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[Tazzmission]

Lyssistr wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Just to note that ufo stands for unidentified flying object and not aliens.

UK government has opened its ufo file for some months now, most cases were solved and the unsolved ones are ufos in the sense that they didn't manage to identify the flying object, not in the sense that it was of alien origin.

without having read the files of these governments, I'm sure they acknowledge some ufos as it is next to impossible to identify the source of every radar signal. This however doesn't remotely mean it's of alien origin.

let me break down the ufo debate if i can my friend. 90% of ufo sightings are indeed  experimental military craft and thats a fact, but the other 10% are indeed real ufos. air force pilots came out and said on life tv that yes life exist and also we as humanity have indeed captured such technology to replicate. this was from 2001

I appreciate you have your views on the topic, however "real ufos" are just objects that have not been identified, they're not flying saucers piloted by a green guy with two antennas stuck onto his head.

There are a couple of scientific projects such as SETI (to which btw you can contribute by giving away a couple of cpu cycles if you run seti @ home) whose task is to find extra-terrestrial intelligent life and one day they may succeed in their goal. However as it stands now, there is no serious evidence to suggest somebody knows that intelligent alien life forms exist, even more so that they have visited earth.

seti and nasa are scams .... ask yourself this why would the government fund nasa if they (( havent found life)) what is it in space that tax payer money is funding to send up there? if anything i believe science was fabricated when it comes to how we veiw are planets in our galaxy. what better way to con the american people is to literaly write and say oh venus cant have life it has a toxic atmosphere or jupiter cant sustain life because of god knows what? for all we know what we know as our galaxy can have life booming .

Modifié par Tazzmission, 11 octobre 2010 - 03:57 .

[Lyssistr]

Tazzmission wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Just to note that ufo stands for unidentified flying object and not aliens.

UK government has opened its ufo file for some months now, most cases were solved and the unsolved ones are ufos in the sense that they didn't manage to identify the flying object, not in the sense that it was of alien origin.

without having read the files of these governments, I'm sure they acknowledge some ufos as it is next to impossible to identify the source of every radar signal. This however doesn't remotely mean it's of alien origin.

let me break down the ufo debate if i can my friend. 90% of ufo sightings are indeed  experimental military craft and thats a fact, but the other 10% are indeed real ufos. air force pilots came out and said on life tv that yes life exist and also we as humanity have indeed captured such technology to replicate. this was from 2001

I appreciate you have your views on the topic, however "real ufos" are just objects that have not been identified, they're not flying saucers piloted by a green guy with two antennas stuck onto his head.

There are a couple of scientific projects such as SETI (to which btw you can contribute by giving away a couple of cpu cycles if you run seti @ home) whose task is to find extra-terrestrial intelligent life and one day they may succeed in their goal. However as it stands now, there is no serious evidence to suggest somebody knows that intelligent alien life forms exist, even more so that they have visited earth.

seti and nasa are scams .... ask yourself this why would the government fund nasa if they (( havent found life)) what is it in space that tax payer money is funding to send up there? if anything i believe science was fabricated when it comes to how we veiw are planets in our galaxy. what better way to con the american people is to literaly write and say oh venus cant have life it has a toxic atmosphere or jupiter cant sustain life because of god knows what? your led to believe what they ( the government)) want you to believe if you can find an answer to why we continue funding space missions to continue to (( searth for et life)) explain why space has more of a investment instead of studying the deepest parts of earths oceans

Well in that case you can buy (or make your own) radio astronomy equipment & telescopes to see for yourself. There is a thriving community of amateur astronomers and while I don't think their motives are similar to yours, taking up this hobby will answer all your questions about space, at least to the extent that your equipment allows it.

[Tazzmission]

Lyssistr wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Just to note that ufo stands for unidentified flying object and not aliens.

UK government has opened its ufo file for some months now, most cases were solved and the unsolved ones are ufos in the sense that they didn't manage to identify the flying object, not in the sense that it was of alien origin.

without having read the files of these governments, I'm sure they acknowledge some ufos as it is next to impossible to identify the source of every radar signal. This however doesn't remotely mean it's of alien origin.

let me break down the ufo debate if i can my friend. 90% of ufo sightings are indeed  experimental military craft and thats a fact, but the other 10% are indeed real ufos. air force pilots came out and said on life tv that yes life exist and also we as humanity have indeed captured such technology to replicate. this was from 2001

I appreciate you have your views on the topic, however "real ufos" are just objects that have not been identified, they're not flying saucers piloted by a green guy with two antennas stuck onto his head.

There are a couple of scientific projects such as SETI (to which btw you can contribute by giving away a couple of cpu cycles if you run seti @ home) whose task is to find extra-terrestrial intelligent life and one day they may succeed in their goal. However as it stands now, there is no serious evidence to suggest somebody knows that intelligent alien life forms exist, even more so that they have visited earth.

seti and nasa are scams .... ask yourself this why would the government fund nasa if they (( havent found life)) what is it in space that tax payer money is funding to send up there? if anything i believe science was fabricated when it comes to how we veiw are planets in our galaxy. what better way to con the american people is to literaly write and say oh venus cant have life it has a toxic atmosphere or jupiter cant sustain life because of god knows what? your led to believe what they ( the government)) want you to believe if you can find an answer to why we continue funding space missions to continue to (( searth for et life)) explain why space has more of a investment instead of studying the deepest parts of earths oceans

Well in that case you can buy (or make your own) radio astronomy equipment & telescopes to see for yourself. There is a thriving community of amateur astronomers and while I don't think their motives are similar to yours, taking up this hobby will answer all your questions about space, at least to the extent that your equipment allows it.

ok you know everything right? explain the christopher columbus ufo sighting he himself recorded in his journal back in 1492

[Tazzmission]

explain the columbus 1492 sighting. keep in mind back then no light houses or planes at that time

[Tazzmission]

ufos with jesus during crusifixtion

[Lyssistr]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

Usually with these type of things I would throw out a detailed counter argument against some of these silly claims but I'm not really in the mood at the moment. Instead...

Anyway I'm curious has anyone here actually had the experience of seeing a UFO in person or what have you?

You don't have a cat in your house, now do you! 

Edit: the alien kitty pics were deleted as spam

Modifié par Lyssistr, 11 octobre 2010 - 04:49 .

[Pacifien]

You can participate in the discussion in a civil manner or you can move on. The spam images are a no-go, so they'll be deleted. The pyramid quotes are annoying, so stop it.

[Lyssistr]

Adriano87 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

You can participate in the discussion in a civil manner or you can move on. The spam images are a no-go, so they'll be deleted. The pyramid quotes are annoying, so stop it.

I hope you don't consider this Archeological evidence as spam

Kitties and dogs were the collateral damage, ancient sightings are always respected. 

[Sadinar]

Pacifien wrote...

You can participate in the discussion in a civil manner or you can move on. The spam images are a no-go, so they'll be deleted. The pyramid quotes are annoying, so stop it.

So it IS a conspiracy!

[Lyssistr]

Sadinar wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

You can participate in the discussion in a civil manner or you can move on. The spam images are a no-go, so they'll be deleted. The pyramid quotes are annoying, so stop it.

So it IS a conspiracy!

cats and dawgs have hired humans, we're doomed:alien:

[Sadinar]

Lyssistr wrote...
cats and dawgs have hired humans, we're doomed:alien:

You are assuming that he is human, but his interloping makes my shiney hat itch.... I smell a cat!

[Elhanan]

I believe in unidentified flying objects; just not so much in extraterrestial lifeforms with the intellect to build space craft.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Creature of the Wheel wrote...

Alexander TM wrote...

Creature of the Wheel wrote...

william cooper wrote some real far out stuff. i've read all the stuff on that site. for some reason, i think there is a bit of truth to it. given his credentials, i doubt he'd have any reason to lie.

edgar mitchell also speaks about UFO's[/url]. near the bottom of the first page, he mentions that the "phoenix lights" incident wasn't the military's/our stuff.

i happened to have witnessed the "phoenix lights." whatever the hell was flying slowly in the night time sky....it was freaking enormous! there was practically no sound coming from it, either. just about everybody who was out and about, driving, or whatever, stopped and began staring at the sky. some people were freaking out. others were left speechless.

since then, i've witnessed many other things in the skies. fairly recently, i witnessed a single orange orb in the sky flying around. it then split off into 7 flying orbs. they then flew around in formation for a bit and then rejoined into a single unit. it then seemed to climb rapidly in altitude, disappearing into the night-time sky.

That sounds amazing. I wish I could've witnessed that.

the phoenix lights incident was awesome. people sitting in traffic at busy intersections were at a standstill. the lights were green and not a single person honked, or said anything. i had been standing at an intersection waiting for the walk sign to start flashing. some people even stopped in the intersection to get a look at the object in the sky.

drive around the four corners region enough times and you'll also see some crazy stuff in the night time sky. i don't think they're hostile. if they were, we wouldn't be here today.

The problem with UFO enthusiast sites is that they don't have very much of a critical eye when it comes to incidents of unidentified objects in the sky. They simply assume that anything unidentified must be an extraterrestrial craft, and if it isn't, that it is up to others to disprove the notion, rather than for them to provide positive evidence for their interpretation of the sighting.

Often even AFTER it's been completely, positively identified as something mundane or completely terrestrial in nature, if the sighting was particularly impressive, the information that it's been identified and was found not to be an extraterrestrial craft isn't spread on the UFO sites. Instead, the story just keeps going, and people that get their information exclusively from such sites, never find out the real story.

Here's a rather thorough analysis of the Phoenix lights, along with their identification - it's a podcast, so you can either listen, or read the trascript provided:

The Alien Invasion of Phoenix, Arizona

[Sadinar]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

The problem with UFO enthusiast sites is that they don't have very much of a critical eye when it comes to incidents of unidentified objects in the sky. They simply assume that anything unidentified must be an extraterrestrial craft, and if it isn't, that it is up to others to disprove the notion, rather than for them to provide positive evidence for their interpretation of the sighting.

Often even AFTER it's been completely, positively identified as something mundane or completely terrestrial in nature, if the sighting was particularly impressive, the information that it's been identified and was found not to be an extraterrestrial craft isn't spread on the UFO sites. Instead, the story just keeps going, and people that get their information exclusively from such sites, never find out the real story.

Here's a rather thorough analysis of the Phoenix lights, along with their identification - it's a podcast, so you can either listen, or read the trascript provided:

The Alien Invasion of Phoenix, Arizona

It seems to me that the phenomenon you are describing is another example of facts backfiring. As detailed here by Joe Keohane, presenting irrefutable evidence contradicting a fiercly held belief, especially in a judgmental or confrontational manner, does not disabuse mistaken individuals. In actuality, fully debunking the misinformation further hardens the persons existing incorrect belief.

It is a pretty interesting article and should shed some light on why arguing with the conspiracy group, no matter how well reasoned or how many facts provided, will not lead to anything.

The conspiracy kitty wants to come out and play again, but someone who uses green text won't let it!

Modifié par Sadinar, 11 octobre 2010 - 11:15 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

^ Yes, I'm familiar with that research. Human psychology is sometimes seriously screwed up.



Also, if a belief in something is strong enough, then presenting scientific studies to show that that belief is in error will generally not only lead to the strengthening of that belief, but an increased distrust of science. We humans are very connected to our beliefs, to a point of absurdity. We'd rather have our beliefs confirmed, even if they are in error, than have the error corrected.



That inate bias is why one should make a conscious effort to acknowledge it, and actually try and find evidence to contradict one's beliefs. That's how you test an idea - not, as people naturally do it, by searching for things that fit the idea, but by searching for things that contradict it. If you, after a thorough and honest bit of research, (no pulling punches) can't refute your idea, then it MIGHT be worth accepting... tentatively, subject to change with new evidence.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Adriano87 - you are too smart of a guy to take all that without a degree of skepticism.

Please read my post above - it seems you're falling for the very same trap that people so easily fall for. That is getting an idea in their heads, and then looking for supporting evidence, rather than looking to refute it.

You've read 8 books of Erich von Däniken, but how many have you read that contest his ideas?

If you only read the ideas of a proponent of a theory, if that proponent is a decent writer, you're bound to be impressed by his ideas. But if you want to get to the truth of an idea, you ALSO have to read material critical of those ideas.

As it stands, von Däniken's name causes serious archologist so sigh in frustration. If you are truly interested in what is real, and not just interested in confirming the ideas that you currently hold - in other words, if you value truth more than what you currently believe to be true, and recognize that you MIGHT be wrong (as anyone should be able to do), then you do critical research on ideas that you find attractive - critical thinking and proper research should be applied to all ideas, but ESPECIALLY those that you would like to believe. This because of the natural biases we humans all are subject to, which make us give more weight to confirmatory evidence than evidence against an idea.

A good starting spot for the critical investigation of the ideas that you currently accept as true, would be the Bad Archeology site

I recommend a thorough reading of at least the main articles of the site.

Here's their brief take on von Däniken.

Another site that is a good resource for the skeptical take on various claims is Skeptoid - search that site for "alien archeology", and listen to the relevant episodes. They tend to be thoroughly researched, and grounded in fact.

Also, to improve general skills of evaluation of evidence and arguments, I recommend the "Skepticism 101" episodes of the Skeptic's Guide 5x5 - they are episodes just 5 minutes long each, and they deal with various logical fallacies, and errors of thinking we all are subject to, but don't have to fall for, if we are aware of them, and if we bother with a conscious effort to catch ourselves when we're falling for them.

Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 11 octobre 2010 - 10:08 .

[Sadinar]

Adriano87 wrote...

@Sadinar, what? I have read 8 books of 'Erich von Däniken' and he has completely convinced me that in Early-Ancient Era and even older ages than that the Humans have had or were given higher technologies to build and create many Instruments and Structures that we cant believe it easily. For building Cheops Pyramid it needs more Workers, Food and Time than is written in the books. 20 ~ 30 years isn't enough to Build the most Huge Pyramid on Earth. it had to be built with helping Very Advanced Technology ... so Egyptians had it or got it from Aliens.
in Chile, Bolivia and Mexico are many evidences also. the Similarities between Mythologies which consist of return of the gods who had helped their people once ... and many more evidences support this Theory

As it pertains to the tendancy to further harden existing beliefs in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence, I fail to see how refering eight times to a source dedicated to spreading your belief does anything other than prove my point.

If it is unclear from my flippant behavior and previous statements, I am not interrested in debating the presence of extra-terrestrial entities on the earth of the present or the past.

Or is that just what the aliens are telling me to type?! Perhaps it is a desperate plea for help!