260 réponses à ce sujet

[Woofy128]

Wow. Can't post saying "good job, Bioware, keep it up" without a horde of gibbering cretins jumping on it and drawing wild assumptions. Gotta love the internet.



If you all hate DA2 so much, I'll venture to give you some advice. There is presumably a game you all don't despise. Stop reading and posting on the DA2 forums and go to the forums of that game. Pat the developer on the back for making something you enjoy. You'll feel better. If you derive more satisfaction from crapping on things you don't like than supporting things you do like, you're more to be pitied.

[sarah121]

i would just like to say unhealthy levels of obsession for DAO was beyond me, i was rude when i wasnt on the game for a while becasue i loved it so much...i wouldnt consentrate until i was on it again adn i still am DA2 looks awsome..but as for the storyline i have no idea what it is so anyone know..
I was a bit obsessed with aister and hope that if he isnt in it as king i hope that morrigan is or the demon baby is. That would be a twist. Again li love this game so much and i hope they keep making them because i havnt found any game that amounts to it xx i love roleplaying games and this is just brilliant xx

[Mike Laidlaw]

Just to note, it's nice to see a thread that's positive. As I've said before, I totally understand the concerns around DA2. It's different, and different could be a bad thing. It could also be a good thing, and I'm glad some folks are excited by the changes.

[Merced256]

Woofy128 wrote...

Wow. Can't post saying "good job, Bioware, keep it up" without a horde of gibbering cretins jumping on it and drawing wild assumptions. Gotta love the internet.

If you all hate DA2 so much, I'll venture to give you some advice. There is presumably a game you all don't despise. Stop reading and posting on the DA2 forums and go to the forums of that game. Pat the developer on the back for making something you enjoy. You'll feel better. If you derive more satisfaction from crapping on things you don't like than supporting things you do like, you're more to be pitied.

I think we have a candiate for godwin's law... any post now.

[Mecha Tengu]

Merced256 wrote...

Woofy128 wrote...

Wow. Can't post saying "good job, Bioware, keep it up" without a horde of gibbering cretins jumping on it and drawing wild assumptions. Gotta love the internet.

If you all hate DA2 so much, I'll venture to give you some advice. There is presumably a game you all don't despise. Stop reading and posting on the DA2 forums and go to the forums of that game. Pat the developer on the back for making something you enjoy. You'll feel better. If you derive more satisfaction from crapping on things you don't like than supporting things you do like, you're more to be pitied.

I think we have a candiate for godwin's law... any post now.

I don't see how Godwin can be invoked from this

[SirOccam]

N*zi N*zi Hitler Hitler. There.

[Anarya]

If there's one thing the internet has taught me, it's that Godwin can be invoked from anything.

[Meltemph]

I think we have a candiate for godwin's law... any post now.

Ad hominems and sarcasm is your only response? A bit sad, specially considering you have said nothing that makes his opinion wrong. I mean, looking through your posting history, I don't see how what you do is any different, other then you just point out the things you dislike, all the time. Blind complaining and dislike is just as annoying as blind fanboyism.



I have yet to hear anything from DA2 that would lead me to dislike the game at all, but by your logic, that means, I'm a blind fanboy or a BDF, and just makes it sound like you cant stand people disagreeing with your dislike of the game.

[In Exile]

Merced256 wrote...

What exactly is new? Everything "new" they are incorporating has been in previous titles and some they pioneered themselves. Theres nothing new or risky about what they are doing other than attaching it to the DA franchise. Optimism is good and all but yikes.

The intention add ons to the dialogue wheel, and the dominant personality system. Frankly I thought we've always needed [sarcasm] tags prior to dialogue choices and argued heavily for this on the old DA:O forums, so I think this particular choice is brilliant VO or not.

And how they are handling personality to create a more customizable character is most certainly novel.

[Merced256]

In Exile wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

What exactly is new? Everything "new" they are incorporating has been in previous titles and some they pioneered themselves. Theres nothing new or risky about what they are doing other than attaching it to the DA franchise. Optimism is good and all but yikes.

And how they are handling personality to create a more customizable character is most certainly novel.

That it is, and given BW's track record it will likely be fairly well done. This in conjunction with the rivarly system are two things i'm very interested in. My point was that the changes that are being made do not come with any inherent risk of abysmal failure. The wheel is proven and "improved" upon with the ability to play pictograph and the whole cinematic feel of ME/2 in conjunction with a framed narrative seems like a BW match made in heaven. At least for those who could tolerate multiple playthroughs of ME2. I feel like these changes can only make the DA franchise more appealing to the wider audience they have been seeking, and thus the game more successful. But since i have very little vested interest in its mass appeal i do lament some of the changes that take it further away from a CRPG.

Modifié par Merced256, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:29 .

[In Exile]

Merced256 wrote...

That it is, and given BW's track record it will likely be fairly well done. This in conjunction with the rivarly system are two things i'm very interested in. My point was that the changes that are being made do not come with any inherent risk of abysmal failure. The wheel is proven and "improved" upon with the ability to play pictograph and the whole cinematic feel of ME/2 in conjunction with a framed narrative seems like a BW match made in heaven. At least for those who could tolerate multiple playthroughs of ME2. Thank god for youtube or else i would've never gotten to see renegade shep's best lines. :innocent:

Right, I see what you mean. To be honest, I do think what Bioware is doing is risky, since they are dramatically changing the formula for DA2. Obviously the belief is that adding VO will make the game even more succesful than it was, but it could potentially backfire, and there might never have been a deep to change-up the formula so dramatically.

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote...

Right, I see what you mean. To be honest, I do think what Bioware is doing is risky, since they are dramatically changing the formula for DA2. Obviously the belief is that adding VO will make the game even more succesful than it was, but it could potentially backfire, and there might never have been a deep to change-up the formula so dramatically.

The thing is, I did  think after finishing Origins the first time "You know it might be neat to see a DA game more in the vein of ME's style one day." But I was more thinking that would be DA6 or 7, once they wanted to sort of reboot the franchise or something. To just sort of ditch the traditional cRPG heritage DAO was going for after only one game seems a bit ...forced? I'd have rather seen a more BG2 style sequel, where instead of shaking up everything, you sort of build off of the fundamentals of the first game and basically add more content and depth to everything, not streamline and strip stuff away while changing the style. Maybe its not that drastic but the marketing and the limited stuff released thus far makes it seem that way.

There are certainly things I'm interested about (story, characters, rivalry system) but there seem to be a whole lot of changes that I don't necessarily see as being straight up improvements, but at best a lateral sidestep or even a step back. We'll see...

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:57 .

[Woofy128]

Sheesh. And this is why I don't post much. An entire argument over virtually nothing.

At the risk of being tiresome by continuing on this topic, I thought Origins was brilliant, but I don't want them to make Origins clones for the next twenty years. Bioware's creative sensibility strikes a chord with me as a player of RPGs, and I've enjoyed all their past games more than other RPG studios'. If you want to call an enjoyment of their approach to storytelling and their creative style as a team of game designers irrational fanboyism, go ahead.

Like the gentleman above said, I too have been looking at the material they've released to us, the public, since DA2 was announced, and there is nothing among that that makes me worried that they are going to **** everything up out of nowhere. And if they did, all you can do is part ways. I didn't like the direction NwN 2 was going in before it was released, and I stopped reading the forum despite being initially hugely excited for the title. I don't like the approach to TOR, and I'm not hanging around on the TOR boards calling everyone who does a fanatic and a fool. Again, despite being initially hugely excited over the announcement. I must've been hopping around like a squirrel on pcp for the week after kotor freakin' online was revealed.

As the saying goes: it takes all sorts to do the world's work. All you can do is keep an open mind toward any changes they make and try to see what their intent was. If the changes jar with you on a fundamental level, all you can do is leave and find another game community you will feel good contributing to. No sane game designer, or no game designer with any confidence in their abilities, is going to accept criticism from random people on the internet as equally valid as criticism coming from their peers in the industry. It's the same for any art form.

I guess this ended up being more an open post to any doom sayers of Bioware's innovation than the particular opponents I have had the distinction of getting tangled up with, and written with the generous assumption they aren't simply trolling for lack of anything better to do. Thanks for taking the time to read the post of some total stranger on the internet.

[Meltemph]

To just sort of ditch the traditional cRPG heritage DAO was going for after

I don't really see them "ditching" what DAO was going after, only taking this story, with a PST approach.

[Xewaka]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Just to note, it's nice to see a thread that's positive. As I've said before, I totally understand the concerns around DA2. It's different, and different could be a bad thing. It could also be a good thing, and I'm glad some folks are excited by the changes.

While there are some changes that I disagree with (mainly the lack of dwarfiness in the Main Character), I have to say that the framed narrative has me intrigued. The fact that combat in PCs will pretty much be the same but with better melee responsiveness is definitely a plus. My main concern is in the fact that the wheel horribly f*cks up paraphrasing. Seriously, half the time the wheel paraphrasing says the diammetrical opposite of the voicing. Don't repeat that mistake.
And Varric better be recruitable at the very beginning, to make up for the unforgivable affront of not allowing a dwarf PC. Or give humans some decent bearding.

[Bootsykk]

In Exile wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

What exactly is new? Everything "new" they are incorporating has been in previous titles and some they pioneered themselves. Theres nothing new or risky about what they are doing other than attaching it to the DA franchise. Optimism is good and all but yikes.

The intention add ons to the dialogue wheel, and the dominant personality system. Frankly I thought we've always needed [sarcasm] tags prior to dialogue choices and argued heavily for this on the old DA:O forums, so I think this particular choice is brilliant VO or not.

And how they are handling personality to create a more customizable character is most certainly novel.

...the what?
WHERE?! I hadn't head about this at all, and now I'm super excited, link please! (pretty please? )



EDIT: *obligatory post in which I bash DA2, bash bashers of DA2, bash the bashers bashing bashers of DA2, or make a snarky comment to make myself sound witty and intellectual*

Modifié par Juneya, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:19 .

[SirOccam]

Juneya wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

What exactly is new? Everything "new" they are incorporating has been in previous titles and some they pioneered themselves. Theres nothing new or risky about what they are doing other than attaching it to the DA franchise. Optimism is good and all but yikes.

The intention add ons to the dialogue wheel, and the dominant personality system. Frankly I thought we've always needed [sarcasm] tags prior to dialogue choices and argued heavily for this on the old DA:O forums, so I think this particular choice is brilliant VO or not.

And how they are handling personality to create a more customizable character is most certainly novel.

...the what?
WHERE?! I hadn't head about this at all, and now I'm super excited, link please! (pretty please? )

David Gaider goes pretty in-depth in this thread.

[addiction21]

Juneya wrote...
snip

Obligatory is my word get your own.

[Merced256]

Meltemph wrote...

To just sort of ditch the traditional cRPG heritage DAO was going for after

I don't really see them "ditching" what DAO was going after, only taking this story, with a PST approach.

I see what you're saying, and they could right now allay some fears of the CRPG crowd if they said that they are choosing the ME2 style because they are just telling hawke's story and the ME2 style fit it perfectly. I'd be totally ok with that, but i honestly don't see them doing this and then going back to a traditional CRPG. To this point they've only said that this is a possibility, and frankly i wouldn't trust them even if they did come out and say definitively that they would make another CRPG. All i could do is hope. The main reason being is that i feel like this whole transition is an attempt to make the franchise more appealing to the mass public, and if you use this system to do that then you virtually gaurantee you have to use a form of that same system in all future games.

[Bootsykk]

addiction21 wrote...

Juneya wrote...
snip

Obligatory is my word get your own.

Obligatory witty comeback, complete with glorious glitter and beauteous ballads by singing swans.
No, you!

EDIT: thank youuuu, SirOccam <3

Modifié par Juneya, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:25 .

[Brockololly]

Merced256 wrote...
I see what you're saying, and they could right now allay some fears of the CRPG crowd if they said that they are choosing the ME2 style because they are just telling hawke's story and the ME2 style fit it perfectly. I'd be totally ok with that, but i honestly don't see them doing this and then going back to a traditional CRPG. To this point they've only said that this is a possibility, and frankly i wouldn't trust them even if they did come out and say definitively that they would make another CRPG. All i could do is hope. The main reason being is that i feel like this whole transition is an attempt to make the franchise more appealing to the mass public, and if you use this system to do that then you virtually gaurantee you have to use a form of that same system in all future games.

^This.

Considering every BioWare game in the works now (ME3, TOR, DA2) has some sort of derivation of the dialogue wheel and voice acted everything, I'm not holding my breath that they'll go back to the silent PC. I'd love to be wrong as I think you could improve the silent PC approach without adding voice, but I'll be damned if BioWare gives up their precious dialogue wheel and voiced eveything anytime soon.

MOAR! VO, along with the voiced PC+dialogue wheel seems to be BIoWare's shtick now.

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:30 .

[upsettingshorts]

Works for me, and I wouldn't consider myself one of the great unwashed masses that the dialogue wheel is supposedly meant to draw in.

[Sidney]

Xewaka wrote...

My main concern is in the fact that the wheel horribly f*cks up paraphrasing. Seriously, half the time the wheel paraphrasing says the diammetrical opposite of the voicing. Don't repeat that mistake.

I keep hearing people say that but either I have incredible guessing skills, people who say these things have a real problem of some ilk with reading  or there were issues in localization that caused problems because I really never had this problem of not know what Shep was gonna say. I think the only "Oh god no" moment was the flirty tone FemShep took with Jacob one time. Can you give examples of where the wheel causes you this kind of issue - if it is so common it should be easy to peg a few of them.

[upsettingshorts]

The problem I had with ME1-2's implementation of the Dialogue Wheel system is how incredibly restrictive and arbitrary the Paragon/Renegade system feels to me. I get a lot more enjoyment out of it when I cheat myself the ability to use both. 

So in that sense what I've heard about DA:2's dialogue wheel has so far struck me as an improvement on the ME1-2 system, not a direct copy of it.

That being said, I never had an issue - that I can recall - of the option on the wheel leading to a wholly unexpected line delivery by Shepard.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:39 .