84 réponses à ce sujet

[TremCenwyth]

marshalleck wrote...

Otherwise the outcome of the child and the implications of the player's choice is pure speculation.

Yes, we can't possibly know EXACTLY what will happen, but you've essentially left the future of Ferelden to a coin-toss. That is, in its essence, not much different than siding with the darkspawn against Ferelden. No man who truly cared for Ferelden and was in a position to protect her would leave her future up to a coin-toss if it could be at all avoided.

Do you think Loghain would have left the future of Ferelden to such a coin-toss? He would have had your head for even contemplating the notion.

[Jersey75639]

I'll just stay out of the way of the raging guy with the white dreads.

[TremCenwyth]

Jersey75639 wrote...

I'll just stay out of the way of the raging guy with the white dreads.

I've tried to be as civil as possible in this discussion. I'm not exactly hurling insults at people or anything.. just explaining where I stand and why.

Perhaps I should throw in some smilies in the future to assure people that I'm not RAGING WITH ANGER at them or anything. :happy:

I'm just really glad that Bioware has given me a game where I can be this emotionally attached to the characters and the story. I'm sure we can all agree on that one.

[Jersey75639]

First of all, you have every right to your opinion that Morrigan is an evil bloodthirsty ****. To an extent (besides the evil part; because good and evil is really subjective, and I feel like the only real 'evil' anywhere in this game is the darkspawn), you're probably right, but the character is not that way simply for the purpose of being such.



In the example of the circle magi, she sees them as getting what they deserve for allowing themselves to be caged as they are, and all of them see her as an evil malificar apostate anyways, so what should she care what happens to them? It's much easier to simply follow through with the Rite of Annulment.



If you want her to show some sort of empathy for a fellow mage, she does support freeing Jowan when you find him in Redcliffe.



Being raised in a forest, I can see where she would feel more empathy to the forest spirit and the werewolves than she would for the elves; and you can go on all you like about how killing is wrong, but ever since you left Ostagar most likely you've been killing many, many men that got in your way, not just darkspawn. What difference are those men and the elves to her? The werewolves are probably even stronger allies than the dalish would be, and you still get help with the battle, which is your main purpose in coming there, not setting everything right.



You are given the option to help defend the town, risking yourselves and your mission to hold an indefensible location of no strategic importance that they abandon to the darkspawn first thing before you even get there your second time in Redcliffe.



Also, sure, if you go through with the ritual, there could be consequences down the road. Consequences that you would possibly be alive to help deal with, which you would not be if you killed the archdemon without it. There aren't even any guarantees that Ferelden's troubles would be over if you killed the archdemon and sacrificed yourself; it would put an end to the Blight, but there would still be thousands of darkspawn roaming around wreaking havoc, albeit with a less focused will.



How you view the characters is entirely up to you and you have a right to your opinion, as anyone else does. Still, preaching about 'morrigan worship' and then going on about how much development Alistair goes through is a bit hypocritical, in my opinion. In your game, perhaps Alistair made leaps of development; in someone else's, he spent the whole game whining and threw a giant temper tantrum at the end when they considered trying to let Loghain redeem himself. In your game, Morrigan was unrepentant and never thought twice about using you for her own ends; in someone else's, she was conflicted over the choice she knew she would have to make.



Everything is open to interpretation. And I do agree that this is a hell of a game that really gets you emotionally attached to the characters, both yours and the npcs.

[EDarkness]

TremCenwyth wrote...

Cade Darkspear wrote...

As for Morrigan being a poorly written character because she has evil motives...

She's not poorly written because she has "evil" motivations. She's poorly written because she's poorly written. She's flat, 2-dimensional, there's nothing to her beside self-empowerment and bloodlust. Case in point, here is how my evil playthrough has gone:

Me: Hey, I'm going to slaughter all these elves now.
Morrigan: Yes, that's a great idea!

Me: Hey, I'm going to slaughter what's left of the Circle Mages here.
Morrigan: Yes, that's a great idea!

Me: Hey, I'm going to leave these townsfolk to die now.
Morrigan: Yes, that's a great idea!

Even when there is seemingly no reason besides bloodlust for her to agree, she cheers me on. Take the mages for example -- you would think that she of all people, an apostate, would not delight in having me doing the Templar's dirty work, even if she does disagree with how the Circle basically imprisons its mages. But hey, I guess if we're spilling the blood of everyone we come into contact with, Morrigan sure is happy. That's how it goes. Kill everything in your path without discrimination, without a second thought or without any consideration for strategy and tact in mind, and Morrigan praises you every step of the way. And other characters are just not this predictable. Alistair, for example, typically appreciates showing mercy to those he meets, but there are exceptions made due to his character and background (blood mages and Loghain, to name a couple). Is Morrigan even THAT complex? No, because with her it's open season on everyone, even if there are strategic reasons to come to a different solution.

A "villain" who kills everything in her path for seemingly no reason aside from the fact that she is "evil" so she "has to" is not a well-written character, sorry. For the record, I think Loghain is a much better written character. I have such difficulty even pegging him as an "evil" character because he has so many shades of grey to him. And yet he is, and he isn't. There's your well-written character.

-----------

And yes, I think Alistair is a much more complicated and rich character. He struggles with his birthright, he is of noble blood yet has lived among common folk, and he is a character who actually HAS the capacity for growth in this game, assuming you let him grow. In the span of this game he can go from being a boy running from his responsibility and birthright, to a just and even-handed man fit to lead a people.

Where does Morrigan end up if you follow her story to its end? Exactly where she began -- she takes power in the form of the child and leaves you, essentially having gotten exactly what she wanted. You, and the travels that the two of you have gone through, have not changed her in the slightest.

But that's just my opinion. You're certainly welcome to yours.

I totally agree with you, man.  I was hoping that at some point she'd bend a little, but that never happens.  To be honest, I figured that was the point of having her in the group, especially as the principle love interest.  Basically, we don't get to see that change, but with everyone else we get to witness their transformation as we progress.  I won't lie, I was hoping Morrigan and I could live happily ever after...overcoming the odds and finding some kind of life together, but the end is...ugh.

On the other side, I really like Wynne, and I could totally understand her motivations and they were closer to mine.  However, when she jumped on me about Morrigan, I had this determination to prove her wrong, but in the end she was right and there was no real way to change that. 

I'm hoping that there is another story or DLC that allows us to really explore Morrigan's motivations as well as possibly getting some kind of happy ending on that front.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.

[Wugger]

I think it varies depending on what kind of character you have and what eneding your happy with.



For instance, as my character was selfless and heroic, it seemed fitting that he sacrifice himself and put Alistair on the throne.

[Walina]

I think it's wrong to have an ending where you have to sleep with Morrigan if you want everybody to live! For god sake, how can it be possible ?! What kind of sh!t did the dev smoke ? It's so wrong when you don't play a character who doesn't go out with her!



Does it mean that in DaO 2, you will play her baby ?!! A half human demon?!

I really hope not! Or I will never play again this game!

[Vilegrim]

think on this, what if Morrigan is the way she is partly because of who raised her and where, and partly because she doesn't want you to like her? She has a very specific mission, worth considering, no?

[Walina]

That has nothing to do with the fact you've to sleep with her since there is no othe way to "save" everyone.

You're talking about her personality, I am talking about "endings" because I am pretty sure you can still sleep with her when she hates you since it's how the story is written to "save" everyone

Modifié par Walina, 13 novembre 2009 - 12:03 .

[Blastaz]

Isn't the whole point about it being a dark fantasy world that there isn't really a happy ending?

[Vilegrim]

Walina wrote...

That has nothing to do with the fact you've to sleep with her since there is no othe way to "save" everyone.

You're talking about her personality, I am talking about "endings" because I am pretty sure you can still sleep with her when she hates you since it's how the story is written to "save" everyone

there is no way to have a happy ending with Morrigan, (damn you BW gief a sequel/DLC so I can find her again!) seeing under her shell in the romance plots is the most involving part of the game for me, 3 plythroughs so far, and no matter what I intend I always get drawn back into the Morrigan romance 

[EDarkness]

Blastaz wrote...

Isn't the whole point about it being a dark fantasy world that there isn't really a happy ending?

I don't think so.  I always think of dark fantasy as being dark because of the circumstances and bad things happen more often.  That doesn't mean you can't have a "happy" ending.  I'm not talking about roses and butterflies, but you can get the girl and have things work out as well as they can.  Nothing perfect, but at least you can walk away from the story feeling like something was accomplished and feel good about it.  When I get to the end of a story and don't feel satisfied, then there is a problem.

[Lil-Vinny29]

I personally think its an interesting alternative, you and Alistair wants to survive to recruit more Wardens after the blight. Riordan is dead trying so its down to only 2 in all Ferelden, so I think for the time being, its a nice offer of Morrigan to save another soul although theres no telling what she'll do, she tried to reassure Alistair to some extent. Im sure its all part of Dragon Age 2

[syllogi]

I've only played female characters, and didn't find Morrigan one dimensional at all, personally. In fact, on my first playthrough, as a good character, since I didn't take her with me anywhere, all I had to do to get a nearly full approval bar was to talk to her and ply her with gifts. If you play it that way, Morrigan seems like a person who is genuinely touched by your attempts at friendship, and you don't *have* to do anything evil to get to that point. I went to kill Flemeth for her because I wanted to help her, and it didn't feel forced or unrealistic.



As for her approval of evil acts, Morrigan was raised by a woman who used her as bait for killing templars when she was a little girl, and called it a game. When she stole the pretty mirror, her mother smashed it and considered it a lesson. Saying that it's all she knows would be putting it mildly.



Also, as a female character, remember that if you romance Alistair, you are put in the position of either letting him die to save you in the final battle, or having him do the deed with Morrigan. Morrigan also claims that her intentions with the Old-God-Baby are not necessarily evil, so to me this didn't seem like a black or white choice. Much like choosing Anora or Alistair, or Harrowmont or Bhelen, baby or no baby may be a good, bad, or meh kind of thing.



All I hope, if there is a canon ending (and I kind of hope that they do take a defined path and show us what happens to Morrigan), Alistair is king. He's pretty much my favorite Bioware character ever, and it would be a shame if he had to go out like that.

[Jaredh]

We had a theory in our group and in the old bioware forum.

We think it might possible that there will be "origin stories" based on the decision you made when you talked to Allistair/Anora after the crowning.

It would gave them the perfect oportunity to import all your choices from DA:O to the sequel.

And we think that a child from Morrigan wouldn't play a major role because 1) not everyone chose that path and 2) your character has only about ~20 years to live. So there is not much space for a child to grow up an take over a major part.

The main storyline would be completely independent from that choices.

But we'll see wich way bioware will take this. I would be ok with all of these theories

[Walina]

Blastaz wrote...

Isn't the whole point about it being a dark fantasy world that there isn't really a happy ending?

I think the dev should have let us the choice about how you want to "save" everyone.
(A dark fantasy doesn't mean to let your "lover" cheat on you, who the hell will like this in real life ? I would rather prefer kill Morrigan or sacrifice my mage instead going against my moral).

I mean : what's the point of a romance in this game if all you gt in the end is your character dying or your "lover" dying or Alistair leaving or Loghain dying (who the hell will want that man in his team when he tried o kill you all the way around?!) and last option sleep with Morrigan...

You call that a choice ? Beside sleeping with Morrigan all the other options will lead you to "death" and if you choose to sleep with her won't be against all you fought in the game ? (Ok maybe you played a big jerk so it's ok for you this ending).

I would have prefered to beleive that dev will give a "gift" to players who will have worked their ass to complete all the quests (well mostly the compnions side-quests) and so those players who have the choice to have a happy ending.

Otherwise the dating system is totally pointless because whatever you do you will end up bad in the end. That's what I hate the most!

A dark fantasy for me is a story who will tell mature things a story for adults but it really doesn't have to end this way.

I already know how I will the game, I will sacrifice my mage, better than other options. It's sad because the story o DAO became meaningless this way. Be a grey warden, I can't find anything to be proud in because i still think that even a warrior who gone to Irak can become happy when he come back home and built a family.

Yes, DAO has nothing to d with reality but I am someone who prefer this ending than having to tell soldiers : cheat on your wife if you wanna go back home or else go die or let your companions dies for your sake. And that's not the case! That''s why people still go to war because they truly think in their heart they will come back home.

So yeah, I am dispointed knowing how the game end, it's all against the story line and romance system.

Modifié par Walina, 13 novembre 2009 - 04:19 .

[Jaredh]

I think all the endings are as perfect as they could be. Most of them are sad but that's what made them so special.

This is what David Gaider told us in the old forum

"I'm just gonna go ahead and say that you don't really want that, even if you think you do"

And of course he's right.

[Alynna_tp]

The only thing I have to add here is letting the ritual take place ensures that Alistair doesn't have to worry about the taint if he is made king. A hero might think of that as good for Ferelden and take that route.



I believe that if there is a sequel they will establish some kind of canon ending. As for my opinion of what that would be?



Alistair being king doesn't HAVE to be canon. Anora can rule alone and Alistair can either sacrifice himself or survive to help rebuild the Grey Wardens. Though after playing the game it FEELS like the intended ending is to have him as king, and that he survives the blight to rule.

[Jaredh]

Sorry but there is no intended ending.

And Allistair is still tainted after the ritual. Right now there is now way to become untainted.

Chosing the ritual is the best if you romanced Allistair and still want to live with him in the epilogue.

The alternative isn't that healthy for you or him.

[Mesecina]

Jaredh wrote...

We think it might possible that there will be "origin stories" based on the decision you made when you talked to Allistair/Anora after the crowning.
And we think that a child from Morrigan wouldn't play a major role because 1) not everyone chose that path and 2) your character has only about ~20 years to live. So there is not much space for a child to grow up an take over a major part.
The main storyline would be completely independent from that choices.
But we'll see wich way bioware will take this. I would be ok with all of these theories

That's exactly what I was thinking - if you and Alistair are king/queen they will just refer to you with different title and maybe toss in a side quest or two based on what role you assumed in the end by your choice.

The only problem I have with this is what if you're dead? In Ferelden there doesn't seem to be a lot of "coming back from the dead" cases and let's not forget you even had a funeral in case you were counting on some benevolent spirit to posses you (much like Wynne).

However I'm sure of one thing Morrigan or Flemeth or both will play a pretty major role.

[Jaredh]

If you sacrificed yourself you'll have to create a new character which will come to the group (If they decide to take the old crew and I wish that they do that)
The guys at bioware are all geniuses so one thing is pretty clear. They will give us an awesome explenation why things happened the way they did.
For now we can only have fun making our own theories =)

Modifié par Jaredh, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:05 .

[RazorrX]

The ONLY Thing I hope for is not another letdown like with Aribeth. Choosing 1 option from something that polarizes the community ends up being bad.



I would much much prefer to have DA:2 be a completely different storyline than pick up where this one ended because if they say Morrigan had the demon child then they wipe out all the people who did the sacrifice. IF Loghain is alive they ****** off 50% of the players (as it seems to be a divide between hate and love in that guy). Far better to pick the path that nullifies the least amount of choices.

[RavenholmeCP42]

On the note of endings: If I take Loghain, I know Alistair leaves my party in a huff... can I still make him King though?

[MistressMagee]

I am hoping for the old god baby ending going through, as in you live and Alistair is King, (the Queen back stabbed us and she was locked in the tower when the **** hit the fan in the palace, I am assuming she became darkspawn meat). I would love for the continuation actually working off of your past decisions, not sure how that is going to work out though game mechanic wise. Perhaps it will be part of this two years of DLC they are talking about? As in, not another game all together, but post arcdemon content. I REALLY want to travel around and do some research into the darkspawn all together as a mage, travel around looking for the Travintum, seems like the thing my character would do.



my ending was interesting though. I played a homosexual human male mage, pretty much had everyone up to 100 friendly points and what not, even after stumbling into a romance with the Liliana and breaking her heart. When I befriended Morrigan she truly sounded sad to discover she sort of missed her chance with me with my "Maybe something could have been between us if circumstances were different." She sounded like she was holding back tears, it was awesome (as in great acting).



I traveled the world with Zev (as the "woman" that he loved... way to go Bioware lol) while looking for Morrigan, The mages governed themselves, elves move up in society, the only ending I messed up was the dwarves, which I thought was a nice touch given that Harrorwhathisname seemed like the right choice. I think Oghdan needed more work but he stuck around in the army with the humans, Shale got what she wanted though and served her people by fighting darkspawn. My character took an interest in the old god and dabbled in blood magic, it seemed very fitting for my character to toss in my lot with ancient gods and magics. I REALLY want to learn more about the darkspawn and look for a way to "cleanse" the old gods, spirits, whatever. and seeing how Morrigan really lightened up for me, I don't think she is going to do what her mother did/wanted to do. Freaky god children are awesome anyway, and if you played female you can convince Alistar to heir the god-child, which is also an awesome possibility. Go bastard children, lol.

[Jaredh]

They're already using the mechanic in ME2. You can use your savegames from ME1 so your choices will be taken over to the 2nd part.