84 réponses à ce sujet

[Reiella]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Does there need to be?

Dragon Age has 1,500 of history to it. They have an entire continent and even some of the world fleshed out. Ferelden is a backwater country, and there are three archdemons left.

Thedas has 1500 years of history.

Dragon Age has 100.  30 of which happened so far in game .

And 2 archdemons [I can't count and kept skipping Andoral, sorry heh].  That said, doubt we'll see either Razikale or Lusacan this age.  We may, but doubtful.

[Maria Caliban]

I think it's 3.



IIRC: The only way you become a Grey Warden is through drinking archdemon blood. The first time they 'killed' an archdemon, it wouldn't have really died but shunted itself to another darkspawn.



Unless they killed the first archdemon twice.

[Reiella]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think it's 3.

IIRC: The only way you become a Grey Warden is through drinking archdemon blood. The first time they 'killed' an archdemon, it wouldn't have really died but shunted itself to another darkspawn.

Unless they killed the first archdemon twice.

Well, they just need a sample of blood, so perhaps just wound enough to get them to bleed and collect.  But ya, most likly.

But there are 2 blights left though, unless this one isn't done as you suggest.
Dumat : 800 TE
Zazikel : 1:5 Divine
Toth : 3:10 Towers
Andoral : 5:12 Exalted
Urthemial : 9:30 Dragon.

[Kalfear]

Well I think I just got wqhat would be used as "cannon" if there was a cannon story (for a book or movie)



Originally I let Logain gain back his honor and put his daughter on Throne, that just didnt ring true to me when I read all the endings though. The bit about Allistar becomeing some drunk in a far away land was just to much.Plus the Queen coming down on the elves later isnt the happy ending people look for in a story.



So I loaded from a save, let Allistar kill Logain, imprison Logains daughter till he could sort that out and join me to fight the arch Demon. Plus I slept with Morrigan one last time (gotta have a sequel, whats more epic then son against father?)



Anyways, I suspect the Cannon version would be this:



Allistar takes the throne. Redcliff Earl stays to help him as does Wynne and Ogdan

Stern returns to his lands but forshadows we will meet again

Leilanna and I go off to rebuild the Wardens

Morrigan goes off and cant be tracked but people think shes seen with child

The Elves get their own lands, The elvish Aleinage works with Allistar to improve things

Mages rebuild

The Red Cliff brother becomes Earl.

and the dwarves sink into more isolation (this the one im not sure of personally) but do allow a circle of magic to be built in city.

Oh I was human btw so my brother returned to hightower to become lord there



Everything just fits for the most part, it sounds right as far as fantasy stories go.

[Jersey75639]

I just don't see the sequel not incorporating Morrigan having a baby with the soul of an old god, because that's just too good of a starting point for a sequel to pass up imo.



Thinking about it a lot, I've even considered the possibility that the next game is going to start out and you're going to be that kid, grown up and maybe not realizing you have that soul within you. That seems like a REALLY interesting prospect, in my opinion, though I'm probably way off the mark. It's a really appealing idea with plenty of possibilities for a juicy plot, though.

[Nudo Judo]

I imagine the canon ending involves Morrigan having the archdemon-souled-baby(ASB).  Not only did Lord Gaider hint that the story of Morrigan isn't done, but it's easily the most enticing of the possible endings.  Your character and all his buddies still live, and you have one heck of a potential conflict with the ASB.

With the ASB, you possibly have a human being with the ability to command the darkspawn.  Which could possibly be worst than any blight, assuming humans are more intelligent than old gods and darkspawn. It's got evil in its soul and Morrigan as its mother, and it's debatable which is going to mess the kid up more.  There's no way that kid will ever be right in the head.

[Jersey75639]

Could be wrong, but I believe it was said in the game (though by Morrigan, so very possibly just a lie) that the taint that made the old god's soul into an archdemon (or however you'd like to phrase that) would be gone, so I'm not sure it would still be able to command darkspawn, or have anything to do with them.



I haven't read much of the lore in game about it though, so I don't know.

[Cade Darkspear]

It has been mentioned in an interview that they would like to use saved games from the first game to influence the second game. My thoughts would be that the most important element of the first story to carry over would be Morrigan having the Old God possessed baby.

So.. It seems a simple beginning to the second game for players that did not help Morrigan would be that somehow she was able to use a ritual on the dead Warden which would free the Old God's spirit from the Warden into whatever bastard seed she was able to find and in turn resurrect the dead Warden (bringing the player character back to life if you sacrifice yourself). And in only a few short hours time of gameplay (the same as the Origin stories) you could reach a point in the game where all possible beginnings converge.

Of course this is only speculation and the the writers may not even have an outline for the sequel themselves.

[Dsentinel]

I had the Morrigan makes super baby and I kill dragon ending. My question is can I romance Leliana and Morrigan, while still getting a different ending? Ne one try this?

Also I'd rather see them do the Mass effect 2 thing, make the story change based upon whichever ending u had.

Modifié par Dsentinel, 12 novembre 2009 - 07:54 .

[scfs123]

see issue i have with canon ending, is you chose 3 different armies on your way to the final choosings.

Dwarven choices, did you leave anvil up so army of golems could be made or do otherwise?

Mages, cleanse them and have the chantry replace them with chanters, or help them rebuild?

Wereolves and elves, well hell in both situations the werewolves don't survive long >.>

[Onyx Jaguar]

Cade Darkspear wrote...

It has been mentioned in an interview that they would like to use saved games from the first game to influence the second game. My thoughts would be that the most important element of the first story to carry over would be Morrigan having the Old God possessed baby.

So.. It seems a simple beginning to the second game for players that did not help Morrigan would be that somehow she was able to use a ritual on the dead Warden which would free the Old God's spirit from the Warden into whatever bastard seed she was able to find and in turn resurrect the dead Warden (bringing the player character back to life if you sacrifice yourself). And in only a few short hours time of gameplay (the same as the Origin stories) you could reach a point in the game where all possible beginnings converge.

Of course this is only speculation and the the writers may not even have an outline for the sequel themselves.

Hopefully that won't be the case.  I'd speculate that they would go 50/50  on possibilities of being a demon baby or no baby or baby (not sure how it works, I rejected the offer but I was romancing Morrigan, don't know if she has a baby regardless).  Personally I'd hope that this storyline would be in DLC and that the next Dragon Age takes place in a different location that would be a bit removed from Ferelden so the queling of the blight and other political ramifications have a bigger impact while the endings would remain valid for the player.  After all most of the endings ended in the sacrificing of a Grey Warden.

[TremCenwyth]

This post might sound a tad moralistic and angry but I feel compelled to respond to some of the Morrigan worship on these forums that, quite frankly, I don't think the character deserves.

Firstly, let's address the idea of canon endings: no thanks. I would like to make it clear right now that I'd rather not play through the consequences of other people's sadistic choices in the sequel. Let's take the original post as an example. Sariusmonk sees this as canon and a "true" ending:

* Alistair is executed by Queen Anora
* Morrigan is impregnated with demon/god-baby

First of all, I can't even imagine anyone having Alistair executed. Are you kidding me? At the hands of whom? A backstabbing, two-faced Queen who you barely know? Or Loghain, the man who would have had you killed ten times over if he could? And you would sacrifice your only surviving friend after Ostagar, the very same man that has helped you all this time and accompanied you through thick and thin, such a beautifully written character -- you would sacrifice him? And you wish THIS to be considered the canon for the Dragon Age world? I won't have any of that. You can have your orgy of violence and betrayal if you like it, but don't try to tell me that THAT is the way things "should" have turned out. No thanks to the idea of canon endings, Bioware.

-------------

And now let's get to the part concerning Morrigan specifically. First of all, she is a poorly written character among other brilliantly written and beautiful characters. Her entire character and reason for existence can be wrapped up in one simple phrase: "hurr, I'm evil." Even Loghain was more human than she was -- it could even be argued that Loghain had good intentions. A case of the ends not justifying the means and such. But Morrigan? No, sorry, she's about as interesting as your typical sociopath.

Let's take a look at this for example:

Cade Darkspear wrote...

for players that did not help Morrigan

Oh my! For players who did not help Morrigan! Oh, poor Morrigan! How could we not "help" her? Help her by having her sire her demonspawn baby for personal gain? That would essentially make the entire quest meaningless. It would all be for naught. That would have been like coming to the end of LoTR and having Frodo and company hold on to the ring instead of destroying it, you know, just in case it comes in handy in the future. So the very idea that she would have even asked that of me at the end, after all we have been through, was a huge slap in the face. It just went to show how she hasn't changed one bit for all the time that we have travelled together. She would rather all of our efforts have gone to WASTE and risk everything, including the future of Ferelden, for personal gain.

I'm playing an evil character on my second playthrough and I'm "helping" Morrigan out alright -- you know those Dalish elves you encounter in the Brecilian forest? Well, she cheered me on as I decided to slaughter every last one of them. Is this the great character you want to be "helping"? Oh, poor Morrigan! Morrigan is not someone to be "helped" -- she's someone to be sided with. And if you side with her then it's clear that your loyalties do not lie with the future of Ferelden, or with the allies that you have made -- but with some sociopath hell-bent on self-preservation and empowerment. But hey, at least she has huge breasts, amirite? HURR HURR

------------

For the record, on my first playthrough I had Alistair become King and sacrificed myself at the end. I think it's part of his character development.. the entire game, for me, has really been Alistair's "coming of age" story. And I was proud as **** to see him grow throughout the game and eventually take responsibility and lead Ferelden.

As far as I'm concerned, this was Alistair's story. I was just taken along for the ride, and it was satisfying enough to serve as his mentor and to see him through to the end. But that's just how I see it, and I would not consider forcing that view on others. Which is why I say NAY, GOOD SIRS to the idea of there being a canon storyline.

[Vilegrim]

hopefully they continue the story of morrigan, with either your character (if you survived) or another grey warden having to find her, demon baby story in orlais is just to good to pass up, plus I want to be able to earn that happy romance with Morrigan dammit, maybe not a happy ever after, but at least hope of one.

[Sariusmonk]

@TremCenwyth regarding my post saying how I had Alistair killed, I don't mean I consider that cannon, I was just mentioning that was the path I took, the only thing I'd consider that would be "carried over" is the old-god inside Morrigan's baby,.. I just happened to throw in the mention of the way it ended for me, and mentioned that all my allies survive as do myself, except I pointed out Alistair didn't survive,.. however, I doubt that's canon obviously, if there even is canon with this game. I enjoyed reading your opinion, and I only wanted to discuss opinion, not necessarily force what I consider right, just saying how it felt to me.



I'll be happy if there is no canon ending, I think I'd actually prefer it that way, but as far as plot devices go, I do feel it has a lot of potential having an old-god in a baby, and that interests me for future story.

[Creomortis]

In my ending alistair and anora marry. Alistair is happy.

I have a child with morigan and she dissappears but thinks of me etc.

loghain lived aswell and becomes a good grey warden.

I choose to travel to find morigan.



That felt like a proper ending to me.

[Vilegrim]

Sariusmonk wrote...

@TremCenwyth regarding my post saying how I had Alistair killed, I don't mean I consider that cannon, I was just mentioning that was the path I took, the only thing I'd consider that would be "carried over" is the old-god inside Morrigan's baby,.. I just happened to throw in the mention of the way it ended for me, and mentioned that all my allies survive as do myself, except I pointed out Alistair didn't survive,.. however, I doubt that's canon obviously, if there even is canon with this game. I enjoyed reading your opinion, and I only wanted to discuss opinion, not necessarily force what I consider right, just saying how it felt to me.

I'll be happy if there is no canon ending, I think I'd actually prefer it that way, but as far as plot devices go, I do feel it has a lot of potential having an old-god in a baby, and that interests me for future story.

thing is, who is king/queen wouldn't matter that much to a sequel. Meaning that it is easy to carry over and doesn't necessarily change the plot, it's PC death that would be the biggy

[Taleroth]

Creomortis wrote...

In my ending alistair and anora marry. Alistair is happy. 

How did you manage this?  I tried for this, but ol Al's demands for Loghain's head stopped it in its tracks.

[Reiella]

scfs123 wrote...

see issue i have with canon ending, is you chose 3 different armies on your way to the final choosings.
Dwarven choices, did you leave anvil up so army of golems could be made or do otherwise?
Mages, cleanse them and have the chantry replace them with chanters, or help them rebuild?
Wereolves and elves, well hell in both situations the werewolves don't survive long >.>

Anvil is largely irrelevant, the Assembly is a bunch of jerkwads who are still interesting to uncovering it again [and do manage to unlock the secret again in the epilogue].
Mages also is pretty irrelevant, there's going to be a new first enchanter, and the circle will rebuild under the templars, again.  The circle would have just suffered heavy loses, which it did anyway if you saved it.

The elves, I'd really question how long term relevance there were, it's not as if there won't be other clans traveling around, but I don't see much 'importance' here either way, unless they want to make the same dalish clan show up again.

I only really see three real points of validation: Morrigan's child [the largest issue I think, and the one most likly to get a canon answer of some sort, even if it's just implying that Riordan possibly was convinced into the necessity of her plan], who gets the throne [and that does feel somewhat marginal although Alistair's epilogue seemed to indicate a longer term, but change of venue still doesn't mandate an answer], who kills the Archdemon [really not too important, if we change the cast].

[Cade Darkspear]

TremCenwyth wrote...

Cade Darkspear wrote...

for players that did not help Morrigan

Oh my! For players who did not help Morrigan! Oh, poor Morrigan! How could we not "help" her? Help her by having her sire her demonspawn baby for personal gain? That would essentially make the entire quest meaningless. It would all be for naught. That would have been like coming to the end of LoTR and having Frodo and company hold on to the ring instead of destroying it, you know, just in case it comes in handy in the future. So the very idea that she would have even asked that of me at the end, after all we have been through, was a huge slap in the face. It just went to show how she hasn't changed one bit for all the time that we have travelled together. She would rather all of our efforts have gone to WASTE and risk everything, including the future of Ferelden, for personal gain.

By using the word "help" I merely meant to say assist her. I did choose to romance her but obviously she's a complete b**** just using you for her own means as can be seen when she just decides to up and run out on you after all you did to save her life (assuming you did indeed kill Flemeth). The main point of my post was that if there was to be a direct sequel then the whole baby possessed by an Old God thing seems to be most compelling setup for the character to run off and save the world again. After all the taint may be removed from the Old God after the ritual, but technically they were evil to begin with by turning people away from the Maker.

TremCenwyth wrote...

And now let's get to the part concerning Morrigan specifically. First of all, she is a poorly written character among other brilliantly written and beautiful characters. Her entire character and reason for existence can be wrapped up in one simple phrase: "hurr, I'm evil." Even Loghain was more human than she was -- it could even be argued that Loghain had good intentions. A case of the ends not justifying the means and such. But Morrigan? No, sorry, she's about as interesting as your typical sociopath.

As for Morrigan being a poorly written character because she has evil motives and does not act like a typical human, how could someone raised by Flemeth alone in the woods possibly turn out to be anything but evil. Many times in the "friendlier" conversations with her it becomes quite apparent that she has no idea how to respond in a decent manner to another person. That is just who she is, and in my opinion (let the flaming of this opinion begin) she is better written than say Alistair who seems to not know what he wants other than to run away from responsibilities until they are thrust upon him in the very end. He seems more of a comic-relief character that only turns into the heroic companion in the very end.

Anyway making any sort of canon ending is a sure-fire way to ****** lots of people off so lets see some evil baby DLC!!

Modifié par Cade Darkspear, 13 novembre 2009 - 06:07 .

[marshalleck]

TremCenwyth wrote...

-------------

And now let's get to the part concerning Morrigan specifically. First of all, she is a poorly written character among other brilliantly written and beautiful characters. Her entire character and reason for existence can be wrapped up in one simple phrase: "hurr, I'm evil." Even Loghain was more human than she was -- it could even be argued that Loghain had good intentions. A case of the ends not justifying the means and such. But Morrigan? No, sorry, she's about as interesting as your typical sociopath.

Let's take a look at this for example:

Cade Darkspear wrote...

for players that did not help Morrigan

Oh my! For players who did not help Morrigan! Oh, poor Morrigan! How could we not "help" her? Help her by having her sire her demonspawn baby for personal gain? That would essentially make the entire quest meaningless. It would all be for naught. That would have been like coming to the end of LoTR and having Frodo and company hold on to the ring instead of destroying it, you know, just in case it comes in handy in the future. So the very idea that she would have even asked that of me at the end, after all we have been through, was a huge slap in the face. It just went to show how she hasn't changed one bit for all the time that we have travelled together. She would rather all of our efforts have gone to WASTE and risk everything, including the future of Ferelden, for personal gain.

I'm playing an evil character on my second playthrough and I'm "helping" Morrigan out alright -- you know those Dalish elves you encounter in the Brecilian forest? Well, she cheered me on as I decided to slaughter every last one of them. Is this the great character you want to be "helping"? Oh, poor Morrigan! Morrigan is not someone to be "helped" -- she's someone to be sided with. And if you side with her then it's clear that your loyalties do not lie with the future of Ferelden, or with the allies that you have made -- but with some sociopath hell-bent on self-preservation and empowerment. But hey, at least she has huge breasts, amirite? HURR HURR

------------

Sure are a lot of assumptions about Morrigan's plans and motivations in here! You must be privy to design documents nobody else has seen!

And just for the record, who says your loyalties should  lay with saving the world and being everyone's hero? Have you not gone through all the origin stories? Some of them rather force the entire situation on the player's character, whether they want to become a Warden or not. They owe Ferelden nothing beyond slaying the Archdemon, and I would question even that for some of them.

Modifié par marshalleck, 13 novembre 2009 - 06:06 .

[TremCenwyth]

Cade Darkspear wrote...

As for Morrigan being a poorly written character because she has evil motives...

She's not poorly written because she has "evil" motivations. She's poorly written because she's poorly written. She's flat, 2-dimensional, there's nothing to her beside self-empowerment and bloodlust. Case in point, here is how my evil playthrough has gone:

Me: Hey, I'm going to slaughter all these elves now.
Morrigan: Yes, that's a great idea!

Me: Hey, I'm going to slaughter what's left of the Circle Mages here.
Morrigan: Yes, that's a great idea!

Me: Hey, I'm going to leave these townsfolk to die now.
Morrigan: Yes, that's a great idea!

Even when there is seemingly no reason besides bloodlust for her to agree, she cheers me on. Take the mages for example -- you would think that she of all people, an apostate, would not delight in having me doing the Templar's dirty work, even if she does disagree with how the Circle basically imprisons its mages. But hey, I guess if we're spilling the blood of everyone we come into contact with, Morrigan sure is happy. That's how it goes. Kill everything in your path without discrimination, without a second thought or without any consideration for strategy and tact in mind, and Morrigan praises you every step of the way. And other characters are just not this predictable. Alistair, for example, typically appreciates showing mercy to those he meets, but there are exceptions made due to his character and background (blood mages and Loghain, to name a couple). Is Morrigan even THAT complex? No, because with her it's open season on everyone, even if there are strategic reasons to come to a different solution.

A "villain" who kills everything in her path for seemingly no reason aside from the fact that she is "evil" so she "has to" is not a well-written character, sorry. For the record, I think Loghain is a much better written character. I have such difficulty even pegging him as an "evil" character because he has so many shades of grey to him. And yet he is, and he isn't. There's your well-written character.

-----------

And yes, I think Alistair is a much more complicated and rich character. He struggles with his birthright, he is of noble blood yet has lived among common folk, and he is a character who actually HAS the capacity for growth in this game, assuming you let him grow. In the span of this game he can go from being a boy running from his responsibility and birthright, to a just and even-handed man fit to lead a people.

Where does Morrigan end up if you follow her story to its end? Exactly where she began -- she takes power in the form of the child and leaves you, essentially having gotten exactly what she wanted. You, and the travels that the two of you have gone through, have not changed her in the slightest.

But that's just my opinion. You're certainly welcome to yours.

[TremCenwyth]

marshalleck wrote...

And just for the record, who says your loyalties should  lay with saving the world and being everyone's hero?

I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying that you should KNOW where you stand if you impregnate her. And the reason I say this is because I have seen a lot of sugar-coating from people that goes basically something like this:

"Well, there was going to be another blight anyway!"

Sorry, but the whole "it would have happened anyway" does not excuse one's actions in any moral situation. If you choose to impregnate her, then you should be well aware and content in the fact that you chose to side with the darkspawn against Ferelden. And not even Loghain, for all the talk of him being an "evil" character, would have done that.

[TremCenwyth]

damn, double-posted by accident.. trying to find a way to delete this second post..

Modifié par TremCenwyth, 13 novembre 2009 - 07:04 .

[Cade Darkspear]

TremCenwyth wrote...

I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying that you should KNOW where you stand if you impregnate her. And the reason I say this is because I have seen a lot of sugar-coating...

After further thought on this matter, I don't suppose there could be a direct sequel or DLC about it.  Wouldn't really make sense to agree to create a new threat to the world only to go off to save the world from said threat.

My eyes are now open Morrigan's utter psychoticness so forget her.  I'm taking Oghren up on those drunken offers instead!

[marshalleck]

TremCenwyth wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

And just for the record, who says your loyalties should  lay with saving the world and being everyone's hero?

I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying that you should KNOW where you stand if you impregnate her. And the reason I say this is because I have seen a lot of sugar-coating from people that goes basically something like this:

"Well, there was going to be another blight anyway!"

Sorry, but the whole "it would have happened anyway" does not excuse one's actions in any moral situation. If you choose to impregnate her, then you should be well aware and content in the fact that you chose to side with the darkspawn against Ferelden. And not even Loghain, for all the talk of him being an "evil" character, would have done that.

How do you know? If there's a Codex entry in the game that explains exactly what happens when an Archdemon dies, I must have missed it somehow. Morrigan indicates that the spirit (for lack of a better word) is free from the taint of the darkspawn. The child will be supernatural yes, but not darkspawn.

If I somehow missed critical plot information, please enlighten me. Otherwise the outcome of the child and the implications of the player's choice is pure speculation.