? My good aligned characters would disagree.

Is a man who leaves a dozen of hospital patients infected with the plague die cruel and heartless? Yes.
Does that make him evil? No.
Morrigan values power and independence, not killing random pedestrians for ****s and giggles.

I never said she was evil. I can understand why she is what she is.

On the surface it is as Alistair says, she's evil and mean and dangerous. Thankfully and due to top notch writers many of us dig deeper.

[UberDuber]

Morrigan's character added change into the game. I mean you can't expect every character to love you from the begining and never offend you, despite their loses and upbringing. She was raised by Flemeth and lived in a cold forest all her life. It would be stupid if she started of so friendly to you. Morrigan has little experience of her own, it has been mostly what Flemeth has taught her. Now consider that. Morrigan opens up to you more & more through out the game, and eventually shuts you out again, because her feelings are getting involed.

Morrigan isn't even "Evil" as some people have stated. She offered the DR to my PC to save him after all. She tries to hide her feelings for the warden, and fights her emotions every step of the way. At the stage of the DR & @ the gates of Denerim you can see how endearing Morrigan can be. When she tries so hard to keep it simple and hide her feelings.

And come on...you can't expect BioWare to kill of every character, just because you wanted them too. They need some characters for continuation purposes.
WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO MORE MORRIGAN

Modifié par UberDuber, 11 octobre 2010 - 01:33 .

[VampireCommando]

Now this is damn good news.

[Marionetten]

FieryDove wrote...

So someone tells your character that being heartless and cruel is right and being kind and compassionate is wrong and they agree? Sorry, your characters are not good aligned.

You can be a good aligned pragmatist. Not everyone confers to the Robin Hood archetype.

[upsettingshorts]

Every character, whether we like or dislike them, add to the game by their presence. I don't expect everyone to worship the ground the Warden/Shepard walks on - though I have no problem with the opinions expressed by Asai of wanting them to get onboard or get out of their way.



But that's not really my approach. My approach - at least when I'm playing "myself" and not a particular character - is to try to bring them along to my side. Can I do that with say, Morrigan? My Warden thinks he can. But probably not.

[Brightarrow]

i wish there was a way to make moragan a grey warden and make her kill the arch demon and DIE

[FellowerOfOdin]

Goddamn **** you Bioware, seriously. Stop forcing people to like characters especially the most one-dimensional character in the entire game. Goddamn, I am so upset.

Bioware, show some balls and give us the option to kill that cow to end it all. You already ****teased us with Witch Hunt, so man it up and let us kill her once and for all.

And when Oghren makes another appearance, I will personally murder every single Bioware employee. 

Fortunately, Guild Wars 2 will likely release at the same time thus I won't buy DA2 at that point anyway. And when you are forced to help or assist her in DA2, pirating is the way to go.

Modifié par FellowerOfOdin, 11 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .

[Cancermeat]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Goddamn **** you Bioware, seriously. Stop forcing people to like characters especially the most one-dimensional character in the entire game. Goddamn, I am so upset.

Bioware, show some balls and give us the option to kill that cow to end it all. You already ****teased us with Witch Hunt, so man it up and let us kill her once and for all.

And when Oghren makes another appearance, I will personally murder every single Bioware employee. 

Fortunately, Guild Wars 2 will likely release at the same time thus I won't buy DA2 at that point anyway. And when you are forced to help or assist her in DA2, pirating is the way to go.

Talk about nerd rage........