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[upsettingshorts]

Selene Moonsong wrote...
 DAO unlocks certain things based on events, level ranges are also used to some extent, primarily Skills and Talents. Skills limit your access to some Talents as you need to have certain Skill levels before you can take some of the Talents. Skill points aren't awarded at every level, while Talents are. And, when you max out, you do not get additional Skills or Talents because you cannot advance or even gain XP.

All of which is more or less irrelevant to the concept of New Game Plus as exemplified by Mass Effect, is it not?  Or are you saying that there is no possible reason why say, someone would ever play a L60 character through another game using NG+?

Selene Moonsong wrote...
Also, DAO doesn't save the character seperately

Now that is a fair point.  Does DA:2 work the same way?

[Slayer299]

edit fix

Modifié par Slayer299, 11 octobre 2010 - 02:12 .

[Havokk7]

Aradace wrote...
Im merely saying that you are naieve for thinking that BioWare is some "white knight" company with only it's "hardcore" gamers in mind.

You've missed my point. I'm simply saying I don't want them to spend any of their budget on this feature.
Whether or not they do actually spend their budget is up to them. it is *their* budget after all; they will spend it how they see fit, given their CBA. I'm just letting them, and this community, know what I want.

[Aradace]

Havokk7 wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Im merely saying that you are naieve for thinking that BioWare is some "white knight" company with only it's "hardcore" gamers in mind.

You've missed my point. I'm simply saying I don't want them to spend any of their budget on this feature.
Whether or not they do actually spend their budget is up to them. it is *their* budget after all; they will spend it how they see fit, given their CBA. I'm just letting them, and this community, know what I want.

Again, something as simple as a NG+ feature would not take as much time, resources, etc. as some of you would like to think. For you (and others) to think that putting what little money it would take into implementing this feature would in anyway drain BW's resources or degrade the story in any way is not only silly, but pretty disconcerting as well.  I do agree with you though that it IS up to them whether or not they do it and like you, I am "Letting them, and this community, know what I want." and that is a NG+.  Im not saying it as really an "ultimatum" but in all honesty, whether or not I actually buy this game hinges on there is a NG+ feature or not.  That's not to say I wont play it.  Im merely saying that I want to know ahead of time whether or not DA2 is going to actually have a feature I want in it or not.  Why? That way if it doesnt, I can just rent it from gamefly, play it once or twice and then ship it back, saving myself $60 in the process. 

[Selene Moonsong]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Now that is a fair point.  Does DA:2 work the same way?

I suspect DA 2 may well be the same engine at its core based on what I have read in the forums at various time, especially since the Devs have suggested that the toolset for DA:2 is essentially the same core toolset for DA:O in topics where requests for a DA:2 toolset have been discussed.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 11 octobre 2010 - 11:37 .

[Aradace]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Now that is a fair point.  Does DA:2 work the same way?

I suspect DA 2 may well be the same engine at its core based on what I have read in the forums at various time, especially since the Devs have suggested that the toolset for DA:2 is essentially the same core toolset for DA:O in topics where requests for a DA:2 toolset have been discussed.

That doesnt mean they "cant" or "wont" add a NG+ feature.  Again, it really is up to the Devs in the end and anyone who thinks that it would make DA2 any less of a game by having it included is just simply being silly.

[Selene Moonsong]

Aradace wrote...

That doesn't mean they "cant" or "wont" add a NG+ feature.  Again, it really is up to the Devs in the end and anyone who thinks that it would make DA2 any less of a game by having it included is just simply being silly.

I'm not saying can't or won't. I'm not against the idea of including NG+ either, and I would probably try it once if implemented. 

I would, however, suggest reading my comments in this post as I believe some of those folks interested in implementing NG+ may be under-stating the cost of implementation.

From my own experience with application development, to go back and make fundamental changes to allow for adding x, y, or, z, capabilities takes quite a bit of work, primarily in debugging and testing, even for those that may seem straight forward and relatively easy, as even a minor change can affect an entire project adversely, ranging from minor bugs that are easily fixed, to catastrophic failures that may lead to scrapping of the changes at worst.

Only so many zots are allocated to the various components that make up the project, with project meaning DA: 2 and zots being a term used to describe combinations of time, money, manpower, etc.

If BioWare has enough zots available within the appropriate compnent areas for implementing NG+, it then becomes a matter of priority assignment for use of those zots. Those things seen as mandatory to the project will take priority over over 'nice to have' functions.

[ladydesire]

While NG+ might be "nice to have", for those that would use it, the plain truth is that Bioware would probably prefer to make an expansion for DA2; most of the pieces that exist in Dragon Age Origins are in fact designed around importing the character into the expansion to advance the story, rather than replay the existing adventure at a higher level. The reason NG+ works in ME is because the Unreal Engine seems to be designed around self contained stories and multiplayer instead of expansions.

[crimzontearz]

uh.....people do realize right that the developers THEMSELVES said that implementing NG+ per se is pretty much VERY easy and the only complicated bit is playtesting it? (look in the old ME2 board for the direct quote from either preston or christina)



note that in DAO you CAN achieve level 25 in Ostagar AND within an hour playing Warden's keep and Return to Ostagar be in possess of the VERY best armor and weapons ion the whole game (warden commander's armor, King Caelan's armor + sword + shield, Starfang) and have some 100+ sovereigns....



and guess what? the rest of the game plays without a single hitch (aside for the inability to properly choose all your talents for your companions whioch can be easily rectified AND which happens anyways but in a smaller way if you just level up normally and pick up certain characters later on in the game like Oghren)



which means a NG+ in DAO would have pretty much needed no playtesting at all and some minor flagging/tweaking (as it was already suggested before).



and how in the name of GOD does a graphical engine (U3) have anything to do AT ALL with the gaming system? those are totally separate



some people seem VERY stubbornly opposed to NG+ simply because they do not know all the facts or they choose to ignore them

[Aradace]

ladydesire wrote...

While NG+ might be "nice to have", for those that would use it, the plain truth is that Bioware would probably prefer to make an expansion for DA2; most of the pieces that exist in Dragon Age Origins are in fact designed around importing the character into the expansion to advance the story, rather than replay the existing adventure at a higher level. The reason NG+ works in ME is because the Unreal Engine seems to be designed around self contained stories and multiplayer instead of expansions.

Still doesnt mean they wont do it though.  Dont get me wrong, Im not saying I wont play the game if it's not implemented.  The only thing Im really wanting, is to know whether or not for 100% certain if this feature will be added to DA2 or not BEFORE release that way I know whether or not Im either buying the game, or simply renting it.  No NG+ will mean that I'll only be renting the game, playing through it once or twice, and then sending it back to gamefly.  It'll also mean that I'll be avoiding any and all Dragon Age titles in terms of "buying" in the future as well.  They'll all be put on my "rental" list by default.  I played through Origins with each class, and then a couple more times after that with variants of the Warrior and Rogue and that was it.  The game quickly lost it's appeal to me after that.  I grew up on RPGs, quite literally.  So if there was an RPG (unless it was a PC only title) growing up, it was certain that I had played it.  So "not liking RPGs" isnt the issue.  It's just that playing through a game 5-6 times and then getting bored of it does NOT constitute as "Good" replay value IMO.  Not when it comes to RPGs anyway. 

I also know that there are some people who think that 5-6 playthroughs is more than enough for a game.  Which is fine, I can sympathize with that.  But for some of us, myself included, it's not.  And therefore a title like this gets pushed into "rental" status instead of actually wanting to own it.  So for me, while Im on the side of the debate of actually wanting a NG+ feature, it's more of a "need to know" basis kind of thing now.  By which I mean I "Need to know" whether or not they are going to implement this feature or not before March 2011 so that I know whether or not I need to put this on my GameQ for renting, or pre-order it and prepare to buy it.

[Ulquiorra_4_Esparda]

I love new game +. Especially when a game generally doesn't allow you to reach level cap until the very end IF you do EVERYTHING. I want to see how my character and his/her team feels when at their fullest potential. Now it can even be more fun if after completing the game being given extremely hard difficulty that can only be completed with max level characters, if possible even throw some NG+ specific equipment to earn. A TRULY hardcore experience.

I wish I had some skill at modding or I would try to make that .

Modifié par Ulquiorra_4_Esparda, 11 octobre 2010 - 04:22 .

[AlanC9]

Aradace wrote...
I also know that there are some people who think that 5-6 playthroughs is more than enough for a game.

That isn't the right way to describe the issue. Nothing's preventing anyone from playing the game thirty or forty times. You just don't seem to like creating new characters, so that doesn't work for you.  (I've never quite understand how the "same" character can do the same things twice in his lifetime(s), but what of it? That's your business.)

As for the overall point, I have to agree that if DA2 uses the same bad scaling system that DAO did, NG+ is a trivial feature to add and might as well be in.  My position is that I want scaling drastically limited -- a three or four level range at most. Well, really I want it removed altogether, but that's not likely. So if I get what I want NG+ will be a cakewalk; that will work for some NG+ fans, but not all.

[Aradace]

AlanC9 wrote...

Aradace wrote...
I also know that there are some people who think that 5-6 playthroughs is more than enough for a game.

That isn't the right way to describe the issue. Nothing's preventing anyone from playing the game thirty or forty times. You just don't seem to like creating new characters, so that doesn't work for you.  (I've never quite understand how the "same" character can do the same things twice in his lifetime(s), but what of it? That's your business.)

As for the overall point, I have to agree that if DA2 uses the same bad scaling system that DAO did, NG+ is a trivial feature to add and might as well be in.  My position is that I want scaling drastically limited -- a three or four level range at most. Well, really I want it removed altogether, but that's not likely. So if I get what I want NG+ will be a cakewalk; that will work for some NG+ fans, but not all.

You're right, I dont like having to start over from scratch.  Some games, starting over works.  But in an RPG, I hate having to reroll and create a new character every single time.  It may not have been the best way to describe the issue as you said, but it was the best way I knew how lol.  It's a matter of what people find "replay" worthy I guess.  For me, starting over from scratch every single time in an RPG gets old, fast.  As someone else already pointed out, the Devs themselves have already stated that adding a NG+ feature would be more or less a trivial issue.  And that the "biggest" part of it would be "playtesting".  With that being the case, who's to say they arent in the process of doing just that right now or in the very near future.  Again, whether it's added or not in the end, isnt going to make me angry one way or the other,  As Ive said, I merely need to know whether or not I need to put this on my "rental" list (If no NG+ feature is going to be added) or if I need to pre-order it (If a NG+ is going to be added).  And ideally, I'd like to know one way or the other before it's release date. 

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

I think David said it himself that it won't happen. I myself wouldn't want to start the game all over with my level 25 fully-geared character but I don't see harm in having NG+ or whatever in the game.

[AlanC9]

Aradace wrote...
But in an RPG, I hate having to reroll and create a new character every single time.

Reroll? Guess you've been at RPGs awhile. 

[crimzontearz]

Again with the resources BS.



The devs themselves as well as experienced modders said the feature is ludicrously easy to implement and that it only needs to be tested......and guess what? DAO had no resources put in NG+ testing yet you can give yourself an ng+ experience via exploits and console commands and the game still works perfectly. People need to stop with these lines of defense. Also.... even if it costed some resources, how is a feature that allows a lot of people to enjoy a number of extra playthroughs (which they would not get otherwise since they would lose interest) not worth putting resources into? Because perhaps not every single player would use it? Well then what is the point of having the option for male and female Hawke? After all a lot of players will not use the female option and those resources could be spent elsewhere....right?

[Selene Moonsong]

crimzontearz wrote...

Again with the resources BS.

The devs themselves as well as experienced modders said the feature is ludicrously easy to implement and that it only needs to be tested...

If it is so easy to implement, whay haven't community modders done so already for DA:O?

As far as the female character comment... that's a strawman argument.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 11 octobre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Maverick827]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Again with the resources BS.

The devs themselves as well as experienced modders said the feature is ludicrously easy to implement and that it only needs to be tested...

If it is so easy to implement, whay haven't community modders done so already for DA:O?

Do we have the ability to mod the title screen/UI?  Do we have the ability to alter the level of enemies?  I'm honestly unaware of what we can and cannot do, but all NG+ needs, in the most basic forum, is to simply increase every enemy's level by that of the player's chosen starting level.  Simple addition.

[crimzontearz]

Uh because as is said if you are on pc you can give yourself NG+ with the console commands so there would be little point in working on a custom feature like that. If you are looking for a direct quote just go to the old ME2 board and make a search. As further proof that NG+ is not THAT hard to put in....NG+ in ME2 was worked on and implemented only a few months before release. Whoever was around back then can confirm that since there was a huge uproar about it.

[Maverick827]

scyphozoa wrote...

Resources are required to make the game actually designed for NG+ if it is not already. Having NG+ without the game being designed for it is useless. Asking the devs to design the game to accommodate NG+ would absolutely require resources.

I don't want NG+ just to be tacked on like it was in ME2. No offense to ME2 devs, it was very much fan service for people begging for it, in fact CrimsonTearz was one of the biggest advocates on the old ME2 forums. Truthfully, I think ME2 is an excellent example of why you should NOT just add NG+ to a game that is not designed to accommodate it.

Define resources and explain in great detail why they would be wasted.  Be sure to cite specific examples.

[crimzontearz]

Really scyphozoa? Because you can give yourselfNG+ in DAO with no issues and the devs did not build it fo NG+...or did they? The very nature of Dragon age allows you takle nearly any quest in any order since your, enemies scale with you if you visit areas at different times and so on....the game evenwithout ng+ needs to account for you starting any quest at nearly any level and with any gear...the game is already made to sustain NG+ even tho it was not voluntary. Face it...they could add anag+ with no problem...I M just hoping they do and that they tell us before release date

[ladydesire]

Aradace wrote...

  It's just that playing through a game 5-6 times and then getting bored of it does NOT constitute as "Good" replay value IMO.  

A lot of players only play through a game one time; if they like it and it can be modded, it stays on the hard drive. Otherwise, it gets uninstalled and put on the shelf for a few years, then reinstalled to play again. Why do you think Baldur's Gate is still popular over 10 years after it was released? Why is Neverwinter Nights still popular? Adding New Game + only benefits in the short term; a good story and good quality player-created content will benefit them for much longer.