20 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

I'm aiming for my mage to be a form-centric shapeshifter, meaning that he'll spend most of his time as an animal. He'll max all 4 primal spell trees, along with the shapeshifter tree. The primal spells will be used to soften enemies, but the rest of a fight will be spent in an animal form. Naturally, strength and dexterity are important. However, I'm wondering if the weapon(s) and the armor are important. Do they figure in to the defense and offense stats once he has shapeshifted?

[killpillz09]

I do believe that I read somewhere on these forums that the weapon you are wielding will affect how much damage you do once you've shifted your shape, meaning that 2h swords equiped before you've changed forms will give you the maximum damage without slowing down your attacks (as only the damage of the weapon equiped before you change is used), so 2h swords are a must.



I don't know about armour, though there is someone on these forums with a thread about his playthrough of a shapeshifter, so if I was you, I'd try to search for it.



Goodluck!

[Jamess225]

IMO the only and the best way to utilize a shapeshifter isn't stacking great gear which maybe better used on someone dishing out DPS but using Master Swarm form and thru sheer moving speed of the form just kite the enemies around while the team shoots them down with bows...



This actually works extremely well and for instance Lothering bandits which often prove quite challenging at that level are a walk in the park using that strategy.



So stack willpower for your artificial HP (which is mana) and just walk them in circles. You don't need Dex as you're immune to arrows and for melees they will rarerly if ever get a hit in and it will be absorbed effortlessly in your mana pool. If someone targets you with spells, it's the same thing, you're large HP pool will absorb it and thus make your form last much longer.



Note that it's always a shame for a mage to shift as it loses quite a lot of utility.



However the strat above might even work with a solo shapeshifter(with some adjustments) because your swarm form does some AoE damage to enemies in the vicinity.



Yes, also when executing such kites, give your shapeshifter a few moments to build up aggro with its AoE aura before letting a team to attack since enemies might disperse and go after your ranged party..



tl;dr: Use bows and kite with swarm form.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Thanx for the imput. He'll eventually get the Chasind Great Maul, and I don't think that any of the others will need that particular weapon (Sten will use his sword, and Ogren will use the best two-handed axe that I can find). How is damage done while in swarm form calculated? Does armor improve defense while in animal form?



PS - I get up to level 25 and about 850 gold in Lothering by giving thousands of traps to Allison, so I'm wondering how to build a form-centric shapeshifter (stats, weapons, ormor, etc.).

[Jamess225]

Well if you're after damage in swarm form and actually that is the way to go you want to max only one stat...magic...With high spell power the swarm's aura will actually outdamage most over time spell damagers....

So pump magic to the max and just fly around your enemies..easy as that. Melees can't catch you, archers can't damage you. Only thing to watch for is Web(a big problem) or a triggered Pummel if it pulls thru. With a bit of practice I think you might be able to buzz any melee/ranged group down with ease.
Your bow party would be just gravy on top of that.

Your high aura damage will ensure you have everyone's aggro in just a couple of seconds...so this might even make for a fun alternative approach to using Morrigan(or PC).

Modifié par Jamess225, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:07 .

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

I see, but I want to use the other 3 forms too. When he's a bear, wolf, or spider, I'd imaging that str and dex are important. Would good weapons and armor help me in these 3 forms?

[Jamess225]

Your form's STR, DEX, and CON are determined by your spellpower, unless one of the attribute was higher beforehand, then rest are determined by SP and that one alone stays the same...again best bet is to boost magic and have all three higher.



Pro tip: If you use staff before shifting, your attacks can't miss, but can't crit also. Still think the no miss way is better.



Your mage form armor will be used if it's higher than the chosen forms one. Each form has an armor value. But if your mage form is higher you'll get another +10 by shifting.

[killpillz09]

a great weapon to use when your further into the game is Nug Crusher as it gives you +100 stamina and stamina = magic, and one final point, for this to work I *THINK* you will need to have the AW specialisation to make your magic stat = your str stat (so you don't need str to have weapons equipped), and if you're getting low on cash, theres a neat little trick to do with merchants, left click+hold on your most expensive item, right click+hold on it aswell, drag it over to the merchant's inventory and realease both mouse buttons at the same time, rebuy it and repeat!



I would go with massive armour, maybe something like cailans or juggernaught armour set with the Nug Crusher, Key to the City, Life Giver, Andruil's Blessing which should do well for you, but they're just some basic items that I get every run through, there are probably better mage-specific armours & items.



I think the first three (atleast the middle two) is found in Orzammar, and Andruil's Blessing is found at the Circle of Magi shopkeeper guy... (he's just inside the tower, in a place where aren't trapped until you've resqued the tower).



30-50 Will should be enough for all of your needs, with all other stats staying at base except for magic, which, as Jamess has said, should be boosted as much as possible.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

What I'm wondering is whether the core defensive and offensive attributes of weapons and armor matter. Also, if a weapon is socketed, do the runes affect damage at all? Dragon Age Wiki made it sound like the answer is "no", but I'm not sure.



BTW, one of my other mages has low strength and dexterity, and when she shapeshifts into a bear or a spider, she inflicts very little damage, even though her magic is high. She only inflicts substantial damage when in 'swarm' form, and that nature damage doesn't affect all enemies.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Ahhh! Killpills09 mentioned the AW specialization. Perfect! All I'll need to learn is 'combat magic'. I'll never activate it, but it won't matter, since strength will be substituted by magic. That way I can have great gear AND high spellpower while in animal form.

[killpillz09]

You might need to put more points into the AW skills than just one, but otherwise it should work... (you *MAY* need to activate CM to wear it, havn't made an AW yet)



ShapeShifter is pretty straight forward after the first 10-15 levels, which is due to the fact that you should have most of the skills needed to be an effective shapeshifter (all sustainables are de-activated when you shapeshift), so Awakening would be mainly pumping points into magic and killing enemies, no real use for all of the other skills which you probably won't use (glyphs, hexes and sleep/mass paralysis might be openers, but otherwise you'd probably want to stay in one of the forms available)



I find it sad that a shapeshifting centric build is really straightforward and easy to use due to the fact that when you've shifted form, you can't sustain other spells or cast spells... but it would be an interesting playthrough due to it being such a small and straightforward way of playing this game, making it a challenge.



Goodluck to you sir and it would be interesting if you could make a thread documenting your progress (because I find the character updating system to be... iffy and it would be much more interesting to see what someone sais about such a playthrough as they experience it) though you don't have to. and it's a z not an s =D

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Thanx killpills9. Unfortunately, all sustainable spells are deactivated when you shapeshift, including combat magic.





According to DA Wiki, shapeshifters overall do very poor damage because of the fact that, unlike what the tooltip for Shapeshifter says, it does not actually use magic to calculate damage. It also said that form-centric shapeshifters need strength and dexterity. My previous mage was at level 25, and had a magic of 45. She still inflicted little damage in bear or spider form. She is primarily a spirit healer, but I decided to make shapeshifting her secondary spec. Despite having a magic of 45, her strength was only 11, and her weapon was just a staff. The only form that she inflicted significant damage with was her swarm form.

[DWSmiley]

Courtesy TBastien:



The forms are all spellpower dependent. Their stats are based on spellpower, and at high spellpower levels both Spider and Bear can reach good dex and con. Their str values are low-mediocre but as the game progresses you should be relying less on their normal attacks on more on their skills like Overwhelm, their immunities and your spells.



So if you pick Shapeshifter, you'll want to focus almost entirely on magic. This makes a primal spells Shapeshifter a very powerful character - anything that doesn't die to its magic gets killed by its forms (even your allies, but that's where Spirit Healer comes in). The form’s damage relies on its stats + the base damage, damage modifier and armor penetration of the weapon your character is currently using. To boost your form’s damage you can simply equip the most basic weapon you can find. Low str two-handed weapons are recommended, since the form’s attack speeds are independent of your own. Using a staff before shifting prevents you from missing but also prevents you from performing criticals. A staff doesn't add anything to your damage.



Your form’s toughness depends on its stats, specific bonuses and your gear. While the forms improve your survivability, if there was little to improve in the first place then don't expect miracles. If your mage focused on +def items or dodge items though, then your forms will optimize these, boosting them with its own stats and bonuses.



The dex/con increase due to spellpower is significant but the str increase is mediocre. This should not be a problem though. At early game the spider's attack speed + a two handed weapon basically makes it a two-hander that attacks as fast as a dual-wielder and it has other skills besides. The Bear can easily reach 30 armor with the right setup by Lothering. In late game your spells should be deadly enough that if anything survives you only need your forms' special skills to finish them off. Bear also becomes powerful enough to be a decent meleer, a serious DPSer with Overwhelm spam.



Shapeshifter/AW is suboptimal. None of the AW sustaineds are carried over when Shapeshifting. Check the difference in damage between tier 1 weapons and tier 7 weapons - it's only around 7 points. Since the forms ignore almost all offense mods, taking AW just so you can increase your damage by 7 points is not a good idea. You don't need heavy armor. Some of the best def/dodge and resistance gear in the game are mage/universal gear and these are optimized by the forms' bonuses. Each form grants particular bonuses and immunities: spider has very high dex, bear gives +10 armor, and the swarm has 40% displacement. Spider and Bear are immune to knockdown but not knockback. Swarm is immune to both, and traps.



Try out a Shapeshifter/Spirit Healer with good mage gear (here's a list: Reaper's Vestments, First Enchanter's Cowl, Imperial Weavers, Spellward, Lifegiver).



The Spider deals well with anything vulnerable to nature damage. Use Poison Spit/Overwhelm/Web/Poison Spit in that order. The overall damage + disable time should be enough to kill off most annoyances. That final Web should disable your target in case you need to unshift. Unshift as soon as the Poison Spit projectile leaves your character. Cast your spells after - you should have around 2-3 seconds to spam your spells before your target breaks free. This form also works well on bosses, if only to disable, as many bosses are immune to nature damage.



The Bear is the boss killer. You'll want to use Rage (+10 str) before Overwhelming a boss (use a staff if it's high armored, any other weapon otherwise). Then use Slam on it to knock it back if you need to unshift (unshift as soon as the enemy flies away). Cast your spells after and if you unshift fast enough you can pop a Fireball just as your target hits the ground after Slam. Note that Slam draws about as much aggro from the target as Taunt.



The Swarm is a nice follow up to Bear, since you can kite just about anything with it (Bear will have aggro’d your target). It is immune to ranged weapons (except auto-hit skills and magic damage), ideal for dealing with archers. In case something goes wrong, it's also your panic button. Avoid using its skill unless absolutely necessary. The skill has a mental resistance check (making it useful against most mobs) but it can potentially end Swarm form (costs ~40 mana).



The forms are immune to knockdown. Spider and Bear can be knocked back, although what you'll see is a knockdown animation. Use a warmth Balm if you're fighting something with fire attacks, before using Spider/Swarm. These forms have fire resistance penalties. Swarm is immune to both knockdown and knockback. It can fly over traps without triggering them.



Do not hesitate to use the forms as soon as you can if you're fighting something with knockdown skills (Ogres, werewolves) or if you have to fight something your human form will not survive (scattered archers with Arrows of Slaying, something with grab/overwhelm). Spamming Overwhelm on enemies immune to it will cause you to spam normal attacks almost on top of each other.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Thanks DWSmiley, but according to Dragon Age Wiki, unlike what it says in the game, damage is not determined by spellpower. My reasoning for taking the AW spec as a second was only to enable me to wear heavy duty gear without increasing strength. So, all I would do is learn 'combat magic', and I'd never even activate the aura.

[DWSmiley]

That's right, damage isn't affected by spellpower. I didn't repost everything TBastien figured out but his point was that AW doesn't add much to a shapeshifter as dodge gear + rock armor + arcane shield is already very durable and even moreso when shapeshifted. There's more synergy out of being a Spirit Healer.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

DWSmiley wrote...

That's right, damage isn't affected by spellpower. I didn't repost everything TBastien figured out but his point was that AW doesn't add much to a shapeshifter as dodge gear + rock armor + arcane shield is already very durable and even moreso when shapeshifted. There's more synergy out of being a Spirit Healer.

So, if a shapeshifter is going to spend most of his time as an animal, strength is more important than magic? Good weapons and armor are better than robes and a staff?

[DWSmiley]

Ah, it's quite different if you want to play a shapeshifter as almost its own class.  As a specialization, shapeshifter works best to mop up after you've nuked the monsters with your spells and, like any mage, it's best to pump spellpower almost exclusively (which also boosts your shapes).  But if you intend to be mostly fighting in animal form, then it does work well to put a lot of points in strength.  X-president did a lot of research into that style of play.  See his thread here:

http://social.biowar...66/index/739982

Modifié par DWSmiley, 15 octobre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Yeah, the shapeshifter spec doesn't work well unless you make that your primary focus. My reasoning for taking AW as a second was so that, if my magic ended up being higher than my strength, then I could have more options for weapons and armor. I'd never even activate 'combat magic', but just learning it allows the strength prerequisites for gear to be substituted by magic. As an animal, he wouldn't be able to use spirit healer spells or blood magic spells, so the only other spec that would make sense is AW. Primal spells would be learned, but I'd use one of them right before I shapeshift.  By big question now is: Do the core damage and defense values for weapons and armor factor into the damage and defense while in animal form?

Modifié par Sir Pounce-a-lot, 16 octobre 2010 - 03:11 .

[tonnactus]

If the staff is used,when shifted,it could be worth it,regarding the high armor penetration values.I see,this was answered already...

Modifié par tonnactus, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:26 .

[DWSmiley]

tonnactus wrote...

If the staff is used,when shifted,it could be worth it,regarding the high armor penetration values.I see,this was answered already...

It's a trade-off.
Staff = never misses and high a.p. but adds nothing to damage.
Ser Jory's greatsword = about +12 damage and a chance for critical hits.

[lorvincent]

Note to make about AW/Shapeshifter:

*ANYTHING WITH AN "(A)" BEFORE IT IS AN AWAKENING ITEM*

First Enchanter's Cowl: 4% Spell
10% Dodge Attacks
Reaper's Vestiments: 16% Spell
10% Dodge Attacks
Ancient Elven Gloves: 4% Spell
Key to the City: 4% Spell
(A)Soulbound: 20% Spell
(A)Worn Golden Ring: 10% Dodge Attack
The Spellward: 30% Spell
10% Dodge Attacks
Havard's Aegis: 4% Spell
(A)Mage Hunter: 8% Spell
(A)Voice of velvet: 25% Dodge Attacks
Spellweaver: 10% Spell
(A)Vigilance(Custom): 10% Dodge Attacks
(A)Evasion Rune: 5% Dodge Attacks
Grandmaster Dweomer Rune: 10% Spell
(A)Masterpiece Dweomer Rune: 12% Spell

This is a list of most (though not all) of the gear available for spell resistances and dodging. As you can see, it is incredibly easy to make a mage that is completely immune to spells and has 100% dodge; however, since Knock Back/Down skills function as specialty skills that bypass the 100% dodge, being a shifter is extremely useful.

To make a nearly invincible character, everything you need is above. I suggest utilizing the 40% dodge of the Flying Swarm once you have 100% spell resistance or at least suitable fire/spell resistances to get you by.

AW is useful because it opens up a lot of these weapons for use. Personally, I like it because I want to end Awakening with Vigilance, and it lets me equip more spell/dodge items in Origins too, though it isn't necessary.

Modifié par lorvincent, 06 mars 2011 - 10:13 .