221 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

brfritos wrote...

Godeskian wrote...

I'm curious where the line is to be drawn between 'bad', 'really bad' and 'wallbanger'. Because I know where that line is for me, but there seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on where that line is for other people.

WoW...

It's was Bioware who created a lore and detailed this lore to death in the first game.
Now they simply are telling "forget the first game", excepting the fact that this is a sequel from it, and is all OK? 

Also Shepard is so dumb, but so dumb that a frigging VI explained to him/her what a Thorian was, how it works and still he/she needs a cientist to explain everything again.
In a resumed form, of course.

Then after being resurrected by Cerberus, wich is uterlly incompetent because the commander still has the same Forrest Gump low IQ, and a Artificial Inteligence - it's a upgrade, remember - explains to the commander that the Collectors are not Protheans anymore, the pokehead still don't understand it, because ask this question three more times in the game!
Even with a brilliant-genious-ultra-mind in the Normandy teeling him/her the same thing.

And you wonder why people are "upset"?  

I think that's a matter of repeating to the PLAYER in case they didn't go through all the conversation options at another point in the games, or didn't catch it.   There are other examples of where the same information is repeated to death because the designers are trying to keep the player in the loop, but someone who investigates everything ends up feeling a little beat over the head with the info by the time it's all said and done.

[Killjoy Cutter]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...
Whatever.  You're making a personal assumption -- without any proof -- by saying that Mordin "dumbed down" what he was saying for the benefit of Shepard.  I ASSUME It's because the writers don't know the difference, and couldn't have been bothered to look it up on the Internet, which can be done in less than a minute.

I guess I should add to this to my list of "REALLY BAD MOMENTS."

The spirit of his information is accurate - or is phenotype no longer considered an element of genetics as a science? - and he doesn't stop the flow of the mission to bring Shepard (who may, depending on origin, almost completely lack formal education) up to speed on the science involved. Which is good, because anyone playing Mass Effect games to learn science needs a smack upside the head.

You can assume the internal logic of the characters helps the game hang together in places, or you can sit on the internet griping at the writers for not upholding your prefered level of scientific discourse in a video game. I know which one of us is still enjoying themselves in Mordin's loyalty mission.

Now you're stretching for the sake of your argument.

Phenotypes are the expression (physical and biochemical characteristics) of an organism and are shaped by genes and environment.  They are not genes, no matter how you try to twist the definition.  Humans have a wide range of hair color, skin color, height, weight, eye color, blood types, etc., but are virtually genetically identical to each other to within 99.9%.

Heck, we look and act almost nothing like chimps, yet we share 98% of our genetic makeup with them.

For humans to be genetically more diverse than other aliens would mean the other races are heavily, heavily inbred, which I guess is possible.

You do realize that characteristics such as skin-tone, hair color, eye color, your height, even things like your intelligence and disposition towards certain behaviors, are ALL influenced by genetics?  Mordin's statement is extremely clear, if you would not quote-mine.

Remember, he states that, with the other species, if you were to select members, there are certain traits you'll always expect to find, physical or psychological.  Like the fact ALL Asari have biotics.  No Asari is ever born without biotics.  Salarians are very intelligent and physically frail.  Krogan are always horribly durable with all members sharing celluar regeneration.

Humans are never quite so consistent.  We come in a variety of shapes, sizes, dispositions, qualities, and traits.  It's impossible to find just an "average" human.  Other species do have outliers, he concedes, but that for humans, diversity of traits is pretty much our claim to fame.  And that does make us genetically diverse.  There's nothing incorrect in his statement.

What Mordin actually says about human genetics is incorrect, and facepalmingly so. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Exonerating Tali without Rael'Zorah's recording.

Please explain how this breaks your suspension of disbelief.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Frybread76 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

You know, if we could avoid words like "fanboy" and whatnot, this would be a much more pleasant discussion.

OK, how about:  It's not my fault some people try and defend an absurb statement made in a game simply because they are an uncompromising ME2 fanatic who will argue with anyone simply because they get offended that others might have some problems believing all of what's said in ME2 or all that has changed since ME1, but whatever.

Actually, directing arguements against statements instead of the perceived faults of those making them might be better.

[Aedan_Cousland]

The Human Reaper

Besides being a corny and underwhelming boss fight, the fact that it looked like a giant human skeleton made it incredibly difficult to suspend disbelief. Why would the Reapers create a ship that looks like a human? Would it fly through space like superman?

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 11 octobre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Big I]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The Human Reaper

Besides being a corny and underwhelming boss fight, the fact that it looked like a giant human skeleton made it incredibly difficult to suspend disbelief. Why would the Reapers create a ship that looks like a human? Would it fly through space like superman?

You will believe a machine made of people can fly.

My worst parts:

"Ah yes, Reapers."

"Shepard, good to see you, hack these terminals."

Conversation with the Virmire survivor.

No suits in vacuum or a poison atmosphere.

Mechs and heatsinks on Jacob's loyalty mission.

Nobody has an opinion on what you do with Maelon's work, not even Grunt or Garrus.

EDI's exposition at the boss fight:
EDI: "According to these readings, it's a Reaper. (Expositon follows about reapers being made from people)."
Shepard: "What readings? The ones from our crashed ship on the other side of the base? And why are you making wild leaps of logic, saying all Reapers are made from organics and are made to look like their race of origin? How do you know that? For all we know this could be some wierd mutant they're making because we killed Sovereign."
EDI:"..."

[Christmas Ape]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
You know, if we could avoid words like "fanboy" and whatnot, this would be a much more pleasant discussion.

OK, how about:  It's not my fault some people try and defend an absurb statement made in a game simply because they are an uncompromising ME2 fanatic who will argue with anyone simply because they get offended that others might have some problems believing all of what's said in ME2 or all that has changed since ME1, but whatever.

Actually, directing arguements against statements instead of the perceived faults of those making them might be better.

Oh, no need to rush to my defense. I get it, phenotypes are in no way related to genetics, and it's going to take some backhanded insults to make sure I understand that. Let the man live how he's gotta live.

EDI's exposition at the boss fight:
EDI: "According to these readings, it's a Reaper. (Expositon follows about reapers being made from people)."
Shepard:
"What readings? The ones from our crashed ship on the other side of the
base? And why are you making wild leaps of logic, saying all Reapers
are made from organics and are made to look like their race of origin?
How do you know that? For all we know this could be some wierd mutant
they're making because we killed Sovereign."
EDI: "Unshackled AI, Shepard; apparently I'm prone to speculation as well as humor. Quantum fluctuations and all that. Don't like it? Buy a new blue box after you prove me wrong."

And fix.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 11 octobre 2010 - 04:35 .

[beyondsolo]

Squad mates going to battle without any sort of armor.

Guard saluting with left hand (yes, he was spaced afterward).

[Aedan_Cousland]

beyondsolo wrote....

Guard saluting with left hand (yes, he was spaced afterward).

Hah!

I never noticed that, and I served in the military. Where does this happen? And why doesn't Shepard have a 'ream out sh:tbird' dialogue option?

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 11 octobre 2010 - 06:27 .

[Christmas Ape]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

beyondsolo wrote....
Guard saluting with left hand (yes, he was spaced afterward).

Hah!
I never noticed that, and I served in the military. Where does this happen? And why doesn't Shepard have a 'ream out sh:tbird' dialogue option?

The AI core with a deactivated Legion, and because the SR-2 is a civilian vessel.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The Human Reaper

Besides being a corny and underwhelming boss fight, the fact that it looked like a giant human skeleton made it incredibly difficult to suspend disbelief. Why would the Reapers create a ship that looks like a human? Would it fly through space like superman?

I get the impression that they're making the core of a new reaper.

Hopefully, this and the Reaper near-religious dedication to whatever their objective is, will be covered in far more detail in ME3.

[Iakus]

Sajuro wrote...

My point is that i just don't see the point in all of the crying about how something resembles the terminator or why they all got on the ship. Sometimes we just have to swallow that fact that it is needed by the plot and come up with our own justifications if we want (Hell, I replaced the story of X-blades with my made up story which I liked better). Mass Effect 2 if a perfectly fun game, it provides a nice and smooth game to those who are willing to go along with it and accept the fact that this is not our universe and instead is a game universe so the laws of biology or physics work however Bioware wants them to in the ME universe.

And some people have different breaking points, a point beyond which they are no longer willing go along, but roll their eyes and go "Oh come ON!"  Thus the thread (I presume) 

In a role-playing game, I demand a certain degree of internal consistency.  While medical treatments and gene therapies have clearly advanced in the Mass Effect universe, there was no clue that anything like a "ressurection machine" had even been considered.  Given such a device has been used, and everyone including the recipient, are completely casual about it leaves my belief "hanging by the neck until dead"

I feel that Mass Effect 2 did have a more character driven story that was more complicated than Superman (Super Dickery notwithstanding) and definitaly doesn't go into death is cheap territory (Suicide Mission, the fact that bringing Shepard back was not only enormous amount of credits but probably also a lot of luck) and I am glad that the game of Mass Effect 2 and 3 weren't some kind of flashback which goes back to the beginning on the game

And here is where I go "Oh come ON!" (the first of many times in the game)  Because actually, Superman's ressurection was actually explained (in a typical comic-booky manner of course) as a series of individual events which could not all be replicated.  Whereas Shepard gets a handwave and a "It was really expensive" .  Other than the price tag , we know nothing of what was involved.  Or what any consequences there may be.  Well, besides Shepard looking like a cybernetic Sith Lord if he/she chooses too many Red Answers. But even then, who notices?

Oh, by the way, I liked the explanation for the Thermal Clips. Why? Because I read it over and thought "Oh, that's cool"

I admit, I rolled my eyes at thermal clips, but did not react further.

[Iakus]

Pocketgb wrote...

iakus wrote...
Ah, but being an rpg (kinda) it's more than a game, it's an interactive story.  And if the "rules" of the story can't stay consistent (cause it's "only a game"), by bother with a story at all?

Not everyone emphasizes the same. Same reason why some hate/love ME2 as opposed to ME1.

I've not been a feen of Bioware's gameplay mechanics for a long while, and I truly could've enjoyed DA:O a whole lot more if it got rid of combat altogether - but there are people out there who *do* appreciate what they create.

This is true.  Not everyone places the same emphasis on the same things.  I'm just explaining my emphasis.

I myself don't get too worked up about gameplay, for or against.  I have preferences, of course, but as long as the mechanics stay consistent, I can get by nine out of ten times.

But for rpgs, I insist on a good story.  A consistent story.  I want to be able to look at the events and say "I can see how that works"  Mass Effect 1 generally did that.  No, not everyhting was explained, but it ended with the promise that it would be in subsequent stories.  This is why my suspension is totally decapitated when:

Soldiers wearing armor (that seals in toxic enviroments) get replaced by spandex-wearing superheroes

Modern medicine and gene therapies that extends the human lifespan to around 150 has now been replaced by the Cure for Death, without warning

The new Reaper, bizzarrely, is taking the form of a human.  Makes no sense.  Actually, none of the Reaper-making process makes sense.  But that part I'm willing to table until ME 3 (Bioware better have a fantastic explanation though)

But just to add insult to injury, you have to fight it.  Yes, to show off just how bad****  Shepard is, you have to go toe-to-toe with a Reaper.  A larval one, yes, but still a Reaper.

Among many other things.of course.

[Frybread76]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The Human Reaper

Besides being a corny and underwhelming boss fight, the fact that it looked like a giant human skeleton made it incredibly difficult to suspend disbelief. Why would the Reapers create a ship that looks like a human? Would it fly through space like superman?

I get the impression that they're making the core of a new reaper.

Hopefully, this and the Reaper near-religious dedication to whatever their objective is, will be covered in far more detail in ME3.

Yes.  I hope we learn SOMETHING meaningful about the Reapers in the final game.

[Maestro975]

I don't know if this meets the criteria or not, but my wife was really annoyed by "secrets are like herpes, if you got 'em, might as well spread 'em around" despite actually liking the Jay and Silent Bob movies, she still ranked it as one of the most disgusting things she has ever heard.


I really wish EDI had kept her mouth shut on Omega and Illium. On Omega, she pretty much reiterates the same things Aria tells you, which feels really redundant. On Illium, it's annoying that she keeps telling me to recruit Samara or Thane, neither of whom I need.

I also hated how Kelly kept telling me that a squadmate with a loyalty mission I have no interest in doing wants to speak to me. Duh, it's called a journal. Makes it feel like the game is trying to shove said LM down my throat, which increases my desire to NOT want to do it. Thought I was finally free when Kelly got bagged by the Collectors, but then EDI started doing it. Made me wish Joker had pressed that mute button.

[Maestro975]

[quote]LookingGlass93 wrote...

[quote]Aedan_Cousland wrote...


"Shepard, good to see you, hack these terminals."


[/quote]

The hacking bypassing mechanic for ME2 was an improvement. That "skill too low" crap was a pain in the ass, and anyone who actually misses it was a fool.

[Big I]

[quote]Maestro975 wrote...

[quote]LookingGlass93 wrote...

[quote]Aedan_Cousland wrote...


"Shepard, good to see you, hack these terminals."


[/quote]

The hacking bypassing mechanic for ME2 was an improvement. That "skill too low" crap was a pain in the ass, and anyone who actually misses it was a fool.[/quote]

It wasn't the mini-game I minded. It was the "Hello friend/significant other! I see you're back from the dead. Could you run some errands for me?" you get from Liara. At least Wrex and Anderson make you feel welcome.

[Sorwis]

This breather mask-thing is just wrong on many levels. If she was in a vacuum, she would boil to death. And if she was in space, she would firstly boil to death and then freeze. If she was in a hazardous atmosphere, how would a simple snap-on breather mask help that? She would still inhale toxins and her face is still largely uncovered. Where does the oxygen come from? Even if she was in a place with suitable atmosphere she's still vulnerable to temperature and bullets.



I could understand Samara's (excessively)revealing outfit on the Normandy and on peaceful shore-leaves but not in combat. I'd still like to see a little less of her boobage.



There's plenty of good points in this thread.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Here's a new one.  Zaeed's loyalty mission -- and not something I've ever seen mentioned before.  Time it.

If you decide to let the workers die to nail Santiago, you can stop at a point where there is no combat or risk to your team, walk away, go get lunch, watch a show on TV, take a nap, and come back hours later, without pausing the game and you'll still catch up with Santiago.

If you decide to save the workers, you can have the most efficient, no-waiting, kill-kill-kill runthrough, and you'll always, always get there just a moment too late.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 octobre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Hela]

Yeah. It ´s nice to look at all of the fanservice but it really can stretch the mind to being able to remain immersed.



Or not. You can play it just for fun. But they´ve created a really nice and complex lore (not drawing any parallels here to other similar gameworlds, ok).



So it is a universe where we´re being led to perceive it as a wide, open galaxy so you´re bound to ask some more questions, feel intrigued and that´s where you start using logic. Pulling together facts that you´re given. And sometimes the established facts just out right scream at each other.



And so arise the endless "BoobsInSpace"-threads:D

[Frybread76]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Here's a new one.  Zaeed's loyalty mission -- and not something I've ever seen mentioned before.  Time it.

If you decide to let the workers die to nail Santiago, you can stop at a point where there is no combat or risk to your team, walk away, go get lunch, watch a show on TV, take a nap, and come back hours later, without pausing the game and you'll still catch up with Santiago.

If you decide to save the workers, you can have the most efficient, no-waiting, kill-kill-kill runthrough, and you'll always, always get there just a moment too late.

The first two or three times I played Zaeed's loyalty mission as a Paragon Shepard I thought there was an invisible timer, so I would speed through the mission in an attempt to reach Vito before he escaped.  Needless to say, I was disappointed when I learned he gets away no matter how fast you move.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Frybread76 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Here's a new one.  Zaeed's loyalty mission -- and not something I've ever seen mentioned before.  Time it.

If you decide to let the workers die to nail Santiago, you can stop at a point where there is no combat or risk to your team, walk away, go get lunch, watch a show on TV, take a nap, and come back hours later, without pausing the game and you'll still catch up with Santiago.

If you decide to save the workers, you can have the most efficient, no-waiting, kill-kill-kill runthrough, and you'll always, always get there just a moment too late.

The first two or three times I played Zaeed's loyalty mission as a Paragon Shepard I thought there was an invisible timer, so I would speed through the mission in an attempt to reach Vito before he escaped.  Needless to say, I was disappointed when I learned he gets away no matter how fast you move.

The raw, naked artifice of the whole thing, with no actual time involved, just that initial choice, is so galling, so disappointing, that makes me keep looking for a way to edit the savegame so that it thinks I saved the workers AND killed Santiago.

[Felene]

To all who had a problem with companion expose to vacuum in space, here is a little optional reading from NASA.

Modifié par Felene, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:22 .

[ADLegend21]

Benezia "sealing her mind" away from the indoctrination, mercs saying "I WILL DESTROY YOU" and all the buildings on random planets being exactly the same.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Felene wrote...

To all who had a problem with companion expose to vacuum in space, here is a little optional reading from NASA.

Thank you.  That link does point out that some of the common myths are dead wrong, which is always nice to see happen.

I don't know if it fully invalidates the exposure question for ME2, because most last far longer, and some / many are to hazardous environments that aren't vacuum, but some other hazard(s).

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 13 octobre 2010 - 12:21 .