217 réponses à ce sujet

[Tazzmission]

AwesomeName wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Anyhow back to the topic, yes governments are indeed beginning to disclose their files on unidentified flying objects however this is something entirely different to an alien contact. Unidentified flying objects are just that, flying objects that were not identified.

This.  They wouldn't be UFO's if we knew they were alien/human/otherwise...

the government knows they are identified objects they just continue the unidentified label as a way to fool the people. and the truth is the government wont come out and admit it because there the ones who make the money from it. for all we know aliens could be working with them to develop such new technologies for our planet

[Tazzmission]

ask yourself this if the government themselves dont know what these are why would they give nasa the ok to basicly create rockets that simulate vimas from the hindu bible?

[Elhanan]

I saw a UFO for several minutes many years ago. However, what was discernable as a flashing light in the sky, blinking at an irregular pattern was actually a distant circling aircraft being partially blocked by a tree limb that was being blown by the wind. After I was able to ID the craft, I returned to sleep.

[Swordfishtrombone]

^ I agree with AwesomeName. Tazzmission, you really need to expand your sources of information to include those that DON'T support your beliefs. Learn why people reject the notions that you hold, and apply a critical eye to your own beliefs. Start by learning about errors of logic, and the variety of psychological errors we humans are prone to. The sources I listed some posts ago in this thread are a good place to start.



Open mindedness is the willingness to challenge your own ideas, not just the willingness to accept any old idea thrown at you if it sounds exiting. The latter is simply credulity, and is not a virtue.

[Fiery Phoenix]

ModestmeNTaLmogul wrote...

So what if aliens exist? are they a threat to us humans?

Finding life elsewhere in the universe, let alone intelligent life, would have one of the most profound and psychologically impacting effects in society. We are a diverse race by nature; we have all kinds of ideas, all kinds of theories, all kinds of minds. If it is proven and announced that other life has been found, it would mean nothing short of a revolution. We like to think of ourselves as powerful, confident, and aware of our surroundings, but a discovery as simple as alien life would render all these characteristics in which we have long believed remarkably less meaningful.

Who's to say our governments haven't made contact with an alien intelligence? Who's to say our governments don't know the truth behind UFO's? One way or the other, such a discovery is not one which can go public in a matter of days. If the government is hiding something like this, they're hiding it for a reason, and it's a good reason. We're more fragile than we'd like to admit.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 11 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[Tazzmission]

AwesomeName wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

ask yourself this if the government themselves dont know what these are why would they give nasa the ok to basicly create rockets that simulate vimas from the hindu bible?

Sigh... what are you suggesting?  It seems to me like you're determined to believe that it's utterly impossible for our species to make technological progress without aliens showing us how first...  Also, there's no such thing as a hindu bible...

Sorry dude, but I think you need a reality check

i never said ancient man was not smartbut i do believe they did have some form of help from a higher being or beings for that matter.  do you honestly believe the egytians woke up one morning bored and thought to themselves hey for the hell of it lets build the pyramids. the point of ancient alien theory is how did man come up with the idea for the things they did? did they do it on there own just from there mindset or did a higher intervention from aliens help give that idea? we know through out life itself that in order to drive a car what do you do? you have a instrcutor teach it to you than you slowly start doing it on your own, whos to say aliens didnt help the ancients get started? when people think aliens they think war of the worlds or independance day but what if these beings basicly helped us humans adapt and evolve throught technolgy people back then didnt understand?

Modifié par Tazzmission, 11 octobre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

^ FieryPhoenix7 - I don't find the notions that finding that there's extraterrestrial life would be somehow dramatically revolutionary and traumatizing to the public at all plausible. People would be exited for a while, and then go on with their lives, just like they do with every piece of surpricing news. If you look at history, dramatic revalations such as the discovery that our galaxy is just one among an uncountable number of galaxies, instead of containing all that there is as previously thought, didn't cause any mass panic, or get much more than a "wow, that's neat!" from the general public.

If aliens were really visiting us, there'd be no question about it. Don't see why the alien species would agree to keep it secret along with some terrestrial governments, and most of all, don't think that such a thing could possibly be kept secret, given human psychology.

That's the central flaw with all major conspiracy theories - they expect that a HUGE conspiracy, involving several governments (that change with each election) could somehow be kept secret, without any whistle blowers, without the whole thing imploding.

The difference between these sorts of conspiracy theories, and the actual conspiracies that have been proven, is simply scale. The larger the conspiracy, the more individuals it has to include, the less likely it is to remain a secret.

This particular conspiracy would have all the governments (again, with periodically changing members), AND the aliens determined, for some bizarre reason, to keep their involvement secret from the general public. The "to avoid a panic" is a ridiculous idea - people would not run amok at the idea that they're not alone. The way we receive dramatic news may be with initial shock, but we're not fragile - humans are quite resilient psychologically, as has been seen in pretty much all the natural dissasters various populations have faced. I'd like to see a single psychological study that would support the idea that finding that we're being visited by aliens would somehow result in mass hysteria so horrendous, that it would justify hiding the fact, and not only that, but to enable the creation of the most elaborate conspiracy ever.

What do they do when the government changes with election? Do all the different people that make up each government - who differ on pretty much every question imaginable, somehow all come to see that disclosing this bit of news would make humanity implode? With no government seeing that that's completely silly?

I don't find that even remotely plausible.

Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 11 octobre 2010 - 07:34 .

[Tazzmission]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

^ FieryPhoenix7 - I don't find the notions that finding that there's extraterrestrial life would be somehow dramatically revolutionary and traumatizing to the public at all plausible. People would be exited for a while, and then go on with their lives, just like they do with every piece of surpricing news. If you look at history, dramatic revalations such as the discovery that our galaxy is just one among an uncountable number of galaxies, instead of containing all that there is as previously thought, didn't cause any mass panic, or get much more than a "wow, that's neat!" from the general public.

If aliens were really visiting us, there'd be no question about it. Don't see why the alien species would agree to keep it secret along with some terrestrial governments, and most of all, don't think that such a thing could possibly be kept secret, given human psychology.

That's the central flaw with all major conspiracy theories - they expect that a HUGE conspiracy, involving several governments (that change with each election) could somehow be kept secret, without any whistle blowers, without the whole thing imploding.

The difference between these sorts of conspiracy theories, and the actual conspiracies that have been proven, is simply scale. The larger the conspiracy, the more individuals it has to include, the less likely it is to remain a secret.

This particular conspiracy would have all the governments (again, with periodically changing members), AND the aliens determined, for some bizarre reason, to keep their involvement secret from the general public. The "to avoid a panic" is a ridiculous idea - people would not run amok at the idea that they're not alone. The way we receive dramatic news may be with initial shock, but we're not fragile - humans are quite resilient psychologically, as has been seen in pretty much all the natural dissasters various populations have faced. I'd like to see a single psychological study that would support the idea that finding that we're being visited by aliens would somehow result in mass hysteria so horrendous, that it would justify hiding the fact, and not only that, but to enable the creation of the most elaborate conspiracy ever.

What do they do when the government changes with election? Do all the different people that make up each government - who differ on pretty much every question imaginable, somehow all come to see that disclosing this bit of news would make humanity implode? With no government seeing that that's completely silly?

I don't find that even remotely plausible.

when alien life is admited how would it not play a factor into things like archeology, history and even religion itself? truth is everything we would know would change and the real question is are people around the world willing to except that change in a civil manner?

[Fiery Phoenix]

For those interested, I have a couple of links about the pyramids and how they are believed to have been built. The two links are completely contradictory, however. I've had them saved for like two years now and they are very interesting.

Here:
http://www.outerworl...ens/aliens.html
http://www.math.wash...nber/PiPyr.html

EDIT: @Swordfishtrombone; what I was implying is simply what Tazz said right above, but I see where you're coming from regardless.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 11 octobre 2010 - 07:42 .

[grregg]

A discovery of alien life would absolutely be a factor in archeology, biology, history and so. And what was the last time you saw a government say "We must keep this horrible secret or there will be a revolution in archeology! Our people cannot handle such a change!"

[Tazzmission]

grregg wrote...

A discovery of alien life would absolutely be a factor in archeology, biology, history and so. And what was the last time you saw a government say "We must keep this horrible secret or there will be a revolution in archeology! Our people cannot handle such a change!"

i believe people can indeed handle the truth. the question we all need to ask is how will the government release the information? will they say yes aliens exist but there hostile? or will they say what im saying and that is there here to help advance humankind? we all know the roswell story right? what if i told you are lovley military shot that ufo down instead of it just accidently crashing? we as a species do indeed shoot first and ask questions later

[Swordfishtrombone]

Adriano87 wrote...

@ to all
whatever!
just there is two possibilities : 1) Advanced Civilizations (with Higher Technologies that we've thought)
2) Aliens on Earth at Ancient Times
X) No they couldn't create them with their simple hammers and shovels!
@Swordfishtrombone, but you haven't read them! there are so many evidences and traces ... and Mythological Part made me think a lot, because it is not a simple Imagination but they are the simplified describing from the Events that have changed over the time, but there is still similarities between them. Mythologies explain the very old times of Civilization, they are not not Christmas stories for kids! every Tribe and Kingdom have kept them because they were their sacred history.

Did you watch the video I embedded? It shows a simple proof of concept, how you can move massive weights with simple leverage, and a bit of ingenuity, with no modern tools. You can't really deny this, as you can see it happen with your own eyes, if you watch the video.

And for your knowledge, I used to believe all this stuff - I was quite the UFO enthusiast in my teens. Took me until my early 20s to actually start looking more closely at this stuff, and the more I looked, the more disillusioned I became with the "evidence". I have also studied some mythologies, and there's nothing there that is inconsistent with the sort of legends people naturally come up with. You REALLY need to read up on logical fallacies, and on human psychology that leads us to seek confirmatory evidence for our position, and reject or ignore evidence that doesn't fit with our beliefs. If you don't understand psychology, you become a slave to these errors, and are bound to end up with many beliefs that simply do not match reality.

Do the research - if you have specific alien archeology claims in mind, search the badarcheology site, search the skeptoid podcast site, search with google, adding the word "skeptical" or "skeptic", search skeptic's dictionary (www.skepdic.com), or even just look at a wikipedia article on the subject (they tend to be fairly good) to start out with.

If you don't do this research, and keep only reading material that will shore up your beliefs, of course you will be convinced, and remain convinced - quite irrespective of whether you are correct or incorrect. If you truly desire to know the truth of the matter, then you really have to challenge your ideas by exposing yourself to the criticism levelled against them.

Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 11 octobre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Druss99]

Tazzmission wrote...

when alien life is admited how would it not play a factor into things like archeology, history and even religion itself? truth is everything we would know would change and the real question is are people around the world willing to except that change in a civil manner?

Hang on there Tazz if its proven that aliens exist that doesn't automatically prove that they had anything to do with human evolution. Thats like me saying I once made sweet sweet love to Jessica Alba and using the fact that she exists as evidence.

[grregg]

Tazzmission wrote...

grregg wrote...

A discovery of alien life would absolutely be a factor in archeology, biology, history and so. And what was the last time you saw a government say "We must keep this horrible secret or there will be a revolution in archeology! Our people cannot handle such a change!"

i believe people can indeed handle the truth. the question we all need to ask is how will the government release the information? will they say yes aliens exist but there hostile? or will they say what im saying and that is there here to help advance humankind? we all know the roswell story right? what if i told you are lovley military shot that ufo down instead of it just accidently crashing? we as a species do indeed shoot first and ask questions later

Apologies but I do not understand what you are saying. Can you re-phrase?

[Tazzmission]

Druss99 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

when alien life is admited how would it not play a factor into things like archeology, history and even religion itself? truth is everything we would know would change and the real question is are people around the world willing to except that change in a civil manner?

Hang on there Tazz if its proven that aliens exist that doesn't automatically prove that they had anything to do with human evolution. Thats like me saying I once made sweet sweet love to Jessica Alba and using the fact that she exists as evidence.

actually yea it would because through out history and artifacts found archeologists have found statues that resembled what these people called gods.  theres a bucnh of artifacts found wich are in museums. so im just saying once aliens are admited to be real its gona change how we veiw archeoly, religion hell even science. the science community wont touch the ancient alien theory only because they are afraid to admit they dont have all the answers. same with archeology and religion

[Swordfishtrombone]

Tazzmission wrote...

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

^ FieryPhoenix7 - I don't find the notions that finding that there's extraterrestrial life would be somehow dramatically revolutionary and traumatizing to the public at all plausible. People would be exited for a while, and then go on with their lives, just like they do with every piece of surpricing news. If you look at history, dramatic revalations such as the discovery that our galaxy is just one among an uncountable number of galaxies, instead of containing all that there is as previously thought, didn't cause any mass panic, or get much more than a "wow, that's neat!" from the general public.

If aliens were really visiting us, there'd be no question about it. Don't see why the alien species would agree to keep it secret along with some terrestrial governments, and most of all, don't think that such a thing could possibly be kept secret, given human psychology.

That's the central flaw with all major conspiracy theories - they expect that a HUGE conspiracy, involving several governments (that change with each election) could somehow be kept secret, without any whistle blowers, without the whole thing imploding.

The difference between these sorts of conspiracy theories, and the actual conspiracies that have been proven, is simply scale. The larger the conspiracy, the more individuals it has to include, the less likely it is to remain a secret.

This particular conspiracy would have all the governments (again, with periodically changing members), AND the aliens determined, for some bizarre reason, to keep their involvement secret from the general public. The "to avoid a panic" is a ridiculous idea - people would not run amok at the idea that they're not alone. The way we receive dramatic news may be with initial shock, but we're not fragile - humans are quite resilient psychologically, as has been seen in pretty much all the natural dissasters various populations have faced. I'd like to see a single psychological study that would support the idea that finding that we're being visited by aliens would somehow result in mass hysteria so horrendous, that it would justify hiding the fact, and not only that, but to enable the creation of the most elaborate conspiracy ever.

What do they do when the government changes with election? Do all the different people that make up each government - who differ on pretty much every question imaginable, somehow all come to see that disclosing this bit of news would make humanity implode? With no government seeing that that's completely silly?

I don't find that even remotely plausible.

when alien life is admited how would it not play a factor into things like archeology, history and even religion itself? truth is everything we would know would change and the real question is are people around the world willing to except that change in a civil manner?

No, it would not factor into archeology, or history - to do that you'd need actual archeological evidence. To find that there are aliens does not somehow translate into "they messed with our history and evolution".

Religions would definitely be challenged, but history has shown that religions absorbe such blows without much problem - first they'll deny, and when they no longer can deny, they'll simply adjust their interpretation of their holy books to accommodate the new discovery. Before long, they'll be interpreting some passage as predicting the discovery of aliens.

Some religions, like Hinduism, would have no trouble at all accepting aliens, as they already believe in multiple worlds with many different kinds of creatures.

And this does not change at all what I said above about the PLAUSIBILITY of keeping such a secret. They could not do it, even if they wanted to, for the reasons outlined in my post above.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Tazzmission wrote...

...theres a bucnh of artifacts found wich are in museums. so im just saying once aliens are admited to be real its gona change how we veiw archeoly, religion hell even science. the science community wont touch the ancient alien theory only because they are afraid to admit they dont have all the answers. same with archeology and religion

No, the scientific community won't touch it, because those ideas aren't ever brought into the scientific arena, publiched for peer review, and subjected to the critical scrutiny of other experts. This is because the alien archology "theories" are pure pseudoscience, using haphazardly cherry picked, vaguelly suggestive notions as "proof" of alien visitation. They do not provide anything that would come close to matching the strict requirements of proper science, when it comes to evidece.

[grregg]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

(...)

And this does not change at all what I said above about the PLAUSIBILITY of keeping such a secret. They could not do it, even if they wanted to, for the reasons outlined in my post above.

Hear, hear...