194 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

I think there's a little bit of righteous indignation in this thread to go all around.  Based upon that fact, I hope you forgive me for any self-righteousness or righteous indignation in my post  :

The fact is there are going to be people upset about things implemented in games like this, others who will like it and others like me who don't really care.  I find as long as there's a toggle on/off in the immersive breaking options menu i'm fine.  Even if there isn't and the DLC NPC is completely out of character, it's not as immersive breaking as someone yelling up to me to cook dinner while i'm in an epic battle.

Does that mean anyone for or don't care about this NPC, which you have the option to talk to in the first place, who may have a toggle to turn on or off are just lemmings who are supporting an evil corperate scheme and must be taken down with their machiavellian EA masters?  No of course not, because their views are just as valid.  10-15 ago I didn't think we would be treating games so seriously.  I blame it on MMOs...  Especially Ultima Online (PvPers vs. "Care Bears" debate forever).

There's complaining (Expressing a negative opinion based off experience), then there's whining (Expressing an ongoing negative opinion based off assumptions and incomplete information regardless of new facts) and then there's constructive criticism (Expressing critical views on facts, giving the benefit of the doubt to others and minimizing assumptions in order to find out the truth or solutions).  I find there's a lot of the complaining and whining in society as a whole these days and not nearly enough constructive criticism, but that's another issue.

/End of self-righteousness and righteous indignation.

Nothing makes Developers feel better to make changes when people start threads over and over which have 90% of the facts wrong and are arguing for things which are already implemented.  Or even worse, arguing for things that are completely anti-common sense.  I'm not saying this thread is the same, but we have to remember  game devs/publishers are companies that try to make money, not public servants.  If you don't like the direction of a product, don't buy it.  If DLCs stop selling, companies will stop making DLCs.  If hordes of people don't buy DOA because of a DLC NPC added every couple of months, then they will take them out.

In the end life is unfair and so are games because other people play them too.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 25 octobre 2009 - 03:25 .

[slmisfit]

valleyman88 wrote...
As for the slippery slope fallacy, here what David gaider posted on the other forums:

I'll point out that the in-game "offer", as it were, doesn't use out-of-game language. You are offered a quest, or a journal entry, the same way that you would get any other quest. No turning to the camera and offering you a delicious Coke or anything of the like. If you accept, you are briefly taken to the DLC page to grab the content -- if you have not already done so. If you have, you won't even notice the difference. It will also be a simple enough matter to refuse the quest -- you don't have to endure a commercial.

Picturing scenarios where there are in-game neon billboards and NPC Shamwow salesmen trying to lure you conveniently into spending more money, and then railing against it, is a bit over the top. (It's the internet, though, right? Who'd have thought?)

Although I do like the idea of the Shamwow guy as a pushy dwarven merchant, now. Hmm. I'll have to make a note of that.  

It's a way to insert the DLC into the overall game, nothing more. If you don't like the idea even of that interface (I suppose some people are going to object to the notion of DLC daring to sully their gaming experience no matter what), then that's up to you -- but at least get it straight what you are objecting to.

I've never uttered this word before, but it seems to fit this thread perfectly;

Chillax.

Like I said in the thread on the DA forums: I'll be able to tolerate this, as long as I'm able to remove the quests from my journal if I accidentally accept them. One of my biggest peeves is having a quest that I can't (or won't) complete sitting there in my journal forever and ever amen.

I will say, however, that it's kinda ridiculous to have the DLC quest givers in the game when you don't have the DLC in the first place. They're supposed to be part of the DLC, but yet they're in the base game... why? Because they want another way to remind you that there's DLC you don't have that you can fork your moolah over for. Seriously, the quest givers for the DLCs should NOT be in the base game. They should be something that's part of the DLC, that is activated when you buy and enable said DLC.

Modifié par blasphemae, 25 octobre 2009 - 03:27 .

[BoomWav]

Just wait and see. As devs said, it's not as bad as some people make it seems. People are afraid of change. Next year, a game will be released and people will whine that this kind of feature is not in.

[tulukaruk]

Hamarabi2006 wrote...
Whether or not this will be immersion breaking is purely subjective, therefore, all of the insults in the world will not strengthen your argument.

The point people are trying to make is that if you give an inch they take a mile.  In-game advertising should never be acceptable in any form.  The 15 minutes of advertising you speak of always shows up on TV movies which are free to view.  That is an entirely different story than a movie that you purchased and brought home to watch.  In this case, no advertising should ever be present after the movie starts.

How calling lazy or stupid someone who instead of confirming if something is wrong chooses to whine in whining thread is an insult?
I totally agree with definitions posted by Balek-Vriege. And this thread falls directly into whining category.

The point people are trying to make is off because they have no idea (nor will to get it) how will it look in the game.

As I said before - I'm not fan of DLC NPCes and I wish there was a toggle to turn them off (dunno if there is one or not). But instead of posting same thing again and again I've read Devs explanations and decided to wait and see how it will turn out. After all if Devs says it wont be immersion breaking all I can do is to believe them. And if someone don't believe what Devs says what's the point of posting in the first place other then whining?

[slmisfit]

BoomWav wrote...
Just wait and see. As devs said, it's not as bad as some people make it seems. People are afraid of change. Next year, a game will be released and people will whine that this kind of feature is not in.

Yeah... I doubt that. A quest giver offering me a quest that don't have the required DLC for, then being taken to a page to buy the DLC if I accepted because it wasn't made ESPECIALLY clear that the quest being offered was DLC only is not my cup of tea.

Has it been said exactly how you'll know if the quest being offered is DLC? The quest giver apparently won't break the 4th wall, so does that mean the "yes, I will take this quest" reply will have a "(WARNING: You do not have the required DLC for this quest!)" tacked on the end of it, or what?

[starwind99]

Does not matter how they will do it If a overlay pops up covering the game it will break immersion. if a window pops up in the background my game will minimalize Immersion broken. How the hell else can they do it? Is it just some bloke that tells you he can take you to wardens keep but then nothing happens Then whats the sodding point of having him in game?

[Rodro Lliv]

Since it seems there is some confusion about the system, here you have two threads where Biodevs have talked about DLC:
www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/695995
www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/696280
And the current discussion: www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/700769

Fernando Melo mentioned in one of the posts that they're working on a walkthrough guide for this. I hope they can upload it to the website before the launch week, so people can read and understand how the actual DLC system works.

Modifié par Rodro Lliv, 25 octobre 2009 - 04:18 .

[kansadoom]

Thanks thats a lot better it sounds ok now

[PriscilaSSR]

I think NPC-salesman is bad for immersion, true. But it also makes sense if you consider the whole context... Thus far they're finding creative ways to combat piracy (offering bonus content that is only accessible by official ways is a hell of good way to convince pirates to buy if they care about the product) and divulging/giving bonus content while finding ways to help us past the time (DA:J, CC). I think is positive. The whole "answer our survey and gain a bonus item" is actually a win-win for us, if you really think about it... Why? Well, because they learn what WE want, thus making a better game and a long-term gain for us and at the same time we have an instant gratification. If it is so annoying to answer some questions, well, then don't do it.



On the subject of the in-game NPC-sales guy... While it may seem like a "greedy" move, I think is quite reasonable. A pirate will find himself face to face with the reality of a content the he/she will only get by spending money (And pirates are all about having things easy and quickly)... And a person who doesn't go to the forums/official site will have a opportunity to learn about the DLC while not having to go very far to buy. While the rest of us... Well, I think I will buy any new content the moment it arrives, so the NPC luckily will not offer me something that I already have



Finally I trust Bioware. I don't they'll make something that could break the immersion. If in the long run that happens, well... Then I will start really complaining. Until then I think if it helps Bioware makes more money and transform DA:O in a huge sucess (in the long run too), then I'm happy. (If that makes sense).

[Arandomindividual]

DLC Salesmen up in-game.. nice touch.. real "epic".

[kansadoom]

If you read the article he doesnt say anything about it if you accept the quest it just brings you up to a dlc purchase page. Really some people were blowing this out of proportion its not like there going to say IC Do you want this awesome quest with epic magic and mystery then please buy this DLC for 7$

[slmisfit]

Rodro Lliv wrote...

Since it seems there is some confusion about the system, here you have two threads where Biodevs have talked about DLC:
www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/695995
www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/696280
And the current discussion: www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/700769

Fernando Melo mentioned in one of the posts that they're working on a walkthrough guide for this. I hope they can upload it to the website before the launch week, so people can read and understand how the actual DLC system works.

As long as there's no chance for me to accidentally accept the quest and then have it stuck in my journal for the rest of the game, I'll be able to at least tolerate it.

[crevus]

I agree with Ekardt...as long as the game is good I am going to pay for it...believe me I paid much more for games that truly dissapointed me (Oblivion for example where DLC were not worth heir money because much better mods existed)...if Bioware want my cash they should contiune to make good games...also maybe in the final game NPCs won't directely ask you to pay cash for DLC...maybe they will say they are busy or, I don't know, something that doesn't break immersion but tells you about the DLC...they'll have to think of something...

Modifié par crevus, 25 octobre 2009 - 04:51 .

[kansadoom]

RGC_Ines wrote...

kansadoom wrote...
If you read the article he doesnt say anything about it if you accept the quest it just brings you up to a dlc purchase page.

hmm..really? It's exactly what I was affraid..if You accept the quest You are briefly taken to the DLC page to grab the content ..that's what David Gaider said on DA:O forum on BioWare web site...here link:
http://daforums.biow...00769&forum=135

Hmm well I was afraid more of that if you talk to the npc that gives the quest he would start talking about DLC if you talked to him and you hadnt bought the software, seems like we were afraid of different things

[Ekardt]

I think everyone is just tensed up because the game is coming out soon. Ive lol'ed at so many posts in this thread its ridiculous, considering no one here was trying to be funny. If this feature caused you to cancel your preorder... well I dont think video games are for you to begin with, but thanks for the good laugh.



Too many sandy vaginas in this thread for my taste. As has been stated, we need a couple shipments of chill pills. Lucy, look at this legion of bloodthirsty monsters youve created!

[KethWolfheart]

Rodro Lliv wrote...

Since it seems there is some confusion about the system, here you have two threads where Biodevs have talked about DLC:
www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/695995
www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/696280
And the current discussion: www.dragonagecentral.com/thread/700769

Fernando Melo mentioned in one of the posts that they're working on a walkthrough guide for this. I hope they can upload it to the website before the launch week, so people can read and understand how the actual DLC system works.

Thanks very much for those links - sometimes it can be hard to dig this information up.

After reading all of those posts I will back down somewhat - it doesn't sound to bad and it does sound like they are providing ways to get the content that is not immersion breaking to me.

I mean I won't deny I would prefer not seeing the special NPC's until I buy and install the content.  But I see the point they tried to make about making adding new content in a seamless manner.  Still MMORPG do that through patches at the begining of the game.

However I can deal with the way they are doing it as long as it is as unobtrusive as they say.  I certainly like seeing more content - I just prefer it happen without any type of "in your face" advertising.  Maybe this will work out much better than first glance.

Modifié par KethWolfheart, 25 octobre 2009 - 05:25 .

[RagnarokALE]

First I have to ask where was it confirmed that there would be in-game NPCs telling you to go get the DLC? I haven't read every post so just asking here.

--Edit-- I see where it's been confirmed and I still don't like it.

Second, I have to voice my support against this, when I purchase a game, I'm not looking for an advertising medium. I want to play the game and enjoy myself away from all of that.If there is DLC I'm ok with that if it's not some thing that's going to prevent me from enjoying the main game content, it needs to be simply bonus content.

If I am buying a game, I expect to buy a whole and complete game, otherwise if there is going to be adds in the game, or I am going to be missing out on some important feature of the game, then the game itself should be free and beyond that the DLC can be paid for.

Put the DLC notices on the launch screen, let us know it's available. Allow us to purchase the content from there. If you need to let us know where to go to find that content, give us something when we purchase it, or post it on the website. DO NOT put some NPC in the game to tell us that we have to go and buy this to gain access. I don't like seeing adds in games I pay for, nor do I like the interruption to the game play. I love what BioWare produces, but if this becomes a trend I won't be buying their games, or the game of anyone else that does it.

Modifié par RagnarokALE, 25 octobre 2009 - 05:39 .

[kansadoom]

RagnarokALE wrote...

First I have to ask where was it confirmed that there would be in-game NPCs telling you to go get the DLC? I haven't read every post so just asking here.

Second, I have to voice my support against this, when I purchase a game, I'm not looking for an advertising medium. I want to play the game and enjoy myself away from all of that.If there is DLC I'm ok with that if it's not some thing that's going to prevent me from enjoying the main game content, it needs to be simply bonus content.

If I am buying a game, I expect to buy a whole and complete game, otherwise if there is going to be adds in the game, or I am going to be missing out on some important feature of the game, then the game itself should be free and beyond that the DLC can be paid for.

Put the DLC notices on the launch screen, let us know it's available. Allow us to purchase the content from there. If you need to let us know where to go to find that content, give us something when we purchase it, or post it on the website. DO NOT put some NPC in the game to tell us that we have to go and buy this to gain access. I don't like seeing adds in games I pay for, nor do I like the interruption to the game play. I love what BioWare produces, but if this becomes a trend I won't be buying their games, or the game of anyone else that does it.

The NPCs wont tell you when you accept the quest it will just  bring you up to a DLC purchase screen

[JackDresden]

I have to agree this is pretty depressing news about what would otherwise be a great game. Do you know before you acdcept the quest that you will be expected to buy and pay for it? That you will be taken out of came to a cash cow milking station.



I don't have a problem with DLC content generally but I do think this is both insulting to the player and immersion breaking. People should be offered DLC & have the choice of buying it or not out of game.



But to ram it down out throats in this way in the middle of the game is just wrong. I'll certainly cut of 5 - 10% from any customer review I do of the game on the basis of my etreme dislike of commercial intrusion in games.

[Eoweth]

If the game itself is going to be used as an advertising medium, why the hell am I paying $70 for it?

[SheffSteel]

Critical Miss has a good point.

Quote from the producer(?): "The questgiver isn't a shill, he's hopefully an engaging character with a problem and an opportunity for the PC."

So how are we supposed to tell a real quest-giver NPC from a paid virtual salesman? The more immersive the dialogue, the more the NPC talks about the quest, the longer I will have to carry on the conversation before I can figure out if this is a quest or an annoying waste of my time. And if I can't tell quickly, this is going to bother me every time I talk to an NPC. And EA expect me to pay for the privilege?

If digital salesmen can be turned off, this isn't a problem. Let the casual player idiots deal with them, and leave alone those of us who want to keep separate the process of installing and buying the game from the process of playing it.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 25 octobre 2009 - 05:44 .

[BoomWav]

I think they have a symbol over their head or something like that. So you can avoid them.

[Zilod]

PriscilaSSR wrote...
On the subject of the in-game NPC-sales guy... While it may seem like a "greedy" move, I think is quite reasonable. A pirate will find himself face to face with the reality of a content the he/she will only get by spending money (And pirates are all about having things easy and quickly)... And a person who doesn't go to the forums/official site will have a opportunity to learn about the DLC while not having to go very far to buy. While the rest of us... Well, I think I will buy any new content the moment it arrives, so the NPC luckily will not offer me something that I already have

thats not much to do with piracy, if someone get the pirate game he will hardly bother about dlc or at worst can look around for pirated dlc too, also you can get the same effect with an advertise on the main menu... as is made for most games, so is not that a guy that got a pirated game will not know about additional content.

and maybe the ads ingame will be not that intrusive or immersion breaking but is a way to sneak in microtransaction for a fully paid game, that imo is a very bad thing to have, and this is not just to whine, but is to "protest" against a way to lucrate over games

want to do a microtransaction/ads full game? fine do it in a free game, but not in a game i pay full price, if i go to a cinema i pay my ticket and pretend to see a movie whitout interruptions or ads, if i watch in on free tv then ok i get adds but i watch it for free.