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[Icinix]

They were artificially created to resemble human women.



To appeal to the needs of certain gamers. I blame Captain Kirk, he started the whole damn thing.

[UnDutchable]

- Echoing the hate for ridiculous outfits some squadmates wear. I don't give a damn what they wear in their private time, but why don't they put on some armor when we're going to fight? The fabric of Miranda's loyalty outfit is so thin that you can see her belly button through it. How the heck is that thing supposed to stop bullets? Oh, and it's great how they put on some tiny face mask when we're walking around in open space or toxic environments. Yeah, that'll help when their entire upper body is still exposed.

- Giving me a Cerberus cheerleader whose only defense for Cerberus is It wasn't us. Really? I mean, really? It was bad enough that we can't call Cerberus out on killing Kahoku, and that Sole Survivors can't say anything about what happened to them, but what Miranda says is just insulting. At least give me some justification for their actions, instead of distancing yourselves from anything that didn't work out as planned.

- Hiding pretty important information in an easy to miss conversation which consists of just a few lines. I'm talking, of course, about how Shepard got resurrected by Cerberus in the first place. It wasn't until my third playthrough that I discovered what Liara had done, because the option that leads to that conversation only appears once and disappears if you take any other option. Hey Bioware, could you please make sure that those of us who don't follow every bit of media surrounding a video game can still follow the story without hunting down some book or comic? Thank you.

- Recruiting characters who have no right to be there. Why is my Paragon Shepard destroying an entire prison ship to recruit this psychopathic murderer? It's because she's a really powerful biotic who hates the organization I'm working fo... oh. Yeah. Good thinking, Cerberus, I'm sure this will work out just fine! Also, I'm recruiting the most skilled people in the galaxy! But I guess Jacob can come, too. I'm not saying this because I hate him, I'm genuinely wondering why he's there. Even his Shadow Broker dossier seems to mock him for it. Oh yeah, that guy? Well, I guess he's a good soldier, but really he's only recruited because he has a nice personality. Laaaaaaaaame. Also, Morinth. Why. Would. I. Do. That?

- Having characters chew me out for things the game made me do. Anderson and the Council are angry at me for working with Cerberus, Kaidan and Ashley are angry at me for working with Cerberus, and pretty much everyone else who ever knew me is angry at me for working with Cerberus. LotSB was the worst, with Vasir chewing me out for working with Cerberus, and all I can say is some BS about how what Cerberus has done doesn't matter (yes it does!)? Most of my complaints are simply because I've played through the game so often that minor annoyances have become major ones, but this is just unacceptable. I know that there will be some railroading since I'm playing the story of Shepard, but I expect a roleplaying game to give me more choices than because the game says so.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
So you would rather hideous 10 eyed monsters with no elbows? You don't believe that it's possible for alien races (Asari) to have developed along similar paths as humans?

Similar lines, yes. Meaning anthropomorphic, two legs, two arms, head with braincase and sensory organs, the principle of things going in at the upper and exiting on the lower end.

But consider how little it takes a human face to go off into the Uncanny Valley. And then consider how the asari face isn't just anthropomorphic, it's human. The eyes, the shape of the mouth and nose, the general human female body shape with the hip and waist all shaped *exactly* as to be sexual attractive to a human male. Sorry, to think that a species on a different star system could look identical to a human, that's preposterous. Even assuming some sort of parallel evolution - which explains the turians, the drell, the batarians and salarians well enough - something like the asari just won't happen. Unless the species was artificially created to resemble humans.

Well, for what it's worth, they do have squid heads....



But you do make a compelling argument. And it was likely implemented so that the player could roleplay as the one of the most famous Sci-Fi heroes on the planet, Kirk. Also take into account that many Sci-Fi movies and shows have species that resemble humans, especially Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nothing to get work up about, and no where near a game breaker.

[UnDutchable]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
So you would rather hideous 10 eyed monsters with no elbows? You don't believe that it's possible for alien races (Asari) to have developed along similar paths as humans?

Similar lines, yes. Meaning anthropomorphic, two legs, two arms, head with braincase and sensory organs, the principle of things going in at the upper and exiting on the lower end.

But consider how little it takes a human face to go off into the Uncanny Valley. And then consider how the asari face isn't just anthropomorphic, it's human. The eyes, the shape of the mouth and nose, the general human female body shape with the hip and waist all shaped *exactly* as to be sexual attractive to a human male. Sorry, to think that a species on a different star system could look identical to a human, that's preposterous. Even assuming some sort of parallel evolution - which explains the turians, the drell, the batarians and salarians well enough - something like the asari just won't happen. Unless the species was artificially created to resemble humans.

Well, for what it's worth, they do have squid heads....



But you do make a compelling argument. And it was likely implemented so that the player could roleplay as the one of the most famous Sci-Fi heroes on the planet, Kirk. Also take into account that many Sci-Fi movies and shows have species that resemble humans, especially Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nothing to get work up about, and no where near a game breaker.

You don't understand how the presence of a race of blue space chicks who sleep with everyone, live ridiculously long lives, who have telepathic powers, and somehow are attractive to every single species in the galaxy can break people's immersion?

It's not that the asari are so human, it's that they are blatant fanservice, and there's not much about them to hide the fact that they're blatant fanservice. Of course people are going to be bothered by that.

[Gibb_Shepard]

UnDutchable wrote...



You don't understand how the presence of a race of blue space chicks who sleep with everyone, live ridiculously long lives, who have telepathic powers, and somehow are attractive to every single species in the galaxy can break people's immersion?

It's not that the asari are so human, it's that they are blatant fanservice, and there's not much about them to hide the fact that they're blatant fanservice. Of course people are going to be bothered by that.

No, i don't. If something as little as that breaks the immersion of the amazing ME universe, then you may aswell stop the series before more of the dreaded asari pop up their heads in ME3. I think the explanation of asari culture and biology was done well, and accept that biology and culture. If you can get over the apparent "fanservice" and immerse yourself in the series, there's no reason you can't aswell.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 10 octobre 2010 - 11:19 .

[philiposophy]

I am always bugged by why the asari are universally attractive. I can understand them being so for humans, since they look so similar, but why would a krogan or a turian find them attractive? This is a gripe that applies to romance with non-humans in general, but is particularly absurd here.

Some of the worst moments for me are the cutscenes that highlight squadmates having ridiculous powers. I get that there's going to be some gameplay and story segregation (like shooting people in cutscenes and not actual gameplay), but seeing Jack destroy those 4 YMIRs and Kasumi jumping onto Hock's gunship is just too much.

[UnDutchable]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

UnDutchable wrote...



You don't understand how the presence of a race of blue space chicks who sleep with everyone, live ridiculously long lives, who have telepathic powers, and somehow are attractive to every single species in the galaxy can break people's immersion?

It's not that the asari are so human, it's that they are blatant fanservice, and there's not much about them to hide the fact that they're blatant fanservice. Of course people are going to be bothered by that.

No, i don't. If something as little as that breaks the immersion of the amazing ME universe, then you may aswell stop the series before more of the dreaded asari pop up their heads in ME3. I think the explanation of asari culture and biology was done well, and accept that biology and culture. If you can get over the apparent "fanservice" and immerse yourself in the series, there's no reason you can't aswell.

I don't understand your last sentence at all. Are you trying to say that since you, Gibb_Shepard, don't mind the asari other people shouldn't mind them either? People are allowed to have different opinions, you know.
Edit: Especially in a thread called "The Really Bad Moments", which you know is going to be entirely subjective.

Modifié par UnDutchable, 10 octobre 2010 - 11:33 .

[Barquiel]

- As already mentioned...Baby Terminator, some outfits, collector abduction

- The death and return of Shepard...and "I got better" is all we can say

- some dilemmas are forced
rachni: kill her or set her free (Kaidan suggested to leave the decision to the Council...but no)
collector base: space terrorists or BOOM!

[JaegerBane]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
No, i don't. If something as little as that breaks the immersion of the amazing ME universe, then you may aswell stop the series before more of the dreaded asari pop up their heads in ME3. I think the explanation of asari culture and biology was done well, and accept that biology and culture. If you can get over the apparent "fanservice" and immerse yourself in the series, there's no reason you can't aswell.

This. Obviously there are some 'fanservice' elements to how the game world plays out, but claiming that you can't play the game because there some blue alien chicks with squid heads and mental powers and you can't take them seriously is effectively saying that you can't handle any sci-fi softer than Arthur C Clarke. In which case one shouldn't really be playing a space opera game.

I mean, look at star trek, for pete's sake. HAlf their aliens look like some dude down the street plus some funny clothes and haircuts.

[JaegerBane]

Barquiel wrote...

- As already mentioned...Baby Terminator,

Yeah, I figured this had already been brought up. It's one of the things that I just didn't get about ME2 criticism - that the idea of a Reaper that looks like half a human skeleton is arbitrarily decided as being 'wrong' or 'silly'.

I mean, there's no good reason for it to be 'wrong' or 'silly', but, uh... apparently, it just is. There's no real reason for the dislike, but it's the fashionable thing to say that it's bad. Presumably it should have looked like a prawn, or a koala bear, perhaps? Or perhaps a bunch of roses?

[Gibb_Shepard]

UnDutchable wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

UnDutchable wrote...



You don't understand how the presence of a race of blue space chicks who sleep with everyone, live ridiculously long lives, who have telepathic powers, and somehow are attractive to every single species in the galaxy can break people's immersion?

It's not that the asari are so human, it's that they are blatant fanservice, and there's not much about them to hide the fact that they're blatant fanservice. Of course people are going to be bothered by that.

No, i don't. If something as little as that breaks the immersion of the amazing ME universe, then you may aswell stop the series before more of the dreaded asari pop up their heads in ME3. I think the explanation of asari culture and biology was done well, and accept that biology and culture. If you can get over the apparent "fanservice" and immerse yourself in the series, there's no reason you can't aswell.

I don't understand your last sentence at all. Are you trying to say that since you, Gibb_Shepard, don't mind the asari other people shouldn't mind them either? People are allowed to have different opinions, you know.
Edit: Especially in a thread called "The Really Bad Moments", which you know is going to be entirely subjective.

In short, it basically means get over it. I'm not saying my opinion is gospel at all, i'm saying that getting your panties in a knot over one species that may have a hint of fan service is completely unnecessary. I mean look at star trek for god sake, all the aliens look like bloody humans.

But it doesn't matter, i'll just go and immerse myself in mass effect and enjoy myself thoroughly, while you stay here and complain about one race that apparently breaks the game.

[Elyvern]

JaegerBane wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

- As already mentioned...Baby Terminator,

Yeah, I figured this had already been brought up. It's one of the things that I just didn't get about ME2 criticism - that the idea of a Reaper that looks like half a human skeleton is arbitrarily decided as being 'wrong' or 'silly'.

I mean, there's no good reason for it to be 'wrong' or 'silly', but, uh... apparently, it just is. There's no real reason for the dislike, but it's the fashionable thing to say that it's bad. Presumably it should have looked like a prawn, or a koala bear, perhaps? Or perhaps a bunch of roses?

Casey Hudson explicitly said that it's something that will be explored further in ME3, so now it boils down to how well they'd be able to explain away the initial "UGH" impression.

I've heard those criticisms, but I've also heard a lot of amazing praise of it. I think it was just the visual design of the final boss that I've heard criticism about, and even that, I think when people play Three, there will be more reasoning behind that.

www.joystiq.com/2010/06/15/interview-bioware-casey-hudson-on-the-making-of-mass-effect-2/

Modifié par Elyvern, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:02 .

[Barquiel]

UnDutchable wrote...

It's not that the asari are so human, it's that they are blatant fanservice, and there's not much about them to hide the fact that they're blatant fanservice. Of course people are going to be bothered by that.

The drell are blatant fanservice
Tali and Garrus romances are blatant fanservice

I assume they bother you as well?

[Anacronian Stryx]

Barquiel wrote...
- some dilemmas are forced
rachni: kill her or set her free (Kaidan suggested to leave the decision to the Council...but no)

Things like this aren't really thought though by Bioware, It would have been so easy to have had Benezia set of a timer that would release the acid if Shepard didn't stop it.

Then there would be no time to contact the council - Shep had to make the decision right there and now, Save the Rachni Queen(by hacking the timer) or not.

[JaegerBane]

Elyvern wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

- As already mentioned...Baby Terminator,

Yeah, I figured this had already been brought up. It's one of the things that I just didn't get about ME2 criticism - that the idea of a Reaper that looks like half a human skeleton is arbitrarily decided as being 'wrong' or 'silly'.

I mean, there's no good reason for it to be 'wrong' or 'silly', but, uh... apparently, it just is. There's no real reason for the dislike, but it's the fashionable thing to say that it's bad. Presumably it should have looked like a prawn, or a koala bear, perhaps? Or perhaps a bunch of roses?

Casey Hudson explicitly said that it's something that will be explored further in ME3, so now it boils down to how well they'd be able to explain away the initial "UGH" impression.

I've heard those criticisms, but I've also heard a lot of amazing praise of it. I think it was just the visual design of the final boss that I've heard criticism about, and even that, I think when people play Three, there will be more reasoning behind that.

www.joystiq.com/2010/06/15/interview-bioware-casey-hudson-on-the-making-of-mass-effect-2/

That's why I was confused. You had a legion of people saying 'why does a Reaper look like a human skeleton? That's stupid!' without knowing what the Reapers specifically are or why they were doing what they're doing. Surely for it to be decreed as 'stupid' you'd need full info on the Reapers so that you'd know it was in conflict with how they reproduce and what they're trying to do.

But we don't have that info. So by what logic has it been decided that it's such a bad idea? Just because people don't like human skeletons? What's next? Is it going to be derided because it wasn't pink? Or that it didn't have enough one liners?

[Anacronian Stryx]

JaegerBane wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

- As already mentioned...Baby Terminator,

Yeah, I figured this had already been brought up. It's one of the things that I just didn't get about ME2 criticism - that the idea of a Reaper that looks like half a human skeleton is arbitrarily decided as being 'wrong' or 'silly'.

I mean, there's no good reason for it to be 'wrong' or 'silly', but, uh... apparently, it just is. There's no real reason for the dislike, but it's the fashionable thing to say that it's bad. Presumably it should have looked like a prawn, or a koala bear, perhaps? Or perhaps a bunch of roses?

Casey Hudson explicitly said that it's something that will be explored further in ME3, so now it boils down to how well they'd be able to explain away the initial "UGH" impression.

I've heard those criticisms, but I've also heard a lot of amazing praise of it. I think it was just the visual design of the final boss that I've heard criticism about, and even that, I think when people play Three, there will be more reasoning behind that.

www.joystiq.com/2010/06/15/interview-bioware-casey-hudson-on-the-making-of-mass-effect-2/

That's why I was confused. You had a legion of people saying 'why does a Reaper look like a human skeleton? That's stupid!' without knowing what the Reapers specifically are or why they were doing what they're doing. Surely for it to be decreed as 'stupid' you'd need full info on the Reapers so that you'd know it was in conflict with how they reproduce and what they're trying to do.

But we don't have that info. So by what logic has it been decided that it's such a bad idea? Just because people don't like human skeletons? What's next? Is it going to be derided because it wasn't pink? Or that it didn't have enough one liners?

I think that if there were no Terminator movies people would react very differently to the Reaper Larvae, But now many have the experience of running into a chamber and seeing something they have seen before.. that disappoints many.

I think Bioware had been better of if they had gone with the other concept of the Reaper Larvae.

Here.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:17 .

[Mallissin]

Shandepared wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I like the attractive (human) females in the game. I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to accept *alien* individuals looking like attractive women.

I just hate when sexy women wear ****ty outfits into battle. No high heels. No cleavage. Thank you.

I agree with Flashlight for a head.

I'm pretty sure women won't get that shallow in 100 years. Unless, of course the Italians take over the international space program (it is possible, they made a module on the ISS).

[Anacronian Stryx]

Shandepared wrote...

To be honest the Reaper skeleton never bothered me that much. I figured it would ride inside some kind of chassis that would look more similar to the other Reapers.

Yeah something like the Space Jockey from Alien.

[JaegerBane]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...
I think that if there were no Terminator movies people would react very differently to the Reaper Larvae, But now many have the experience of running into a chamber and seeing something they have seen before.. that disappoints many.

I think Bioware had been better of if they had gone with the other concept of the Reaper Larvae.

Here.

I'd have a hard time believing that if the Reaper looked like a giant baby then they'd have been less complaints. Since so few of the anti-'Arnie' ones were based on sense and reason and more a knee-jerk response that wasn't thought through.

I can kind of understand the whole 'oh but we've seen this before' but, in reality, all they've seen is a metal skeleton before. It's a very generic concept to cry 'copy' over - it's like saying that Gandalf has been seen before in the LotR films because he's an old wizard with a beard and a hat. Frankly I was more reminded by the Decepticons from the Transformers Movie, particularly given it's sound effects and it's size, but that just goes to show that it isn't really a specific concept that people claim has been ripped from some other media.

[UnDutchable]

Some of you are really, really defensive for no apparent reason. When people talk about things that are immersion-breaking for them, they're not saying they can't enjoy the game anymore; it's just a moment of "What the Christ?" that pulls them out of the story.

And yes, Tali and Garrus's romances did bother me, because there's not much else to them. If you don't romance them, you get like two conversations with them and then they're eternally calibrating/whatever. Thane was supposed to be fanservice, not the entire drell species, and I didn't want to romance him at first for exactly that reason. But I like talking to him even on a ManShep playthrough or when I'm not romancing him, so he doesn't bother me.

Why is it such a taboo to say something negative about this game? Every time anyone has even the slightest criticism of ME2, they're then immediately told they should stop playing the game if they hate it so much, and whatever other strawmen arguments people can think of.

[adam_grif]

The only squadmates that even mildly resemble your description are Miranda and Samara. TWO squadmates.

I think you're forgetting about Subject Zero and her amazing bulletproof Tattoos, Jacob's male version of Miranda's skintight outfit, and Morinth for when she takes Samara's place. And every other character who doesn't wear proper armor into battle or hazardous environment suits, for instance nearly all of them.

when she dresses casually there is NOTHING wrong with her outfit.

Who was complaining about their casual wear?

Miranda on the other hand, does dress a bit inappropriately. But one out of 12 aint bad. Sure is far off your massive exaggeration of half the crew.

Way to miss the point. I'm complaining about not wearing armor, not whatever they decide to dress themselves in their free time (although I do find that somewhat tasteless also but it isn't shattering my SoD).

So you would rather hideous 10 eyed monsters with no elbows? You don't believe that it's possible for alien races (Asari) to have developed along similar paths as humans?

Asari don't just "look like humans", they ARE humans, with tentacles instead of hair and blue skin. Turians, Quarians and Drell are proof that you don't have to make aliens look like something you'd expect to see from a low-budget SciFi series in order to make them attractive or romantically appealing to people.

But it's not just that. Looking exactly like humans is only the start of their outrageous wankery. They're also telepathic, some of them have MIND CONTROL POWERS (Morinth et al.), every single one of their species is a biotic, they are entirely bisexual, and they not only all look like humans, they all look like the exact picture of what current, western humans find attractive in terms of bodyform. Why aren't there any flat-chested AsarI? Why aren't there any Asari with ugly faces? Even humans, who are genetically designed to be attracted to other humans, find most other humans unattractive. So why is there an ENTIRE SPECIES of beatiful, perfect women? Oh, and they live for A THOUSAND YEARS.

They read like some 14 year old's power fantasy wet dream.

Modifié par adam_grif, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:31 .

[Flamewielder]

-Drinking and kissing LI through helmets (I always end up wearing visors for this reason)
-Breath masks and exposed skin in vaccuum or corrosive atmosphere
-Fighting in heels, Boobs in space; Armor is useless; Spandex is a Privilege, not a Right... Bring back believeable armor please!
-No Turian/Krogan/Volus/Elcor Females in bars... don't their girls like to get out too?
-Shepard resurrection. A critically wounded Shepard rescued and put in stasis for 2 years for reconstruction, I can buy. Restoring complete brain functionality, memories and personality from a freeze dried, explosively decompressed corpse, that's straining it.
-The whole team leaving the ship on the shuttle should have been better justified. Now it feels like the obvious ploy it is.

Essentially, ME2 broke off with many of the sleek sci-fi elements that gave ME1 that "believable" feel: armor/vacc suits that looked the part, people removing their helmets to talk/hug/kiss eachother, poor retconning of elements that had been remarkably consistent and believable throughout ME1.

This being said, I still enjoy the game, but see obvious ways it could have been made better and more coherent with its predecessor.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:52 .