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The Really Bad Moments (Hanging by the Neck Until Dead)


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#201
wizardryforever

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ADLegend21 wrote...

Benezia "sealing her mind" away from the indoctrination


This one is pretty common in any media that involves mind-control.  One person (at least) will be able to resist the control, at least partially, for the sake of the narrative.  It just makes things more interesting if we get to see the real person behind the mask.  Besides, it could be that Benezia realized what was happening to her early and used her biotic training to isolate part of her consciousness to surface at the right moment.  Or some crap like that.

#202
Burdokva

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Felene wrote...

To all who had a problem with companion expose to vacuum in space, here is a little optional reading from NASA.


Your point? Joker in the intro sequence was fine, really, because the entire situation made it plausible he won't be able to get into a suit in time and admittedly Shepard got him to a pod quickly. It more likely that shrapnel could have killed him if vacuum didn't.

Yet your link proves nothing. A man exposed to less than 1psi, but still not vacuum, lost consciousness in 14 seconds. Now, quoting the article:

Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. [...] You would probably pass out in around 15 seconds because your lungs are now exchanging oxygen out of the blood.


Right, so the moment you become a little fatigued, as you would in combat, and start breathing heavily for more oxygen to feed your muscles, you're unconscious. Not to mention sunburn, tissue damage, burst eardrums etc. after a dozen seconds, and death around two minutes.

And is still does not explain how nobody died in the brown dwarf, the coldest known being 360C, average temperatures between 600 and 1000C.

#203
Beerfish

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I haven't read through this whole thread but Jack taking out 4 or 5 heavy mechs by herself as soon as she gets out of Cryo seems way out of whack. If they would have put a whole bunch of guards and soldiers in there fine, possible but multiple heavy mechs when one is a tough opponent for a whole group is pretty far fetched.

#204
Felene

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Burdokva wrote...

Felene wrote...

To all who had a problem with companion expose to vacuum in space, here is a little optional reading from NASA.


Your point? Joker in the intro sequence was fine, really, because the entire situation made it plausible he won't be able to get into a suit in time and admittedly Shepard got him to a pod quickly. It more likely that shrapnel could have killed him if vacuum didn't.

Yet your link proves nothing. A man exposed to less than 1psi, but still not vacuum, lost consciousness in 14 seconds. Now, quoting the article:

Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. [...] You would probably pass out in around 15 seconds because your lungs are now exchanging oxygen out of the blood.


Right, so the moment you become a little fatigued, as you would in combat, and start breathing heavily for more oxygen to feed your muscles, you're unconscious. Not to mention sunburn, tissue damage, burst eardrums etc. after a dozen seconds, and death around two minutes.

And is still does not explain how nobody died in the brown dwarf, the coldest known being 360C, average temperatures between 600 and 1000C.


My previous post was mainly for those who scream "your blood boil in space" comments.

Besides, we don't know exactly how far was the Derelict Reaper from the brown dwarf.

Modifié par Felene, 12 octobre 2010 - 10:44 .


#205
Rivercurse

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I've been able to suspend my disbelief just fine so far throughout the trilogy, despite the plotholes and inconsistencies which have been documented well here over time.



I'm just dreading a deus ex machina ending to the story. Of all the traps BW could fall into during ME3 development, please, please, please make sure you avoid this one.

#206
adam_grif

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Sorwis wrote...

This breather mask-thing is just wrong on many levels. If she was in a vacuum, she would boil to death.


No she wouldn't. Loose water on her skin would boil, but "boiling" just means it turns into a gas. The temperature of the water is not 100 degrees C, it's just body tempereature, ~37 degrees C. It won't burn, it will just disperse, and the person will experience a moderate cooling sensation as it carries a little bit of heat away.

If you're talking about "boiling blood" then you're still wrong. The human body maintains homeostasis at all times, which includes maintaining internal pressure. Exposure to vacuum does not result in blood boiling or anything of that sort.

And if she was in space, she would firstly boil to death and then freeze.


No. Vacuum is the best insulator in existence, her body temperature would remain very high. Astronauts have more trouble cooling down than they do keeping warm.


If she was in a hazardous atmosphere, how would a simple snap-on breather mask help that? She would still inhale toxins and her face is still largely uncovered. Where does the oxygen come from?


Breather mask can filter the atmospheres. Why did you bring up the oxygen point here instead of in space? Its possible that it can convert the CO2 the person is breathing out back into oxygen, plant syle. That can't be kept up indefinately but can for a certain period of time (eventually all the oxygen will be used).


Even if she was in a place with suitable atmosphere she's still vulnerable to temperature and bullets. I could understand Samara's (excessively)revealing outfit on the
Normandy and on peaceful shore-leaves but not in combat. I'd still like
to see a little less of her boobage.


Finally you say something that isn't wrong. Her not wearing armor is the biggest issue.

#207
Hela

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 ...   plant syle.  ...



Pure win. How come we have crouching tigers, hidden dragons and the blasted camel-toes, but this having been completely overlooked...

Modifié par Hela, 12 octobre 2010 - 11:01 .


#208
Iakus

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adam_grif wrote...


No. Vacuum is the best insulator in existence, her body temperature would remain very high. Astronauts have more trouble cooling down than they do keeping warm.


Freezing, burning, irradiating, pressure, or lack of it, I think we can all agree that the vacuum of space is not an enviroment where one wants to be without protective gear.  Even that Ask an Astrophysicist link was measuring time before permanent damage in fractions of a minute.

If she was in a hazardous atmosphere, how would a simple snap-on breather mask help that? She would still

Breather mask can filter the atmospheres. Why did you bring up the oxygen point here instead of in space? Its possible that it can convert the CO2 the person is breathing out back into oxygen, plant syle. That can't be kept up indefinately but can for a certain period of time (eventually all the oxygen will be used).


if a simple ened for breathable air was all that was needed, that would be fine.  But what about enviroments with caustic chemicals in the air? Extreme heat or cold?  Toxic enviroments?  Or the quarian fleet, where everything has to remain sterilized for the quarian survival?

#209
Guest_Shandepared_*

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Rivercurse wrote...

I'm just dreading a deus ex machina ending to the story. Of all the traps BW could fall into during ME3 development, please, please, please make sure you avoid this one.


They're already setting this up.

#210
anmiro

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Let me start by saying I love both ME1 and ME2.

Hands down, the worst part of ME2, is when we are forced by EDI to load up all of our squad members on to the shuttle and the Normandy gets attacked by Collectors. Every time I play this game it just completely takes me out of the story. The attack on the Normandy and Jokers moment in the spotlight is, in my opinion, very cool. But I cant believe Bioware couldn't come up with a less obvious way of setting up this scene. It was just bad story telling.

In ME1, one part I really hate is when the Thorian is spitting out the Asari clones and they are fully clothed and armed with shotguns. I don't know much about cloning, but I don't think it works that way. It reminded me of an episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force when the guys are cloning money and TVs.

Modifié par anmiro, 13 octobre 2010 - 01:12 .


#211
Frybread76

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anmiro wrote...

Let me start by saying I love both ME1 and ME2.

Hands down, the worst part of ME2, is when we are forced by EDI to load up all of our squad members on to the shuttle for a non existent mission and the Normandy gets attacked by Collectors. Every time I play this game it just completely takes me out of the story. 


In ME1, one part I really hate is when the Thorian is spitting out the Asari clones and they are fully clothed and armed with shotguns. I don't know much about cloning, but I don't think it works that way. It reminded me of an episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force when the guys are cloning money and TVs.


Ah, I forgot about this part in ME1.  I agree, it is pretty damn bad.

#212
Rivercurse

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Shandepared wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

I'm just dreading a deus ex machina ending to the story. Of all the traps BW could fall into during ME3 development, please, please, please make sure you avoid this one.


They're already setting this up.


How

#213
JaegerBane

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adam_grif wrote...
"Stupid" reasons? On what basis are you declaring them stupid?


On the basis that there is no real reason for decreeing them as wrong beyond the fact that the person says they are. There's nothing inherently wrong or impossible about a synthetic life form based on human DNA looking like a human nor is there anything particularly crazy about a species that evolved from a similar primate-like species looking similar to us, barring the obvious monogendered nature (which, by the way, they'd have to appear female to our eyes as they physically wouldn't be able to reproduce otherwise).

I'm not saying that the person somehow *has to* find them completely acceptable, but we're discussing stuff that has such a catastrophic impact on their 'SoD' as you call it that it throws them out of the game. If you're honestly seeing that affect just because you come across an alien that looks like a blue woman with tentacles on their head then, ultimately, it becomes a question of whether your reaction is reasonable. It's not like you get attacked by a bloomin' Orc wielding a sword and shield or face a bunch of 1920s era gangsters.

They are so human that they wore human armor in ME1. Their body shape and portions are exactly that of modern, human, attractive, western females. Even our own human ancestors in the very recent evolutionary past looked less like humans than Asari did. No pallet swap changes this fact.


This is patently absurd logic. There is no such thing as an 'exact' body shape and portion of any group of people across the entire damn world - it's total nonsense. They happen to be similar enough to fit into armour designed to fit females of the entire bloody human species, that's all. Assuming they evolved from a similar creature to us (i.e. a mammalian, primate-like creature on a planet similar to ours), the idea that they're roughly similar to us in terms of body shape isn't that hard to accept. Hell, the similarities between human and squid eyes are startling, despite the fact that the two species are virtual polar opposites - and that's just on our own planet, and more imprortantly, non-fiction.


Or maybe they're complaining because it is a GIANT HUMANOID ROBOT when Reapers are STARSHIPS.


Actually, Reapers are synthetic life forms. That's all. The fact that you've decided a starship has to look like something that isn't humanoid is your own problem, and not something the story has to cater for. It's made blatantly clear why it looks humanoid.

Have you actually considered where your logic is going, here? That it's gotten so silly that you're content for a starship to look like a giant squid, but you draw the line at it looking like a giant human? And you expect reasoning such as this to be taken seriously?

See, I think those are less bad than thige things you are complaining about people complaining about. Because Jack's bulletproof nipples I can always just imagine away as "oh she never 'really' got hit!" I can recognize that its some sort of gameplay conceit in most cases, or a bug or a programming oversight that I can realize isn't canonical. Shepard can't really drink through his helmet, it's just a minor design oversight. Big deal.


Oh, yeah, you have a problem with the idea of an alien looking a certain way, but when liquid magically phases through solid matter you call it an 'oversight'? So if Darth Vader suddenly walked into a bar and through a drink into his own masked face, you'd ignore it? Give me a break. As for Jack's nipple-straps - it isn't even clear that kind of thing would physically work let alone be an actual realistic choice. It may fit into something like the 5th element, but no-one else in the entire game barring strippers wears stuff like that. I can fully understand someone questioning them on a supposed criminal.

#214
RyuGuitarFreak

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All team on shuttle. That was the one moment.

#215
JaegerBane

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anmiro wrote...

Let me start by saying I love both ME1 and ME2.

Hands down, the worst part of ME2, is when we are forced by EDI to load up all of our squad members on to the shuttle and the Normandy gets attacked by Collectors. Every time I play this game it just completely takes me out of the story. The attack on the Normandy and Jokers moment in the spotlight is, in my opinion, very cool. But I cant believe Bioware couldn't come up with a less obvious way of setting up this scene. It was just bad story telling.


Yeah. I refuse to believe that whole section was the best idea Bioware could think of to get all of the team off the Normandy. Hell, even if Shep just took them for a few drinks at Omega before they hit the Relay, that would have been a better idea than 'Ok everyone, uh, get on the shuttle. We're going for a ride...'

#216
MrFob

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wizardryforever wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Benezia "sealing her mind" away from the indoctrination


This one is pretty common in any media that involves mind-control.  One person (at least) will be able to resist the control, at least partially, for the sake of the narrative.  It just makes things more interesting if we get to see the real person behind the mask.  Besides, it could be that Benezia realized what was happening to her early and used her biotic training to isolate part of her consciousness to surface at the right moment.  Or some crap like that.


This one is actually not so bad. We see in several instances that indoctrination is not necessarily a complete control mechanism. It is even explained by Saren, that the more a subject is indoctrinated, the less able it becomes. Benezia had to be very able to take charge on Novaria. Saren also can break away from the control as he shoots himself (if you persuade him). It is best seen in Retribution, where we get a good idea what is going on in Graysons mind. Though his transformation is even beyond indoctrination, he does have the ability to resist and even in the last stages he is still partially successful. So I don't have any problem with Benezia slipping out of it. Different to the book, the game (just like a movie) does not have the ability to show what happens in a persons mind so they had to take the less subtle approach to let Benezia talk like a scizophrenic. The change is a it sudden but I think all in all this fits into the whole indoctrination theme nicely.

#217
yummysoap

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Asari. They are aliens - less biologically in common with humans than we are with livestock, yet they're just blue human females with head-tentacles.



Then I remember it's sci-fi and that sci-fi can't exist without sexy blue aliens.

#218
Eber

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Lilitv wrote...



On a another note, the relevation that Reapers are partially organic know makes me view Sovereign differently. So is Sovereign really blissfully unaware of its components, or does it have some sort of disorder which makes it deny being partially organic?




He knows. That's why they put Shepard's ridiculous "you are just a machine" in as a mandatory, unavoidable, line in ME1 and had Sovereign laugh at the Commander and dismiss the notion.



"My kind transcends your understanding", "you can not grap the nature of our existence" and all that.

#219
GuardianAngel470

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I concur, the moment where I had to take my whole team with me on a shuttle to a destination I hadn't even selected was the killer. Hell, it would have been almost acceptable if they had let me choose a destination and a mission before springing that on me.

Other than that, Miranda's clothing and the breathing masks. Her clothing is absolutely ridiculous. I've seen prostitutes where less revealing clothing. Seriously Bioware, there's feeling conflicted about one's attributes and trying to compensate for this confliction by wearing revealing clothing and then there's freaking stupid. This took me out of the game every time I spoke with Miranda and she was standing because it immediately rendered her character unbelievable.

And the breathing masks were just pure, unadulterated laziness. I can understand being able to survive in a vacuum without a proper suit but seriously, who does that? Just because you can doesn't mean it is a good idea (looking at you Cerberus...And Bioware). Yeah you technically won't die but if you enter direct sunlight you'll be fried. Direct sunlight in space is around 300 F in our solar system.

EDIT: That is, it makes any objects in direct sunlight 300 F.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:43 .


#220
anmiro

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

mosor wrote...

iakus wrote...


Cerberus, the super-secret, quasi-terrorist organization, whom it is a capital offense to even be a member, puts its logo on everything, including the side of the Normandy


Are you sure it's a Cerberus logo and not the logo of one of their front companies? Jack may have recognized it, but she's been researching Cerberus for years.


Yeah, I think it's sort of established somewhere that it's meant to be Cord-Hislop, Inc. logo. It's a Cerberus front spacecraft manufacturing company Paul Grayson was working for. The Normandy SR-2 may be registered as property of that company.


I realize that the connection between Cerberus and Cord-Hislop, Inc is well established in the books, but does it have any foundation in the games?

#221
The Grey Ranger

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I agree with the lack of armor thing. Not so much because of vaccum, but because we're going into a firefight. My fem shep kinda wanted to say to Miranda/Jack/Sammara, let me loan you some armor, I have some spares.



Oh and on the Kasumi loyalty mission, Fem Shep's little black dress has kinetic barriers, damn I want whoever built that thing for my tailor.

#222
pjotroos

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The thing that tested my suspension of disbelief the most was the beginning. Not the planetfall, and not the resurrection - the fact I immidiately find out it's all Cerberus doing, and the ease with which I'm supposed to get over it and start to cooperate. I was fresh after another playthrough of first Mass Effect and I did all sidequests involving Cerberus there. Being Akuze survivor, I learned about their involvement in the thresher maw attack. There was no way I would agree to cooperate so easily. I missed the option to simply send Miranda and Jacob to hell, to be openly hostile with TIM, to demand a visit to Citadel before touching anything like Freedom's Progress. I didn't trust them, and I had no reason to believe I was dead for two years and they were my saviours. For all I knew, I could've been retrieved by the Alliance and then kidnapped by Cerberus while unconcious. The whole switching sides was handled horribly - and worse so, completely pointless. TIM could just as well be behind Terra Firma, or some other, yet unmet shady organization. Or he could be Cerberus, but without us finding out until much later on. Instead, writers took the worst way about it. I didn't properly get into the game until at the very least replacing Miranda in my squad. And I hated it every single time when someone had a go at me for working with Cerberus - Tali, Anderson, Garrus, Ashley. If you really want us getting all that flack, at least make it about something that was really our choice!



And I agree about the catwalk outfits. I never had, and I doubt I ever will have, Samara in any of my teams, simply because of how ridiculous she looks.