221 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

UnDutchable wrote...
Why is it such a taboo to say something negative about this game? Every time anyone has even the slightest criticism of ME2, they're then immediately told they should stop playing the game if they hate it so much, and whatever other strawmen arguments people can think of.

It's not so much a question of it being taboo, it's a question of people mentioning that they're entire suspension of disbelief has been smashed etc and when they explain why, it turns out the reasons are stupid things like 'the aliens look like women!' or 'the end boss looks like the Terminator!' or something along those lines.

Often such reasoning boils down to the individual apparently looking for things to complain about. They've decided that this alien looks like a woman (despite the fact that they're bright blue, thousands of years old with no ears and tentacles on their heads - never mind all that, the fact that the species happens to have a similar facial structure means that it's daft) or this boss looks like the terminator (presumably the facts that it only actually looks vaguely like a metal skeleton upper half and that it's behaviour, size and reason for existence are completely different are overlooked) - in which case it's just a situation of the player just deciding he doesn't like it 'just because'.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of quite reasonable things to complain about in ME2, such as Jack and her bullet-proof nipple-strips, the enormous disparity between cut scenes and gameplay, the weird anachronisms generated by the major changes of gameplay, Shepard's bizarre interactions (such as drinking through his faceplate or getting recognised while wearing a full facemask) etc etc etc, and there are good reasons for all these. There's certainly no reason to gloss over criticism in every case, when the criticiser is actually making a valid point.

What people often don't have patience for is when people start claiming they've had the game ruined for them because they didn't like the look of a certain enemy or whatever. If people are so sensitive that a dislike of a certain shape in the game renders the whole thing a waste, then they weren't really suited to be playing the game in the first place.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:47 .

[Count Viceroy]

Me 2 has quite a few obvious ones, but damn some people are anal about everything, up to the point of it being ridiculous. It's equally unsuprising that its the same group of posters who keep repeating the same arguments and feel sorry for themselves cause their oh so fragile immersion being ruined. Guess what, you're looking too hard.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 10 octobre 2010 - 12:47 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

adam_grif wrote...

Asari don't just "look like humans", they ARE humans, with tentacles instead of hair and blue skin. Turians, Quarians and Drell are proof that you don't have to make aliens look like something you'd expect to see from a low-budget SciFi series in order to make them attractive or romantically appealing to people.

But it's not just that. Looking exactly like humans is only the start of their outrageous wankery. They're also telepathic, some of them have MIND CONTROL POWERS (Morinth et al.), every single one of their species is a biotic, they are entirely bisexual, and they not only all look like humans, they all look like the exact picture of what current, western humans find attractive in terms of bodyform. Why aren't there any flat-chested AsarI? Why aren't there any Asari with ugly faces? Even humans, who are genetically designed to be attracted to other humans, find most other humans unattractive. So why is there an ENTIRE SPECIES of beatiful, perfect women? Oh, and they live for A THOUSAND YEARS.

They read like some 14 year old's power fantasy wet dream.

Oh for god sake. Whatever man, i'm not going to argue with you, you obviously have a huge problem with this minor aspect of the games. Continue with your asari rage, i won't stop you.

[CrimsonSpinach]

I realise that everything that could be said has been said, but the only qualms I have with ME2 is the whole casual battledress issue. But I think they only did that because of the whining about 'OMG my inventory is full WTF'.

[Christmas Ape]

- Being unable to flash my Spectre badge at Kelham less than an hour after reinstatement because I'm too nice a person sometimes, so instead I have to beat him bloody about the face and head with my armor-grade ceramic gauntlets.

- Half the time I'm bothered by thermal clips on Jacob's loyalty mission. Depends on how I'm describing them in my head. The closer to apparent canon I go the less it bothers me.

- Having to put my helmet on lockdown if I want to wear it. Damn turians and their high-tech removable helmets.

- Speaking of turians, "Um, Garrus? You seem to, uh...have a bit of a scratch on your armor there...where the helmet attaches to create an environmental seal. No big deal? Alright buddy, I trust you. Let's roll."

- That GARDIAN laser blasts have a solid body terminating in an explosive warhead and are propelled with an apparent chemical fuel rocket engine.

- Piling a my entire task force into the shuttle to go see a geth base. There's not gonna be a goddamn gift shop, get back to your appropriated rooms on my multi-billion-credit warship. If Kelly says you were good, we'll stop for ice cream on Omega on our way.



Everything else can be nudged to make sufficient sense if you start from the premise "Mass Effect 2 is a functional universe" rather than "Mass Effect 2 isn't as good as Mass Effect", or is purely individual/wrong.

Body horror is a matter of personal taste, and anyone who finds the Fat Man more believable than the Cain doesn't understand enough nuclear physics to discuss the matter.

[Skyblade012]

JaegerBane wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...
I think that if there were no Terminator movies people would react very differently to the Reaper Larvae, But now many have the experience of running into a chamber and seeing something they have seen before.. that disappoints many.

I think Bioware had been better of if they had gone with the other concept of the Reaper Larvae.

Here.

I'd have a hard time believing that if the Reaper looked like a giant baby then they'd have been less complaints. Since so few of the anti-'Arnie' ones were based on sense and reason and more a knee-jerk response that wasn't thought through.

I can kind of understand the whole 'oh but we've seen this before' but, in reality, all they've seen is a metal skeleton before. It's a very generic concept to cry 'copy' over - it's like saying that Gandalf has been seen before in the LotR films because he's an old wizard with a beard and a hat. Frankly I was more reminded by the Decepticons from the Transformers Movie, particularly given it's sound effects and it's size, but that just goes to show that it isn't really a specific concept that people claim has been ripped from some other media.

Gandalf has been seen before in other films.  Since, y'know, LotR basically started every trend known in epic fantasy.  We've seen hundreds of renditions of him.  I'm just glad we finally got to see the original done so well in film.

The connection of the metal skeleton to the Terminator is one that is obvious to basically anyone who has seen the Terminator movies.  Yes, a metal skeleton is a pretty generic idea, but the association is obvious, which is why it's been made by just about every fan out there.  BioWare should have caught it and tried to address it.

I actually would have liked the other Reaper, but I don't see how it would have translated well to a boss fight.  I definitely would not have wanted another of the "destroy the eezo core while endless mooks spawn around you" battles, I hated that one.  And that embryo form looked pretty immobile, and I doubt it was developed enough to have weapons.

[Christmas Ape]

So there can never, ever, in all fiction be a metallic human skeleton because Terminator was a really popular 80s movie. Get a f--king grip, your nostalgia does not dictate popular media. It is as much a Terminator as John Shepard is an underwear model, which is to say not at all. He's an N7 Alliance Marine turned Spectre, and the Human-Reaper is a metalized carbon* mechanical entity which resembles the upper half of a human skeleton.



*Pure speculation, but it's the only thing that really stands up to reason.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

mosor wrote...

iakus wrote...


Cerberus, the super-secret, quasi-terrorist organization, whom it is a capital offense to even be a member, puts its logo on everything, including the side of the Normandy

Are you sure it's a Cerberus logo and not the logo of one of their front companies? Jack may have recognized it, but she's been researching Cerberus for years.

Yeah, I think it's sort of established somewhere that it's meant to be Cord-Hislop, Inc. logo. It's a Cerberus front spacecraft manufacturing company Paul Grayson was working for. The Normandy SR-2 may be registered as property of that company.

Be nice if that was mentioned in the game...

[Killjoy Cutter]

smudboy wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

(See my sig for an explanation of the parathetical in my thread title.)

Do you have a moment in ME that just knocks you completely out of your suspension of disbelief?  If so, what is it?   Even if it's just for a second...


The one that always gets me is when Mordin starts talking about humans being genetically diverse compared to other species.  If that's the case, then other intelligent species from around the galaxy must be nearly inbred. 

If you look at human genetic history, there are are one or more severe population bottlenecks that stripped our species of a great deal of genetic diversity.  Even though we outnumber most of the other ape species thousands or millions to one, they're almost all more genetically varied that we are. 


(For reference, I don't think that anything to do with the "mass effect" conceit of the setting can count, unless you're talking about something in how it's presented that's internally inconsistent.)

The genetics talk?  The bit of science about genetics of other races?  How about the first 10 minutes?  And every main plot non-sidequest point?

So you play the game... why?  We've never seen you do anything but rag on the game in this forum, and in your little videothings, constantly.  At least, I haven't seen anything else out of you. 

[Anacronian Stryx]

Skyblade012 wrote...

I actually would have liked the other Reaper, but I don't see how it would have translated well to a boss fight.  I definitely would not have wanted another of the "destroy the eezo core while endless mooks spawn around you" battles, I hated that one.  And that embryo form looked pretty immobile, and I doubt it was developed enough to have weapons.

I don't know - is it so important to fight the Reaper Larvae it self? - i mean while we did fight Sovereign in ME1 it was in his proxy form of Saren.

I would have been quite happy to just square it off some non-reaper boss, Also it would have made the whole "saving the base for Cerberus" just a tad more creepy if you knew that included a unharmed proto-reaper.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Saibh wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

I take personal offense at the "there are no blondes in the future" bull****. There have been blondes for at least 30,000 years before now, but in a hundred years they're all gone? Someone needs to revisit high school level biology and mathematics.

Strawberry blonde will be around a very long time, if I have anything to do about it.

Ah, yes, that one! Damn, do I hate that one. It is one of the most persistent myths out there. There have been dozens and dozens of studies to prove this one wrong, but it sticks.

Back to the genetics...

[Christmas Ape]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Be nice if that was mentioned in the game...

It appears in some of the supplementary media, I understand. In much the same way someone who hadn't played Mass Effect would have only the barest idea of who Ashley/Kaiden are - "Apparently one of Shepard's crew on the SR-1 - the XO, I guess?" - and thus not care about Horizon, those who haven't read the comics miss some details, I guess. Mass Effect 2 is a multi-media experience. Not saying that's better for those who don't try to get all the information, but it's not unique.

[AntiChri5]

UnDutchable wrote...
- Recruiting characters who have no right to be there. Why is my Paragon Shepard destroying an entire prison ship to recruit this psychopathic murderer? It's because she's a really powerful biotic who hates the organization I'm working fo... oh. Yeah. Good thinking, Cerberus, I'm sure this will work out just fine!

You aren't destroying the ship. The slavers who run it broke the deal and tried to kill you. You decided to recruit Jack and go home, you had to end the security lockdown as it was the only way to escape and get Jack out of cryo. Unfortunately for those poor little slavers, ending the lockdown opens all the cells on that block. The prisoners destroyed the ship.

[Killjoy Cutter]

adam_grif wrote...

All team on shuttle

The worst part of this wasn't that the whole team was on the shuttle, but rather that his plan was to send the whole team on the shuttle... and then send all but 2 of them back once he got there. It's just pointing a big flashing sign at the fact that you can only take two squadmates with you at a time, just because the game says so.

Collector cruiser coming out of the middle of nowhere

It being called a "cruiser" at all when it is obviously dreadnought/carrier sized.

Crew abductuion

How about the magical reaper virus that transmitted the system positions to the collectors... somehow? And also apparently knew that it was HUMANS because otherwise the collector ship would have just blown them the frack up, or completely ignored them.

I also like how the collectors don't bother to strip the IFF out of the ship while they're there. Lol.

Boobs in space

High heels

Yeeees. So bad.

Adding to the list:

- Everything about the Asari.
- Rampant idiocy of Shepard's crew; not having any sort of long term plan to wipe out the collectors even when they thought that it was a whole civilization of people, not just one space station.
- Thermal clips and modern mechs showing up on Jacob's loyalty mission. WHOOPS.
- "We're firing a high powered GARDIAN laser" *cuts to shot of obviously not a laser firing at the ship*

Let's see: 

The shuttle was an odd workaround moment, but not one I couldn't set aside at the time.  (Could just as easily have had the team aboard and have them all fight their way to engineering as Collectors are swarming all over the ship, saving some of the crew along the way...)

The Collectors probably weren't planning to just leave the Normandy there adrift in space with the IFF still installed, but rather to take or destroy it.  Joker and EDI did throw a wrench in the Collectors' works on that part, I'd say.

As for transmitting the location of the Normandy, well, an IFF has to be able to transmit, and EDI and Joker are arguing about whether or not there's a signal hidden in the static that the IFF generates when it's first activated and they're trying to tune it.  All it has to be able to do is get a signal to the nearest comm buoy.  From the moment the IFF was hooked up to the Normandy's comm system and turned on, the risk was there.

Coming out of nowhere?  A ship in FTL is effectively invisible to those in front of it, it's outrunning all evidence of its existance.  If the Collector ship drops out of FTL near the Normandy, it would appear to "come out of nowhere".

Knowing it's a human ship?  They've been trying to get or get to Shep, and the ship does say "NORMANDY" in giant letters on the side...



As for the convergent phenotypes of the various species, well, the general bipedal form has a lot of advantages in the development of intelligence, so I can overlook that to some degree.  Sure, the Asari could have been a little more alien in the small details, but really, it's a science fiction video game.  What gets me is when the females of every species we've seen have breasts just as humans do... at least when they have females that we've actually seen.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Be nice if that was mentioned in the game...

It appears in some of the supplementary media, I understand. In much the same way someone who hadn't played Mass Effect would have only the barest idea of who Ashley/Kaiden are - "Apparently one of Shepard's crew on the SR-1 - the XO, I guess?" - and thus not care about Horizon, those who haven't read the comics miss some details, I guess. Mass Effect 2 is a multi-media experience. Not saying that's better for those who don't try to get all the information, but it's not unique.

"Multimedia experience." 

Bleargh. 

If it's a detail that matters, put it in the book/game/movie.  The idea that visiting the website or buying the comic is necessary to go understand what's going on or to fully make sense of something in the story is just a poor excuse for ******-poor storytelling.

[AntiChri5]

At least turian girls don't have those "funny front bumps"

[Count Viceroy]

Such a shame that convo got cut...

[Killjoy Cutter]

Shandepared wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Why do so many people dislike attractive females in Mass Effect?

Not everyone is as shallow as you are.

Knock it off, already.

[Count Viceroy]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Knock it off, already.

Don't bother, its just how he rolls, don't you dare question his opinion.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 10 octobre 2010 - 02:25 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Maybe I should have been more specific when I started this thread. I didn't want to rehash general gripes and complaints. I was looking for specific instances with detailed explanations as to why they broke your suspension of disbelief.

[Christmas Ape]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
"Multimedia experience." 

Bleargh. 

Nobody promised you'd love it. But it is what's going on.

If it's a detail that matters, put it in the book/game/movie.

See, I've been saying the Virmire Survivor is an interchangeable set piece but everybody gets all up in arms.

The idea that visiting the website or buying the comic is necessary to go understand what's going on or to fully make sense of something in the story is just a poor excuse for ******-poor storytelling.

Or is an effort to avoid the Inception issue of not having enough time left for dialog that ISN'T exposition.

You don't have to like a technique. That doesn't invalidate it. Make some lemonade.

[Frybread76]

UnDutchable wrote...

Some of you are really, really defensive for no apparent reason. When people talk about things that are immersion-breaking for them, they're not saying they can't enjoy the game anymore; it's just a moment of "What the Christ?" that pulls them out of the story.
And yes, Tali and Garrus's romances did bother me, because there's not much else to them. If you don't romance them, you get like two conversations with them and then they're eternally calibrating/whatever. Thane was supposed to be fanservice, not the entire drell species, and I didn't want to romance him at first for exactly that reason. But I like talking to him even on a ManShep playthrough or when I'm not romancing him, so he doesn't bother me.
Why is it such a taboo to say something negative about this game? Every time anyone has even the slightest criticism of ME2, they're then immediately told they should stop playing the game if they hate it so much, and whatever other strawmen arguments people can think of.

They are fanboys/fangirls who feel it is their duty to argue with anyone who says anything critical about a Bioware game, even if the thread is specifically set up for such, and even if many of us enjoyed ME2 despite the inconsistencies, inaccuracies, retcons and ridiculousness of some parts of the game.

[Frybread76]

JaegerBane wrote...

UnDutchable wrote...
Why is it such a taboo to say something negative about this game? Every time anyone has even the slightest criticism of ME2, they're then immediately told they should stop playing the game if they hate it so much, and whatever other strawmen arguments people can think of.

It's not so much a question of it being taboo, it's a question of people mentioning that they're entire suspension of disbelief has been smashed etc and when they explain why, it turns out the reasons are stupid things like 'the aliens look like women!' or 'the end boss looks like the Terminator!' or something along those lines.

Often such reasoning boils down to the individual apparently looking for things to complain about. They've decided that this alien looks like a woman (despite the fact that they're bright blue, thousands of years old with no ears and tentacles on their heads - never mind all that, the fact that the species happens to have a similar facial structure means that it's daft) or this boss looks like the terminator (presumably the facts that it only actually looks vaguely like a metal skeleton upper half and that it's behaviour, size and reason for existence are completely different are overlooked) - in which case it's just a situation of the player just deciding he doesn't like it 'just because'.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of quite reasonable things to complain about in ME2, such as Jack and her bullet-proof nipple-strips, the enormous disparity between cut scenes and gameplay, the weird anachronisms generated by the major changes of gameplay, Shepard's bizarre interactions (such as drinking through his faceplate or getting recognised while wearing a full facemask) etc etc etc, and there are good reasons for all these. There's certainly no reason to gloss over criticism in every case, when the criticiser is actually making a valid point.

What people often don't have patience for is when people start claiming they've had the game ruined for them because they didn't like the look of a certain enemy or whatever. If people are so sensitive that a dislike of a certain shape in the game renders the whole thing a waste, then they weren't really suited to be playing the game in the first place.

I'm glad you are here to tell us why we dislike certain elements of ME2, and that those reasons are "dumb."  How arrogant can someone be?

[Flamesz]

Virmire Survivors reaction really pisses me off at how stupid they are being, i really just want to slap them.

[Elyvern]

The point of this thread is REALLY BAD moments....but as usual, some people just take it as ALL BAD moments, and end up mentioning the kitchen sink, the flower pots and all....