247 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Saibh wrote...
I do believe I'll miss talking to my companions whenever. We did get information about henchmen being able to talk to NPCs for you, so hopefully the DA2 companions will react more to their surroundings than the ME2 squaddies did.

Keep in mind that Mass Effect has never really done party banter like DA, and we also have the "comments on the environment" in addition to that, as well as more interjections into conversation. Whether this serves to make the followers feel like like automotons to the former poster, I can't really say.

[Champion1]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

but for certain occasions, will hawke and party members have non-battle attire? i mean, in DAO it felt a bit strange seeing the warden sleeping in full armor and waking after sex already wearing armor. 

I hope so, it'd be weird to see someone at their house wearing full armor.  Hawke is one thing, but I hope everyone else has casual outfits for when they aren't in the party.

[Lord_Valandil]

David Gaider wrote...

Saibh wrote...
I do believe I'll miss talking to my companions whenever. We did get information about henchmen being able to talk to NPCs for you, so hopefully the DA2 companions will react more to their surroundings than the ME2 squaddies did.

Keep in mind that Mass Effect has never really done party banter like DA, and we also have the "comments on the environment" in addition to that, as well as more interjections into conversation. Whether this serves to make the followers feel like like automotons to the former poster, I can't really say.

So far, all the information sounds really cool.
Thanks Mr. Gaider.

[Chaia]

Champion1 wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

but for certain occasions, will hawke and party members have non-battle attire? i mean, in DAO it felt a bit strange seeing the warden sleeping in full armor and waking after sex already wearing armor. 

I hope so, it'd be weird to see someone at their house wearing full armor.  Hawke is one thing, but I hope everyone else has casual outfits for when they aren't in the party.

I've been wondering about this, and it would make more sense if they had casual clothing on in their own houses/work areas.

EDIT: also it would be nice if Hawke has casual clothing on in his/her own house.

Modifié par Chaia, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:58 .

[Champion1]

Blasto the jelly wrote...

We Know that each of your companions live in there own part of Kirkwall.
so will Hawke walk around Kirkwall buying items.and interacting With Various Npc without his/her Companions?

It sounds like there will be parts of Kirkwall that will be like the camp in that you won't have companions with you, even if it's just inside another companion's house.  Maybe this will be the default and the action in Kirkwall (assuming there is any) will happen in different areas that you do bring your party along, or maybe most areas you'll have your companions but they'll wait outside sometimes.

Modifié par Champion1, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:57 .

[Cipher266]

Thanks David

[Merced256]

David Gaider wrote...

Dileos wrote...
Thanks David. It seems like DA2 isn't going to be nearly as bad as the doomsayers make it out to be.

They're really only commenting on what they can see, but they certainly seem to do it in the context as if there's nothing else there-- which is easy to do, when you put such features under a microscope. As it is, I'm sure there are people on both sides of the argument who are busy making something out of nothing.

As it is, there's a lot to enjoy with the followers in DA2-- it's a bit different, and I think having to go to their home to initiate the lengthier dialogues might take some getting used to, but overall I'd say it's on par with what you're all familiar with in DAO.

So in other words its a carbon copy of ME2's system except kirkwall is the normandy?

[Saibh]

Merced256 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Dileos wrote...
Thanks David. It seems like DA2 isn't going to be nearly as bad as the doomsayers make it out to be.

They're really only commenting on what they can see, but they certainly seem to do it in the context as if there's nothing else there-- which is easy to do, when you put such features under a microscope. As it is, I'm sure there are people on both sides of the argument who are busy making something out of nothing.

As it is, there's a lot to enjoy with the followers in DA2-- it's a bit different, and I think having to go to their home to initiate the lengthier dialogues might take some getting used to, but overall I'd say it's on par with what you're all familiar with in DAO.

So in other words its a carbon copy of ME2's system except kirkwall is the normandy?

It seems you can think of it like that. I, do, however, think that party banter + more conversations + party barks + NPC conversation interjections will prove to be a superior amalgam of the two games. Ultimately the only thing they're removing is the ability to talk wherever you like (er, it seems). I think saying it's a carbon copy is a tad negative.

[Ivers0803]

you have some meat and a bun put them together and you get something better
meat: the substance, DA
Bun: the little touch that cleans it up, ME

Modifié par Ivers0803, 12 octobre 2010 - 10:55 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Brockololly wrote...
lace. I guess you could have had more location specific camps, like how you had Arl Eamon's estate in Denerim. But yeah, seeing as DA2 is just 10 years in Hawke's life, it might be creepy if every companion just mooched at Chateau Hawke for 10 years.

And just like the BioWare forums, they say incredibly derogatory things about women.

[Brockololly]

Saibh wrote...

Merced256 wrote...
So in other words its a carbon copy of ME2's system except kirkwall is the normandy?

It seems you can think of it like that. I, do, however, think that party banter + more conversations + party barks + NPC conversation interjections will prove to be a superior amalgam of the two games. Ultimately the only thing they're removing is the ability to talk wherever you like (er, it seems). I think saying it's a carbon copy is a tad negative.

Or think of Kirkwall as a really big camp?

I'm very curious to see how DA2 can hopefully improve on ME2's wheel and everything with the voiced PC. I'm guessing that when you click on a companion now they'll just give you a somehwat generic bark, which meh. The one thing I really loved about Origins and thought was better than any other game to date was the dialogue system- sure it could have used some tweaks but its a shame to see the full text be thrown out the window  instead of being worked on and improved.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Brockololly wrote...

Sounds a little like BG2 where certain companions would go to a specific spot if they weren't in the active party, except now its more like they have their own specific spot just for them to go to.

I"m wondering if all of the companions will have residences in Kirkwall or if some live outside Kirkwall. Just seems that if there isn't some sort of fast travel or something it could just be like an even more extended version of making the rounds at camp- just replace everyone being all in one spot at camp, now they're spread out across the city.
Kind of sad to see camp go if thats the case then- the nice thing in Origins was having the motley crew of people from different backgrounds having to deal with each other at camp and that provided a good source of the banter.

This, I kinda figured this would be the  case to begin with. So instead of having a small camp site that makes it easier to get to all companions quickly, we now have a larger "campsite" that doesn't look like a campsite. Progress!

[Mike Laidlaw]

Saibh wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Really, the onle bad news in this thread is that we can't talk to our companions out in the world. It bothers me doubly that the decision was driven by cinematics.

I'm actually really pleased about it for that reason--the characters in ME2 felt infinitely more real when they interacted with their environments and each other. More alive, not just props that stood up and moved their mouths. The conversations in DAO felt very static in comparison--there wasn't a whole lot of value in hearing a line said more than once, since once you heard how it was voiced, it became quickly boring.

Correct. Placing the characters means that we can have them be infinitely more memorable, and interactive. The decision was not driven by cinematics, it was driven by an urge for more effective delivery of important, character-focused information. Which is to say, it was Design's call.

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

I'm actually really pleased about it for that reason--the characters in ME2 felt infinitely more real when they interacted with their environments and each other. More alive, not just props that stood up and moved their mouths. The conversations in DAO felt very static in comparison--there wasn't a whole lot of value in hearing a line said more than once, since once you heard how it was voiced, it became quickly boring.

Since the camera movement, character placement and the backgrounds don't change in ME2 either between the playthroughs i think the same complaint can be made towards them -- there isn't a whole lot of value in seeing them more than once, since once you seen how it plays out, that's it. As such it gets boring just as quick.

There's difference in how static they feel, granted, but that has little impact on replayability, since they are equally fixed, so to speak.

Modifié par tmp7704, 13 octobre 2010 - 01:11 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

David Gaider wrote...

Utoryo wrote...
But... I'm not a fan of the Awakenings model of moving so many conversations exclusively to the keep, and in this case it'd be even worse as you'd have to move around to talk to different followers. Will there be many conversations you can only have with followers at their home base? Or will be there some kind of separation between 'safe zones' where you can talk freely and ones where you can't?

The majority of the personal dialogue can only take place in their home base-- insofar as the ones you initiate, anyhow. If you click on the followers elsewhere they will have comments to make, or a suggestion that you go somewhere more private (ie. their home base) if they have something they want to discuss with you. The reasoning for this is primarily cinematics, to avoid the "talking head syndrome" which is required if you're able to talk to someone anywhere (meaning that you need a fixed camera up close, or else the camera could end up clipping inside the environment or ending up otherwise looking very awkward). This also allows us to set up situations where you followers are interacting with each other at their home and other sorts of things... it's kind of interesting, you'll see.

There's no "click on the environment for conversation" as in Awakening though, no. We contemplated that for a while, but I think there were just too many logistical problems with making that intuitive enough for many people to follow. As it is, there's still lots of banter and environmental comments-- we might revisit the environments triggers again, but if we did so I think it'd need to be something you click and someone in your party talks to you about it (or at least makes a comment) rather than only one specific person.

Just add a party banter button, like prince of persia 2008.

[Sandtigress]

Did anybody else play Star Ocean 2? The conversation implementation sounds a lot like that - when you entered a town, your party would split up and you could find them and initiate personal conversations with them when you found them. It was actually a ton of fun, and the party members usually had types of places you would find them in i.e. you always looked for Ashton around barrels because he was fascinated by them.



It was a very entertaining way to find out more about your party members, even if it was annoying if you couldn't always find them. So I'm really looking forward to companion interactions like this, I think it has lots of potential!

[Saibh]

tmp7704 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I'm actually really pleased about it for that reason--the characters in ME2 felt infinitely more real when they interacted with their environments and each other. More alive, not just props that stood up and moved their mouths. The conversations in DAO felt very static in comparison--there wasn't a whole lot of value in hearing a line said more than once, since once you heard how it was voiced, it became quickly boring.

Since the camera movement, character placement and the backgrounds don't change in ME2 either between the playthroughs i think the same complaint can be made towards them -- there isn't a whole lot of value in seeing them more than once, since once you seen how it plays out, that's it. As such it gets boring just as quick.

There's difference in how static they feel, granted, but that has little impact on replayability, since they are equally fixed, so to speak.

I'm sure not everyone agrees with me, but I simply mean that since the conversations look more engaging, they are more engrossing to watch again and again. A film taken from one angle would hardly be watchable the first time, let only alone the second or third. Games are different by benefiting from being player driven, but I think--in the instance of cutscene conversations--parallels can be drawn.

Besides that, it's mostly about lifelessness. You know how Alistair is all "I love you, and I will prove this by moving closer to within arm's reach of you." I don't know if you ever did that half-romance with Samara in ME2, but remember when you walk to the window, grasp hands and smile at each other in front of the starry expanse of space? That was a great moment. Imagine the same moment with the camera cemented at a 45º angle from her head. Sure, the words and intent are still there, but it doesn't pack the same feeling, the same mood.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:08 .

[RevilFox]

David Gaider wrote...



It depends on the follower in question, and why they're around-- not to mention what their relationship is with your PC.

Hold the phone...are you saying that your compainions "home base" may change depending on the relationship they have with the PC? So, to take some random example, like...oh, say a love interest, they might come and live with your PC at some point?

[Brockololly]

Saibh wrote...
I'm sure not everyone agrees with me, but I simply mean that since the conversations look more engaging, they are more engrossing to watch again and again. A film taken from one angle would hardly be watchable the first time, let only the second or third. Games are different by benefiting from being player driven, but I think--in the instance of cutscene conversations--parallels can be drawn.

Besides that, it's mostly about lifelessness. You know how Alistair is all "I love you, and I will prove this by moving closer to within arm's reach of you." I don't know if you ever did that half-romance with Samara in ME2, but remember when you walk to the window, grasp hands and smile at each other in front of the starry expanse of space? That was a great moment. Imagine the same moment with the camera cemented at a 45º angle from her head. Sure, the words and intent are still there, but it doesn't pack the same feeling, the same mood.

I understand and welcome some more variety in how the conversations are presented, but personally, I don't play the game over or go through a plot over again because the camera angle was wicked awesome. I do it because the dialogue and characters were awesome and deep. So yeah, Samara's little half romance was indeed awesome, but it was memorable for me because of Samara's character- the nitty gritty of the setting and all is just fluff. When I'm replaying it, the cutesy camera angles and stuff wear thin pretty quickly.

Thats fine if they want to make it more movie like and all, but at the same time I'd much rather have had MOAR! dialogue with Samara rather than MOAR! cinematic camera angles, but thats just me. I thought Origins was cinematic enough. Because for every nice cinematic scene like Samara in front of the stars, you get a stinker like this:

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

I think it would be safe to say that even those of us who appreciate the cinematic direction Bioware is taken don't really appreciate being beaten over the head with shots like that.

We get it. Miranda is hot. Don't need to imagine the virtual cameraman zooming in on her ass as he breathes heavily.

And the Jacob romance was just... creepy.  On several different levels.  But I chalk that up to execution and not some indictment of the cinematic style.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:16 .

[AlanC9]

You've got a problem with Miranda's butt?

[Brockololly]

AlanC9 wrote...
You've got a problem with Miranda's butt?

When its being shoved in my face against my will? Yeah, when staring at Miranda's butt has absolutely nothing to do with her talking about her sister, yes, I think thats kind of stupid and pointless.

[Champion1]

RevilFox wrote...

David Gaider wrote...



It depends on the follower in question, and why they're around-- not to mention what their relationship is with your PC.

Hold the phone...are you saying that your compainions "home base" may change depending on the relationship they have with the PC? So, to take some random example, like...oh, say a love interest, they might come and live with your PC at some point?

The game takes place over a decade, so I don't think a LI moving in with Hawke is such a stretch if things are going really well after a few time-skips.  I actually really like the idea.  And if Hawke is gaining political power at some point, maybe he can throw a companion he doesn't like into a one-room house in the slums

[Saibh]

Brockololly wrote...

Saibh wrote...
I'm sure not everyone agrees with me, but I simply mean that since the conversations look more engaging, they are more engrossing to watch again and again. A film taken from one angle would hardly be watchable the first time, let only the second or third. Games are different by benefiting from being player driven, but I think--in the instance of cutscene conversations--parallels can be drawn.

Besides that, it's mostly about lifelessness. You know how Alistair is all "I love you, and I will prove this by moving closer to within arm's reach of you." I don't know if you ever did that half-romance with Samara in ME2, but remember when you walk to the window, grasp hands and smile at each other in front of the starry expanse of space? That was a great moment. Imagine the same moment with the camera cemented at a 45º angle from her head. Sure, the words and intent are still there, but it doesn't pack the same feeling, the same mood.

I understand and welcome some more variety in how the conversations are presented, but personally, I don't play the game over or go through a plot over again because the camera angle was wicked awesome. I do it because the dialogue and characters were awesome and deep. So yeah, Samara's little half romance was indeed awesome, but it was memorable for me because of Samara's character- the nitty gritty of the setting and all is just fluff. When I'm replaying it, the cutesy camera angles and stuff wear thin pretty quickly.

Thats fine if they want to make it more movie like and all, but at the same time I'd much rather have had MOAR! dialogue with Samara rather than MOAR! cinematic camera angles, but thats just me. I thought Origins was cinematic enough. Because for every nice cinematic scene like Samara in front of the stars, you get a stinker like this:

If it's story vs. cinematics, I pick story every time. So, I agree with you whole-heartedly. I also believe that one does not necessarily sacrifice the other. I think that some elements are going to be removed (well, have been removed), but I don't think overall depth and quality need be sacrificed. I brought up the Samara thing specifically because the scene was enhanced by camera angles and character interactions in a way a static cutscene wouldn't have been.

I think they can combine the best of both worlds to create a better experience. Simply sacrificing the ability to talk anywhere isn't such a high price--at least not to me. I'll miss it, but if it means improvements in other areas, I'm willing to trust that I'll prefer the changes. I also keep in mind that because of the timeline of the game, DA2 should improve upon the midgame conversation droughts of DAO.

Brockololly wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
You've got a problem with Miranda's butt?

When its being shoved in my face against my will? Yeah, when staring at Miranda's butt has absolutely nothing to do with her talking about her sister, yes, I think thats kind of stupid and pointless.

Hell, even FemShep's jumblies get shoved in your face, to the point where it's really apparent when playing as a ManShep what the camera angle was going for.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:37 .